AL, my experience is that tube-rolling is much more profound than power cables in SOME links. I have found that tubes in any component can contribute to dramatic sonic changes. However, with cables, my experience has been that there is a definite pecking order that make the greatest difference in a system.
Today I can replace the IC from line stage to amp with any number of highly reviewed ICs and render the system almost lifeless…..it's like putting in a SS line stage. No other cable link in the system affects the 3D performance even remotely close as this. Once I have this link performing well, do other cable changes and tube experimentations begin to make serious contributions.
The best way to learn how significant each cable is, or tube may be, is to first achieve a level of personal audio nirvana. For many of us, this takes years and years. Then go back to some of your previously used tubes and cables…..and, with only one change, swap in that one item. Document the sonic change. Replace with original and repeat with other tubes, or ICs or only one power cord at a time with a typical $10 power cord from Home Depot. It will become quite clear as to which links in the system are most contributive or vulnerable to change. And such an experiment removes all the objective opinions by others as to which cable or tube or component is most important. |
I Love my Big 5 I dont know how it could be any better
and maybe my 5 is better than your 7 who knows |
Yes J, somehow I forgot that. |
Jafox, Hi,may I E-mail you about tubes, I have talked to you briefly before, however, I believe you can help me considering you have told me before that tube rolling has a more profound effect than power cables for a system, I want to try out what you are saying, if it turns out the way you say, I would be for ever grateful of your help, cheers. |
Wisnon, as reported on the Lampi B6 thread, I tried the RCA VT-99 and it was a disappointment. I will try the Tung-Sol VT-99 one of these days but for now I am very content with the B6 sonics. |
LoL,
Correct J,...I was giving the generic answer without confusing nuances and yes, there are many nuances as you rightly pointed out.
I heard the 6 in Europe and the 7 in the US, so not side by side. I think the 6 I heard was tube tricked out, but will confirm later, but the 7 was stock, in terms of tube complement. The 6 was lovely and perhaps more RBCD capable at the moment, but I am all over the place with RBCD, Hirez and DSD.
As a standard,the 6 does NOT have DSD, but as the units are hand built, I think as a special it can be done. My pal will look into adding a DSD module to his 6.
J, have you yet gotten to try an RCA VT-99 in your Dac yet? if so, what was the outcome? |
Thankyou wisnon for your reply. |
I like the 7 better than the 6, but its a matter of taste. Now now now! Nobody has yet heard both, back to back, in fully optimized status. The 6 does not offer DSD. My B6 supports DSD but I am not willing to pay the ripoff prices of DSD downloads. |
I like the 7 better than the 6, but its a matter of taste. The 6 does not offer DSD.
Not sure what the PCM chip is, but the DSD is Dac-chip-less. LPF only.
Tube rectified with either twin 6x5 FW rectifiers, or lately 5u4g / 274b/GZ34 class single recti.
Output tubes can be a pair of either 45 triodes/101d/2A3s. The 2A3 requires throwing a switch. infiniute fun rolling tubes here and so easy as they are exposed on top.
There are now tube rolling threads at the Circle for people who want to indulge. Lots of hunting on the Bay and here for NOS tubes to try. Debates already over what sounds best. I got my Cunninghams in anticipation! |
Is the Lampi 7 substantialy better than the 6?, and what dacs are inside, what tubes are inside, does the power suppy have a tube? |
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I presume that Bulgarian women are somewhere in the middle like your dac….? Well, maybe, depends on the mood. :-) But that is probably true when it comes to the little puppy DSD-S. When it comes to its big brother DSD-M, I am not exactly sure. :-) Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
09-13-14: Aplhifi-usa
Well, IMHO, Trinity and Lampzator can be compared as German and Polish women. :-)
Cold strict and quick, as opposed to warm slow and romantic. :-)
My opinion of course based on internal pictures.
Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi I presume that Bulgarian women are somewhere in the middle like your dac....? |
The DSD-S is back in da-house.
I will update when I have an opportunity to listen. |
Alex,
The Big7 with Cunningham 345s is very fast!
Tube Dacs are infinitely tunable. ;-) |
Alex ->
It is all, or nothing at all.
+1. J. |
Guido, thanks for pointing out the Thunderbolt capability of the Weiss 202 DAC. That capability, however, appears to be provided by means of an external Thunderbolt-to-Firewire adapter, which would connect to a Firewire port on the rear of the DAC. And based on a quick look at their website I'm not at all certain that they are even marketing such an adapter themselves, or are simply claiming Thunderbolt compatibility by virtue of the fact that Apple sells Thunderbolt-to-Firewire adapters.
Also, I would feel safe in assuming that their motivation in proclaiming Thunderbolt compatibility derives from the fact that Firewire has been superseded by Thunderbolt on Apple computers. (As I understand it Thunderbolt is only available on non-Apple computers and separately purchasable motherboards to a very limited extent at this time, primarily on high-end workstations, in part because it is considerably more expensive than USB3).
As to whether or not connection of a DAC via a Thunderbolt-to-Firewire adapter would provide any inherent advantage in comparison with the direct Firewire connection that would be possible on older Macs and on other computers having Firewire interfaces, I'd expect that to have to be determined empirically. And I'm not sure how or if that determination could be performed without a great many extraneous hardware-dependent variables also being in play.
Those are my thoughts on the subject, anyway. We'll see if Steve or Alex have anything to add. Best regards,
-- Al
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@everyone. My resonessance invicta mirus is starting to open up. It's sounding really good. I'm using the manley shrimp with a kst 150. Great soundstage. Great dynamics and decay with absolutely no hardness. I've had it for about a month now. I've been playing
it and it's sounding better by the day. |
This Dac seems to be generating some interest as of late. |
The Weiss 202 DAC supports Thunderbolt. However, Thunderbolt in its various incarnations, is One connection technology that I do not recall being discussed on this thread.
Is the Weiss 202 Thunderbolt implementation merely a blip in an otherwise thunderboltless evolution of DAC designs, or is this a beginning of a trend, and we might see more such implementations in the future?
Are there theoretical or practical advantages of Thunderbolt over USB and SPDIF? ... E.g. Higher jitter immunity, signal isolation, Other?
Steve... Alex... Al... What say you?
Saluti, G.
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Mitch2, I had the Dac1 and had the updated USB modification. I think the PureDac is far better but, of course, needs a preamp for other inputs. |
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If the $1800 BMC PureDAC sounds so good, how much better is their top model, the $4,900 BMC DAC1? Anyone heard it? |
Wisnon,
Thanks for the heads up to Stereo Times which reviewed the BMC PureDac very positively, making it a very big bang for the buck.
I also chanced upon another product reviewed in Oct 2012, the Memory Player 64 from Laufer Teknik. At about $17k, it is a one-box solution that includes transport and DAC for redbook CD's and hi-res files. This is another fascinationg product for the shoot-out list.
There is also a very positive review by, er, Positive Feedback at the link below :-
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue65/memoryplayer.htm
Happy reading, all. :) |
Stereotimes review conclusion on the PureDac:
Conclusion
The PureDAC deviates slightly from neutral with a sweet and richer midrange presentation. It has good bass and treble. Soundstaging, imaging and resolution were above average in absolute terms. In context of its asking price, the PureDAC has outstanding performance and it's shortcomings are only obvious when directly compared to the much more expensive equipment I had on hand. Evaluated in isolation, it is immensely likable.
Consider also that the PureDAC is not just a DAC - it is a capable preamp and balanced headphone amp. De-clutter your system by removing two additional boxes, two power cords, two interconnects, and two shelves ! Add a modest price tag (S$ 2,200 in Singapore) to that, and you have an absolute winner. |
I have a buddy in London with an L5 that is trading up to a Big7 very soon. He has a BMC PureDac as his backup Dac (my recommedation to him as an inexpensive backup for when he sent his L5 back for modding caps) and he says "it sounds good, but it aint no Lampi).
I spoent 6 hours at AL place this July listing to his 4 Dacs, one of which was a Big7. It sounded so stunningly real to me that I am going to trade up to.
To each his own ears
Jafox, I am on the hunt for Vintage tubes to roll in The B7. I will get Psavane 101ds, but will try Cunningham 345s/RCA 245 globes and also will roll the recti with 5U4gs and maybe try the WE replica 274Bs from China. |
I think TBG heard the L5 NOT the L7. |
A good acid test for any piece of digital gear is piano. It is the hardest instrument to replicate. The Lampizator 7 is the best I have heard to date. Another L7 owner has a child who is an accomplished pianist, and he has the same impression through both headphones (of which he has many) and big boy audiophile grade speakers. Jafox said something similar regarding his L6. So, it is all about implementation and system building. The dac has no sound of its own.
Matt, I gave you a little guff about the car choice, but the new piano purchase for your bambino thrilled me. I cannot wait to do the same. Instead of comparing dacs to one another, hold them up to that candle one by one.... |
09-12-14: Joecasey
Agear doing what Agear does best. Audio Benghazi. Unfortunately we're not sure what his particular cause is....: until after the election. Impeach and trial him for MURDER! my assessment of your character remains unchanged.... |
09-11-14: Mattnshilp
Agear, I resent that.... My double caramel macchiato is never skinny!
Truth be told, it's a Grande Vanilla Latte with 3 equals. :P Ha! Now that's a beverage. For the record, your Cayman/Boxter is a better engineered vehicle. The 911 has a big butt that is easy to spin out. It is just a sentimental thing for me....like a tubed dac.... |
Jafox,
Agree about room set up at audio shows. Some are downright excellent sounding and some sound like they were hastily thrown together with little thought or preparation.
+1 on tube equipment, I've never heard any that couldn't be substantially improved with a little effort and experimentation.
Charles, |
tbg,
If the inexpensive BMC puredac floats your boat, then that is all that matters. Price is always secondary to personal pleasure and synergy within the context of your system. I personally find the 1k Marantz NA8005 network player supremely pleasurable, elevating the overall sound quality of my system by a considerable margin.
Charles,
+1. Audio vocabulary has always been a bugbear in this hobby. |
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The Lampizator is musical but of no real interest to me. It doesn't sound real. Well if the L7 in stock tube form is somewhat dimensionally flat as is the stock B6, I would have to agree. But like any tube product, if one goes with stock tubes and tries no other, then they likely have already set the failing state of such a product. We spend so much time tuning the rest of of our system with cables, isolation, room treatments, etc., but the tube products, with the potential of much improvement, are completely ignored….either out of laziness or the nonsense that we are told that the product was "voiced" for the installed tube set and thus this is the optimized implementation. Such voicing is often mediocre at best. I have been able to take EVERY tube product to a major level of performance increase with the swapping of one or more tubes. As for what is musical is what I define as a system that makes me feel I am listening to the real mccoy. On some great recordings I have, on LP and Digital, the Lampizator B6 is mighty mighty close to the Clearaudio/Graham/Decca phono setup I'm currently using. The B6's tonality and dynamic contrasts are spot on and only lags behind the phono with some lost ambiance and depth. I've been to enough audio shows to know maybe 1 in 10 rooms make it worth my while to stay more than 30 seconds. Much talk is the time to setup and let the system settle down in the "new" room. But I recently moved a system upstairs and had awesome results with the start of the first track…..room not treated or optimized at all. So I don't think it is a room issue as much as it is the assembly of products that work well as a system. Unless these have already been optimized ahead of time, it is futile to expect them to simply work well in any room whether familiar or an unfamiliar demo or mid-sized hotel room. |
Hello Himiguel,
Yes, this precisely why I prefaced my statement regarding associated components, room etc. I've had enough listening experiences where changing just an item or two causes significant changes in the sound quality. I not surprised that you heard the same characteristics from the Trinity DAC. At the show at that particular time there's no other way to describe the sound.I had expected better, many rooms at CES manage to get very good sound. High Water Sound, Lamm and Concert Fidelity just to name a few always seem to sound fine on my visits.
Charles, |
Tbg, Aplhifi-usa, you do know that BMC is a German company and that they have trained all their workers and make most of the parts within the company? Oh, sure it is a German company. But the product is 100% Chinese-made, at least from what I can see from its internal pictures. You realize that I'm in Texas and they are in the NYC environment. They are about as far from me as Moscow is from Paris. But this is not really a problem when it comes to USA-style shipping services, especially when it comes to UPS and FedEx. Truly the best! I think it is interesting that this started as a cd only dac and now is everything. It is all, or nothing at all. :-) Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Well, IMHO, Trinity and Lampzator can be compared as German and Polish women. :-)
Cold strict and quick, as opposed to warm slow and romantic. :-)
My opinion of course based on internal pictures.
Best,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi |
Aplhifi-usa, you do know that BMC is a German company and that they have trained all their workers and make most of the parts within the company?
You realize that I'm in Texas and they are in the NYC environment. They are about as far from me as Moscow is from Paris.
I think it is interesting that this started as a cd only dac and now is everything. |
Charles 1 dad, I agree that the Trinity sounded clinical and sterile at CES, but on same token I've heard it sound quite engaging in another system in Hong Kong. Not as relaxed, warm or fIuid as the Trinity phono. I believe that the synergy of components as a whole is what makes or break a component. I also agree with Tbg findings on the L7 dac. I did hear some positive attributes of communicating the musical message at CES from the L7. Such a fine line between speed, detail, musicality. |
Tbg, I still say the inexpensive BMC PureDac is the best. Though it is clear that the BMC is another Chinese-made product judging by the way it is built internally, I would agree with you that it packs unique technologies, unlike some "name brands". And I respect that. I've met Clement Perry and Key Kim at the Munich show this year and promised them a DSD-S review sample. I am not sure when this will happen, but it will for sure. Promise is a promise. So maybe you can get to listen to it as well, and let us know how you feel about it. Best, Alex Peychev APL Hi-Fi |
Charles1dad, I agree on both counts. Vocabulary for what we hear is worthless. Audio postings should be musical sounds not words. I also agree that everyone has their own opinions about what they seek. There will never be anything close to a consensus. This is why I can see that Matt is helped by this effort on his part, but that I had very little interest. |
Tbg,
Vocabulary is a problem when discussing audio. Your use of the term musical is much different from mine. In my use it's a major compliment and means it's natural,conveys realism and allows emotional involvement. Tbg everyone reading this thread has personal favorites, that's why so many brands exist.I enjoy discussing what I've heard and exchanging opinions with others, but nothing is ever the best for everyone.It's all the variables that make this an interesting hobby.
Charles, |
Jon,
Yes, I felt it was more natural and musically expressive or connecting.I acknowledge the two DACs were in different systems and there were contributions from the other components.The Lampizator 7 system just drew my attention directly to the music and for me this is always a good sign. I recognize that a change here or there in the system can change perception and outcome.The sound I heard in the Trinity room in contrast was clinical and not engaging in nature.
Charles, |
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Jon2020, I hate the characterization, 'musical' which really means good sounding but nothing close to real sounding. The Lampizator is musical but of no real interest to me. It doesn't sound real. But in my opinion neither does the Trinity and it is outrageously expensive.
I still say the inexpensive BMC PureDac is the best. |
Charles1dad,
Your observation is interesting.
When you say the Lampizator 7 moved you more emotionally, is it being a lot more musical than the Trinity, or is there something else?
Jon. |
Wisnon,
I heard the Trinity DAC and the Lampizator level 7 at CES earlier this year. They were in different rooms/systems but the Lampizator 7 (room) moved me more emotionally and was very involving. It'd be a thrill to compare them directly as the only variable in an otherwise identical system. They will likely appeal to two very different types of listeners.
Charles, |
Well, surprise, at over $50k, the Tinity DAC does not do DSD as well, just as intended by its designer. |
Alex, I totally agree about the DSD, especially as I have Tbs worth and listen with this:
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/07/04/lampizator-dsd-dac/ |
You guys actually didnt know about the Trinity Dac? Where have you been hibernating? LoL |
Thankyou jon2020 for the link, interesting product. |
Matt I did try chunky and as you said it's really is not as smooth as well..smooth, and damned if I didn't heard a difference between the higher end Skippy and the house brands
As for mouse nuts the trick is in the matching.. Pairs are tough enough but Oy Vey, just try getting enough sets for a discrete stepped attenuator! |
Erikminer: I'm very intrigued by your suggestion for a DAC based on Shmop Amps, peanut butter caps and mouse nut resistors!!
I wonder if you could upgrade the caps to smooth peanut butter as the chunky gives the bass bloat and creates a harsh treble. Mouse nuts are clearly difficult to harvest and dramatically increase cost, but I think it would be worth while to roll those nuts and try Squirrel, Chipmunk and maybe even Russian Bat. Obviously a matches pair are always preferred!
Shmop Amps are truthfully only necessary in kosher homes as the shmops must be blessed by the proper audiophile rabbi's. Easier to find around Passover season. When used properly, Oy are they good!!! |
Thanks for the heads up, 4orreal.
I found the link to a review of the fascinating Trinity DAC :-
http://www.trinity-ed.de/typo/fileadmin/template/bilder/reviews/387_trinity_dac.pdf
After reading the review, it should most certainly be added to the shoot-out list. |
