APL NWO2.5 ?

Is the APL NWO2.5 setup for Multi Channel?

I am afraid multichannel is not available on the NWO 2.5 due to space restrictions. We have however just introduced a new multichannel player based on the Denon 5910 ci. Please check our website for more information Thank you , Brent Rainwater CSM Apl Hi Fi

Ackmann00, I have Alex's 3910 with Burr-Brown DAC's(circa summer 2006), and I know you won't be disappointed. He even said there was an upgrade that made a slight, but better difference. I didn't get that upgrade. If you are getting AKM DAC's, they are supposed to be better. If you got tube output, they are supposed to be better than my mosfets. Anyway, his 3910 beat my analog(circa 1992 Linn, Mana, etc.), so I don't think you will disappointed. I have to mention my mantra here. Play with volume. I don't think volume has anything to do with his players. I think it has to do with sitting behind the sound desk, and determining what sounds right. I find one volume, and play all cd's at that volume.

Tvad, you've got to take it easy, or everyone is going to take all of your suggestions(i.e., Alex's offer of airfare, and my power cord purchase)!

Mmakshak - I have had the APL3910 for about two weeks now. It has all the latest upgrades including the AKM DACs. Right out of the box it sounded pretty darn good. I have only about 15-20 hours on it now and recently listened to Miles Davis Kind of Blue (had listened to it about 30 times before on a Meridian 506-20) and was blown away by how good it sounded - it was like listening to it for the first time and discovering all the little nuances and textures to the music/performances that I had never heard before. Can't wait til my 3910 is fully broken in. That being said, I can only imagine how good the NWO 2.5 is.

I have owned the 3910 with Crystal dacs , the 3910 fully loaded with 6 AKM dacs per channel and now own the NWO 2.5. In my opinion if the Crystal was say a one , then the AKM would be a four. The 2.5 would easily be a twelve in performance difference. I also work with Alex so take this statement for what it is worth to you. I however stand by it as accurate imo.

I also owned an APL Denon 3910 with Crystal DACs and then with AKM
DACs. If 2 is 100% more than 1, and if the Crystal DACs were a one,
then the AKM DACs were a 1.25 or a 1.5. 25% or 50% improvement is an
enormous jump in audio terms. We are usually happy with single digit
percentage improvements. Were the AKM DACs 100% better than the
Crystal DACs? Not in my opinion.

As they say, YMMV, and everyone's continuum is different.

Tvad , you owned version AKM # 5 and we are up to revision #14 . I owned AKM version # 12 . What I was referring to was in non technical mathematical terms my friend . It was basically on a laymans scale. 1. was Crystal 4. was my AKM and although I initially intended to place the 2.5 as a simple 10 , I gave it some thought and came to the conclusion it was higher in relative performance. I wasnt intending this to be taken too terribly seriously. I was simply trying to put this in to perspective for some out there who might wonder where the performance values lie. It was a relative scale not based on percentages . My mistake I guess. Audiophiles are certainly a serious group of people..... :} I represent APl Hi Fi yes , I also have fun in this hobby and will exit quietly when it ceases to become so.

No problem Brainwater. You offered your perspective and I offered mine.
Your explanation of which AKM DAC revision I had certainly goes a long
way to explain the difference I perceived betweeen the Crystal and AKM
DACs.

Kumbaya.

When evaluating used APL Denon 3910 players, how does one determine
which AKM DAC revision is installed? And, how does one compare the
value of a used APL Denon 3910 with AKM DAC revision #6 versus, say,
a used APL Denon 3910 with AKM DAC revision #13?

"14" Revisions in one player means either the modder does not know his "craft", or, there is some long-green for the pickens..... 8^(

I believe the revisions #2-#14 are on the AKM DACs from the AKM
factory. They are not APL modification revisions. Whether the AKM
revisions were made at the request of APL for use in the APL products I
do not know. Perhaps APL will comment.

Every APL DAC board has the version printed on it. The designer can read the revision . Bottom line is that version 14 is the best so far and it does not cost arm and leg to upgrade any Denon version to the latest. This version 14 is the final AK4396 DAC PCB. There will not be any further upgrades using this particular DAC chip. Eventual future upgrades will be acomplished using a different DAC chip for which different hardware and software will be designed. We can not determine the used value of any Denon version. The value is being determined by the actual market and the demand.

Tavd, Thanks for the heads-up...

Aolmrd1241, we are talking about Printed Circuit Board versions of the DAC, not “modification versions”. Each of the DAC PCB versions was designed in order to accommodate new technologies available for improved digital signal processing. All APL products using tube output are completely re-engineered digital players from the power supply to the outputs using just the transport and the enclosure from the stock player. The original circuits are completely removed or bypassed.

Oh my goodness! I understand from my reading that the AKM Dac's were better than my Burr-Brown, but my player sounds fantastic! What I'm wondering is, will the better player(i.e., AKM's) make poorer recordings sound slightly better, or, just in comparison, the good recordings sound obviously better with the better player(i.e., AKM Dac's). In the latter case, it might not be quite as important-you know what I mean?

Mmakshak:
Having had both the Crystal DACs and the AKM DAC's - (probably about revision 7 on the "Rainwater scale"), my experience has been that after they break in, the AKM's are significantly, noticeably better on well-recorded music. More detail, slightly greater range and a more pleasing presentation. As far as poorly-recorded music, "garbage-in" is still going to result in "garbage-out" IMHO, no matter what player you use. The AKMs are just more revealing and I am definitely glad I did the upgrade.

With all this discussion of the number of different versions of the APL Denon 3910 there are out there, I think we should keep in mind that this indirectly illustrates one of the main advantages of doing business with APL. Alex's strategy has from the beginning been to keep making improvements to his basic design and offering them incrementally to his past customers who are willing to return their CDPs for upgrade. He even has located a vendor who makes a hardened case to facilate the shipping. In my mind, this incremental strategy is far preferable to the typical manufacture's strategy of designed obsolesence followed by new box replacement. Certainly, Alex's strategy has kept UPS busy shipping my Denon 3910 back and forth (five times by my count), but preserving my investment, while still being able to take advantage of new technology and component design, is by far a higher priority.

From a personal point of view, I own one of Alex's first APL Denon 3910s. (I owned the APL SACD 1000 prior to that).
And I have upgraded it every time Alex made a new improvement available. Most important to me was the last upgrade. This involved the addition of the linear power supply similar to that available in his Exoteric-based models. This was by far the single most dramatic enhancement to date. The result was so hugh that Alex renamed the upgraded Denon, the NWO 0.5. I know that Alex had only a limited set of parts available for this upgrade, and may not be accepting customers any more, but it illustrates how Alex's design strategy continues to evolve, all the way up to the state-of-the-art NWO 2.5 (for my money the best CDP currently available in the market at any price). For those who want additional information, I suggest you checkout the review I posted on Alex's web site. The link is as follows:

http://www.aplhifi.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=380

Pete Watt

All I know is that I have owned over 50 high end digital players, when I receive my NWO, I am DONE, SMILING, HAPPY< and content. End of journey. Thanks be to god.

Smilin out

Yeah, heard that from you before smilin!!! When you are ready to upgrade your 2.5, I'll be happy to take it off your hands!!!

:)

Time will tell, my friends, time will tell. I know of nobody more obsessed with creating the finest digital playback on an hourly, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly pace, as ALEX. He puts it ALL out, and the owner gets to hear it.JMO.

HI Steve- Appeared to me, my friend, hat Jmpwme's post was in the spirit of gentle ribbing from an kindred spirit. Spin a few silver disks and enjoy what you've got.

Swampwalker, I get it, I am just chillin with the music!!!

I would love to hear from Puremusic though, cause he just received his NWO, and I still gots to be patient.

Patience is tough, but hang in there; Santa, I mean Alex, is coming.

I have a real good feeling it will be a new years baby.

It didnt make sense to start a new APL thread because I thought I could most likely get my feedback right here. I am interested in one of the modified players which I may run along side my AA Capitole SE for now. I contacted Dan Wright and he promptly let me know his current Flagship 9100ES is currently not available with balanced outputs. I just invested in a new Siltech SQ 110 series 2 XLR cable which I would really like to have use of for the CD player that I may eventually keep. Since this 1.5 meter run of SQ110 cost almost as much as the 9100ES, I would like to use it but didnt realize I may have just been better off buying this run of cable RCA/RCA. Live and learn I guess.
Is this guy gonna get to the point or what?
I am interested in one of the APL players, and would like to stay in the 5-8k price range. I was not able to get any pricing on APL, but have yet to e-mail them. Which APL offering may be good enough to outperform the Capitole hands down. Also , is there any general feelings on XLR vs RCA for the APL.

Which APL offering may be good enough to outperform the Capitole hands down. Also , is there any general feelings on XLR vs RCA for the APL.
Fjn04 (Threads | Answers)

APL Denon 3910 with Balanced Output option. Last I knew this player cost $6500 and the balanced outputs were at additional cost.

It will outperform your Capitole hands down, IMO.

Fjn04, there is no difference between RCA and XLR with APL products because of transformer coupled output of the tube stage (no capacitors). If you enjoy the resolution of balanced designs, you may want to consider the new NWO-M1 which, unlike the older single ended APL3910 (no longer offered), is employing fully differential configuration.

Please email us if you have more questions.

Thanks!

Alex

Following up on a thread titled 'Reference DACs', how would owners of the NWO-2.5 characterize the player on the scale of #1 to #2 sound?

Following up on a thread titled 'Reference DACs', how would owners of the NWO-2.5 characterize the player on the scale of #1 to #2 sound?

I don't own the player, but I've heard it on three occasions, for maybe an hour each time, playing a wide range of music: Rachmaninov, Diana Krall, Pink Floyd, Dire Straits, Nick Drake, and some avant-garde jazz (Banyan, Nels Cline, Tuatara, Steven Bernstein), etc. In my opinion, the player balances the best of both types of sound. It is extended top to bottom, with by far the most tuneful and resolved bass I've ever heard, confidently detailed (though neither crystalline or lush), with tonal reproduction and true-to-life palpability that will make you forget you're listening to an audio system. It just sounds like music, absent a designer's signature.

Smilin, Yes I did get my NWO-2.5 recently. But shortly before its arrival, one of the monoblocks of my venerable Jadis JA80 amps had to be shipped off to New York for repairs. So, I'm burning in my NWO using the solid state amp that normally drives the subwoofer. You got to have pity on a tube man like me:-) I can't wait for the NWO to burn-in so I could check out what it's made of. Hopefully, by the time I return from my holiday trip to California my Jadis will be back. I'll definitely give you my impressions of the NWO.
Best,
John

As an aside, does anyone know how to improve cd's that have digitalitis? Is it even possible? What caused it? It seems to me that it eliminates almost all cd's until about 1995. I do believe(without a lot of experimentation) that analog to cd sounds inferior to the analog itself(pre-1982).

Check out the impressive measurements for the APL NWO-2.5 that Alex Peychev posted on the APL Forum:

http://www.aplhifi.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=593

They correlate with the stunning sound that is unfolding with only 65 hours of burn-in time on my NWO. I can't wait to hear it when it's burnt-in with the recommended 200-300 hours and when my primary amp is back in the system.

I just got my NWO 2.5 on Friday. Right out of the cold box it sounded wicked good. I first connected it to my pre-amp and said wow, this sounds really impressive. Then I connected it directly to my darTZeel amp. My jaw hit the floor. Once you take this step there is NO going back. Everything is better going direct to the amp, in a big, big way. Fortunately for me I don't have other sources to worry about.

I bought this unit without hearing it. I now have only 30 hours on my 2.5 and it not only lives up to all of the raves on this and the APL Hi-Fi forum....it exceeds it by a wide margin. This is the real deal. This is the "Digital Neo" we audiophiles have been waiting for.

First, you simply cannot believe how good RBCD sounds on this unit. Who would have thought it possible. DVD-A takes digital playback to a strata that I'm not sure even the best turntables can better. And even if they can, the margin will likely be very small indeed and they will have to be optimally set-up, vinyl cleaned and without scratches, etc. Note (!), this is only conjecture on my point as I have not yet had the chance to put the 2.5 up against SOTA vinyl yet, but I do know that a poster on the APL Forum has made this comparison against a $65K vinyl rig and the 2.5 came out victorious. I must admit when I first read his post I rolled my eyes...not anymore I can tell you.

I am observing a steady improvement in resolution, extension and micro detail as the unit burns in and I've been told that at 100 hours the 2.5 shifts to another gear...I simply can't wait for that to occur.

The way Alex P (the designer, resident genius, nice guy and passionate audiophile behind the NWO 2.5) has integrated control of the volume, digital filtering and S/PDIF digital input is clean and very clever.

I cannot more highly recommend this unit and will post a more substantive review after I get more hours on it. From a full disclosure stand point I have no commercial associations or interest whatsoever in APL Hi-Fi. I'm just an ecstatic customer.

Great post Earflappin! Just curious, are you using the DarTZeel preamp and bypassing that? Are you runing the 2.5 balanced into the Dart? Looking forward to more comments! You may have to bring the APL NWO 2.5 with you if you stop by and we'll have a little shootout against the Emm CDSA SE. What do you think?

Frank

Thanks Frank! I am currently bypassing the darTZeel pre-amp as the NWO 2.5 has a built in volume control, although I will go back and verify my initial findings by reconnecting to the darTZeel pre-amp.

I spec'ed my NWO 2.5 with RCA outputs, although the way the output stage is designed there shouldn't be a XLR vs RCA performance difference. As you know, the dart gear is RCA-centric so that's why I went that way.

I was thinking the same thing about the shoot out! BTW, what power cords and interconnect cables are you using and do you have a set of RCA's or are you going XLR from the CDSA SE into the dart pre?

David

I now have just over 100 hours of burn in time on my new NWO 2.5 and thought I would post a quick update.

The improvements have been gradual, continuous and significant. The sound has become increasingly fluid and detailed. Subtle ambient cues and microdetails have emerged on recordings with which I am very familiar...almost spooky.

After 30 plus hours of listening, several aspects of the unit's performance have begun to standout that set the NWO 2.5 apart from any other source I have heard in my system or elsewhere (shows, dealers, friends' systems, etc.). Here they are in no particular order:

(1) The depth with which one can listen into the soundstage...you hear the faintest, slightest details; like a triangle being struck in the back of the orchestra after a very dynamic passage.

(2) No listening fatigue even on RBCD. After listening to the NWO 2.5 you understand how many artifacts lesser players introduce into the music in terms of veils, time smearing, etc.

(3) Linearity across the entire spectrum...no portion of the spectrum sounds like is being over or under emphasized. I think this is one of the reasons the unit is not fatiguing to listen to.

(4) Low end and high end resolution and extension is amazing. I am hearing fast, tight low bass information on recordings where I never realized it existed as well as extended highs.

(5) Ability to drive the amplifier directly with absolutely no issues.

(6) The way you just find yourself listening to the music and not listening to your system trying to analyze if everything is as it should be.

Bottom line, the NWO 2.5 just sounds like music. It certainly does not sound like any digital player I have ever heard.

That's it for now...gotta go wrap some presents or my wife may make my NWO 2.5 disappear...:-)

Earflappin, WOW, I just saw your pre-amp up for sale, congrat's, The NWO is truely amazing, and I am still waiting impatiently for mine to arrive. I am so happy you are please with my suggestion. Alex truely is one of a kind, in his approach to digital(digivinyl)as I refer to it.

David, Have a Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year....and please, call me when you have a chance

Steve

Steve, good to talk with you. Thanks again for your endorsement of Alex and his work. You did not lead me astray! Have a great holiday season yourself my friend and shoot me that info on your speakers and cables when you get a chance!

David

Thank you all for the nice words and continued support! The NWO-2.5 player is something that I’ve developed with lots of love and best sound possible in mind. The extremely positive feedback the NWO series have received and the fact that there are none available on the used market speaks volumes and is my best Christmas present ever. Thanks again!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Best wishes,

Alex

I have APL 3910, It is the best player I have ever had and heard. I am in Beijing, China. I am so happy that I won't upgrade to NWO 2.5 until I upgrade my amplifer and speakers to the $20K+ top highend first.

I enjoy, what has been stated about the 2.5. Can you guys give me a price on this? I just want to say that my 3910 from him(compared to analog, and designed with analog in mind), blows away my analog($10,000 in 1992). I may hsve actually heard it! I don't know what is going on, but I love music!

Mak, if I recall correctly, a NWO-2.5 may cost approx $20K all inclusive. Brent at APL will give you the exact figure.

G.

Guidocorona, you know that I won't be spending that much. I have to applaud what Alex has done with his APL 3910. It's actually unbelievable. Unfortunately, I can't translate it into an actual product. My best guess, is to get one of his 3910's or upgrade to the 3930. Hell, you have to ask Alex. Before you go to AKM dac's, or tubes, you should look into this. This is, a for sure, conduit into music. I'm not kidding here.

Do not worry Mak, there is wonderful equipment at all price points, and Alex has an excellent name throughout the range! As for me, unfortunately for the next two years I won't likely purchase any major new equipment. . . my better half has shut down the tap. . . there is just a very thin trickle flowing for some new software. . . In a couple of years I will likely upgrade my amplifiers, or perhaps my speakers.

Hi Guido , are you going to CES? I would love to have a drink with you if you are going. Thanks Brent Rainwater APL Hi Fi

Hi Brent, would love to fly to CES. Unfortunately it does not seem to be in the cards. I have all intentions to return to AudioFest in 07 though. . . may I take a raincheck?

Raincheck it is Guido.
For those of you who are not familiar with Guido allow me this observation . I learned quickly who he was in Denver although I knew " Of " him through Alex and some others on the Gon . Things were quite intense for the most part for 3 entire days at RMAF. Intense became a near panic when someone claimed "Guido is coming to our room ". { The stress in his voice reminded me of my own mouth uttering the words ..." say what ? " when I discovered what a prostate exam consisted of at 30.} I asked , why the fuss over Guido , is he coming to give us "an offer we couldn't refuse? " .... help us with our "sleeping arrangements with the fishes".... or what ?? Guido sounds scary enough but to see the room in a hysterical mêlée was quite the experience indeed.

I stood back in utter amusement as one member effortlessly slid across the floor on their knees perching inches away from the NWO 2.5 ejecting the cd tray as another had already selected the perfect disc for playback. Another dimmed the lights to the perfect level ... laugh , I dare you . The handoff was liquid smooth and within a nano second Ella was in the room. To see this was to understand the level he had ascended to in our community . For me ... it was as if I were John Hurt in Broadcast News witnessing the intensity of his first day on the job. The door opened and .......................................................Guido stepped in . Silence was exploding in the room . A vacuum if you will as no one was breathing obviously.

His ease with himself was all to evident and the moment will be frozen in time for me.

Respect , its something you earn .

LOL, Brainwater. I may have to go to RMAF next year to see the replay ;~) Guido is indeed well respected, but if I remember correctly, dimming the lights was not necessary. Am I right, Guido?

Swampwalker , light dimming not a prerequisite thus the .... "go ahead laugh, I dare ya ".
Brent