D-SONIC SOA Class-D Core Amps. The best Class-D ?

I wonder how an amp like the Emotiva XPR-2 with 600 watts into 8ohms would compare sound-wise to this amp? they are completely different animals and the Emotiva looks like a truck with heat and a huge power consumption to go with it, but interesting nonetheless where sound is concerned.

So my new M3 5 channel amp configured as 1000/1000/600/600/600 watts arrived last week. Even with very few hours it easily bests each amp in a long line of succession in my rack in every conceivable metric... truly a stunning piece.

With over 500 hours of burn-in, my new D-Sonic M3-3800 amplifier is performing at a very high level. Its power is only superseded by its grace with both movies and two channel audio. I'm extremely pleased with its acquisition and expect it to remain in my rack for a long time.

njs, how are you supporting your new amp? I discovered a few months after buying my M2-600 monos that they really respond well to fundamental audiophile setup tweaks more so than any other components I have heard to date. I currently have mine on 3-level isolation platforms with coupling brass footers between the amps and a maple platform supported on decoupling blocks (Mapleshade blocks work best). Also, the amps are very sensitive to emi/rf interference but only when placed too near other emi-sensitive equipment such as power supplies for my preamps. They also seem to really like good ICs and PCs.

The amp was initially placed in an isolation cabinet well away from power supplies and other RF/EMI nasties.

At around 200 hours I upgraded the power cord to a Signal Cable Silver Resolution Reference cable with 20 amp Furutech female termination.

A short while later I put four large Isolate It! sorborthane feet beneath the amp.

Both upgrades clearly made a positive improvement to the amp's slready excellent SQ.

Now that i am approaching a full year with these amps, I have to say that they are extremely responsive to improvements in their own setup as well as upstream in the system. I thought they were really good when I first got them, but they continue to surprise and delight as i have made more than 60 changes to my gear since, mostly in component support. Mine are currently powered by Synergistics Research X2 active master couplers. I get the best results to date using a highly shielded balanced Sonoma Plateau copper cable for the signal. output is through a 4' biwire set of Poeima ii silver ribbons. I have upgraded the connectors on my speakers to cardas CPBP posts that I want to also install on the amps. My amps sit on a pair of round-top granite end tables that I modified with carpet spikes and damping material. Each amp sits on Eden Sound triceratops bear paw brass footers resting on a 15"x2" round maple platform. These are decoupled from the granite top with Maplesade isolation blocks. The amps way only 10# each, with the combined weight of each table/platform/footers is about 35#. It took a lot of listening and experimentation to arrive at the current configuration, but the amps are so revealing that the effort was not overly frustrating.

Mcbuddah, thanks for posting. Very interesting. You have put a lot of effort in to this. I will try D- Sonic monos in May next year when I'm back from a long holiday in Asia. When you talk about Poeima 2, you mean Ridge Street Audio Poeima 2, right? If so, I use Poeima 3 ( speaker and XLR IC ). I'm in Sweden but it's a small world. Please, let us know more about your impressions about the amps. I understand you like them because you have put so much energy and made so many changes into your system.
I will share my findings about these amps, but it's a long time from now.
Cheers,
Mikko

Mcbuddah, I can't find info on the Sonoma Plateau IC you are using.
How much are they? Other IC you tried besides the Sonoma Plateaus?

Yeah, it's a year later, and no more info in this thread? No news?

One comment: To me, it's ridiculous to publish a spec like Rowland does about the frequency response of his amplifiers in the region that only bats can hear and then say it's down 3 dB? Is that supposed to be impressive? What is the frequency range where we can expect the output of his amplifiers to be essentially flat?

The finest and most powerful Class D amp on the planet are the Marten M-Amp mono blocks from Sweden. They weigh 100 lbs a piece and run cool. Costs is $45K a pair. These amps ain't for kiddies. The Marten's use Abletec switching amps

Um, would it be improper to point out that he obviously missed the design goals of Class D topology by the diameter of the solar system? What's the point of a class D amp that has all of the disadvantages of a class A/B design?

"What's the point of a class D amp that has all of the disadvantages of a class A/B design?"

Its newer more efficient technology.

That gets you a lot ways further than prior.

The Martin case just appears to be a high end audio attempt to take it to its limits, which is probably even further beyond what most people are looking for than otherwise.

BREAKING NEWS..Many are aware that during the past two plus years, D-Sonic has been using the ABLETEC ALC-1000 Amp in the D-Sonic M3-600M and the M3-1200S designed by Patrik Bostrom. That amp module has been discontinued and is out of production and replaced by the new ANAVIEW AMS 1000-2600, designed by Patrik Bostrom with ANAVIEW/ABLETEC, and now part of the ETAL GROUP. Recently, Bostrom released the AMS series and his other lines under the ANAVIEW name rather than ABLETEC. ANAVIEW is the first company Bostrom founded. The new AMS 1000-2600 is.. "THE CLASS D AMP TO WATCH OUT FOR." WHY? "AMS"..which means "Adaptive Modulation Servo"..
a revolutionary new loop linearization circuit technology
that was exclusive too, and designed for the worlds finest Class D amp at $45K a pair, The Marten M amp of Sweden designed by Bostrom. For the first time, Bostrom is making available his advanced AMS technology in a line of budget priced class D amps. I hope Dennis Deacon at D-Sonic has picked up on the new AMS series and will use them to replace the Abletec amps.

ANAVIEW AMS 1000-2600 SPECS
TWO CHANNEL STEREO MODE
170 Watts per channel RMS @8 Ohms
300 Watts per channel RMS @4 Ohms
500 Watts per channel RMS @2 Ohms
____________________________________________

BRIDGED TO ONE CHANNEL MODE/MONO
580 Watts RMS @8 Ohms
720 Watts RMS @6 Ohms
900 Watts RMS @4 Ohms

Any breaking news on Dennis' pre-amp yet, AZ???

Anyone know what's in the M3-800s?..D-Sonic

According to Dennis at D-Sonic, all 3 or more channel amps
use only B&O Ice. All two channel or mono amps use Pascal or
Anaview/Abletec.

Is there significant sonic differences between the current
D-Sonic with the ABLETEC ALC-1000 Amp and the supposedly new ANAVIEW AMS 1000-2600 versions?

I need to buy one, but not sure if I should holdout for the new amps.

Thanks

I have just spoken to Dennis at D-Sonic... the new Anaview AMS 1000-2600 have been shipped to him by the oversees manufacturer, and are currently in transit to Houston (TX). Dennis believes that he might be able to start shipping amps using the new modules in less than one month.

As for audible differences from the previous versions, apparently Anaview has done some considerable work in reducing intermodulation in the treble region on the 2600 modules... I conjecture that this might yield sweeter and more textured treble, as well as more musical information in transients, because of smaller amplitude sidebands in the signal.

This is not true. Only B-Stock close outs and one 3 channel unit use B&O.

Hi Dennis, why not post some tech info -- such as power conversion modules -- on the product page for each amplifier in the D-Sonic web site... Would reduce this kind of uncertainty in the obsessive audiophilic lore. G.

I was just going to order a pair of the m3 600 monos. But I guess I will wait til the anaview arrive.

I have high hopes for these amps. I am going to use them to drive some kef ls50's.

Please keep us informed on when we can order the anaview model.

I received a pair of the 600s yesterday.
Hope I didn't pull the trigger too soon.
From what I am hearing so far makes me wonder just how much better they could be. I know I have a long wait for them to break in, but they certainly are better then anything I have ever had in my system.

Hi Tan, tell us about the rest of your system, including cabling, and what amps the D-Sonics are replacing... .... What music are you listening to... How is the sound different from the old amps?

G.

Thanks for your interest.
My digital front end is made up of a North Star dac. with a matching transport. They are connected with a special made silver I2S cable. My analog front end is an Origin Live table and arm with Shelter cartridge.My Phonostage is a P S Audio.
My pre is the Wyred 4 Sound STP SE. All are connected with Condure balanced interconnects. The speakers are Danish made Dantax Albatross 8. Each have front and rear firing Scanspeak tweeters, a 6.5"Seas mid & two 8.5 Seas woofers The speaker cables are Clear Day Double Shotgun.
My first system was a pair of Dynaco St70 that I built mated with a pair of Snell C speakers. That was about thirty years ago. Even today my buddies tell me that was the best sound I ever had in my home.I have gone through many system changes since then. Macintosh,Classe,Spectral are just a few of the amps I have used.A few years ago I jumped on the Class 'D' train. I started with a pair of Bel Canto 300Ms. I moved on to a pair of Ref500Ms. I liked what I was hearing, but something was missing.They had a good low end and a nice top end, but somehow seemed disconnected. The first thing I noticed with the D-Sonic was how how balanced they were from top to bottom.As far the soundstage I feel like I am sitting in a huge bubble of sound. They do sound a little dry right now. but they are playing 24/7 with cable radio to break in.

Thank you Tan, please keep us posted as the sound of your D-Sonic amps evolves...

... Meantime Tim, what's new with your quest?

G.

Tan, good luck with your new amps. I have had my M2-600 pair for a year and a half and I have not yet finished digging all the best sound possible from my system since they replaced an aging pair of Atma-Spheres that died together when an errant power regenerator went crazy. As I have written earlier in this thread, the break-in period is quite lengthy, although the amps show signs of excellence along the way. They are very revealing of problems with component and EMI/RF interference, cartridge setup, cabling, poor recordings, room tuning, etc. and drove me to make more than fifty significant changes in my system since new. They really came into their own when I discovered how much they like heavy brass footers and maple platforms. Most recently, I acquired a used W4S STP preamp and I am astonished at the synergy between them. I currently have my amps plugged directly into their own dedicated Maestro outlets through HCF Top Gun PCs and connected to the STP through heavily shielded Sonoran Plateau balanced interconnects. The STP is powered from a PS Audio Premier using a PS Audio SC Premier cord. All components use Eden Sound Bear Paws or Terra Stones on individual maple platforms suspended on iso-blocks. Care may need to be taken in physical placement of the amps as proximity to some components may result in stray radio programs mucking up the noise floor (a Thor phono stage needed to be relocated in my system).

It seems to me that the more I do elsewhere in my system has caused the D-Sonics to continue to rise to the challenge of making better sounding music. After this much time, The only bone I have to pick with the amps is that they made me work too hard on bringing the rest of my system up to minimum audiophile standards in order to get the best from them.

Thanks Mcbuddah.
Mine are on their own amp stands which I already had.
I also have ISO-Blocks under each leg of the amps.
I am sure I will make other improvements after they have
had time to break in.
I do not however plan to replace any of my equipment.

Hi Guido,

G.

On your 7/20/14 post on this thread you wrote:

" Meantime Tim, what's new with your quest?

G."

Just curious as to which Tim you were directing that at? I know you're aware that I'm currently having James Romeyn build a pair of mono-blocks for me that contain the same power modules used in the D-Sonic M2/M3-600 monoblocks, the Anaview/Abletec1000-1300 modules, and I thought you might have been thinking I was following this thread.
Actually, I just read this thread today, August 26th. Very interesting thread and I'd be happy to chime in with details of my quest if you were directing your question at me. If not, then never mind and please disregard.

Let me know.
Thanks,
Tim

Hi Noble Tim.... Yes, wrong thread, but... Right Tim!

How are things moving along with your Anaview/Abletec1000-1300 amps to be?

Guido,

The builder, James Romeyn in Utah, has had a few issues that caused delays in the builds; he received an unexpected resurgence of orders for his more typical Hypex Ncore400 based amp builds and he ran short of some connectors specific to the ALC1000-1300 modules. There seems to be a general shortage of these connectors available for sale but I finally was able to find 5 packs of these at a Profusion outlet in Denmark.

Romeyn now has all the required components and the completed amps are expected to arrive shortly (within 2 weeks), barring any further unexpected delays.

I was originally going to have mono-blocks built using the very latest technology and use the new Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules. I actually ordered a pair of these modules from Shaw Electronics in Montana. But Shaw sent an email the next day stating they could not fulfill the order unless I was an OEM manufacturer. They gave me a full refund of my purchase price of approx. $850. In July of 2014, I found a Profusion Electronics outlet in the U.K. that was willing to sell me a pair for a similar price but would not have them in-stock until mid-September 2014.

In order to avoid these issues and delays, I decided to have the amps built using the somewhat older, but very highly reviewed, Abletec ALC1000-1300 modules instead. Even though my quest has been for quality performance over lowest priced, the reduced price of these modules ($560/pair)has not gone unappreciated since I'm now on a reduced and modest fixed income.

I am aware that the AMS modules may outperform the ALC modules but I'm not aware of anyone that has even heard both, much less written their impressions. If the new AMS modules do prove to outperform the ALC, I'm curious to know how much better and in how many areas.

Back to Audiozen's original question: "D-Sonic SOA Class-D Core Amps. The best Class-D?". I think Dennis has done a great job of recognizing the great performance and excellent value that some of the modern class D core amps represent. His main skills seem to be identifying the better class D modules and incorporating them into his products: Pascal modules in the M3-1500M, Abletec ALC-1000-1300 modules in the M-600M and B&O Ice modules in the multi-channel amps.

I believe D-Sonic now even offers the new Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules in their new M600M-A model mono-blocks.

Since the D-Sonic M3-600M used the Abletec ALC-1000-1300 modules and the new M3-600M-A uses Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules, Dennis is probably the ideal person to compare the two modules' performance.

In retrospect, if I knew the Anaview AMS-1000 modules would be available so quickly in the M3-600M-A mono-blocks, I probably should have just waited and bought a pair. Woops.

Thanks,
Tim

Thank you Noble Tim... Update on all fronts very much appreciated! G.

D-Sonic Dennis,

Any impressions on the performance of your 600M vs 600M-A mono-blocks you'd care to share? Are there any significant differences at all?

Thanks,
Tim

Tim,

I have been shipping amplifiers with the new AMS1000-2600 modules. The sonic differences with the previous ALC1000-1300 are very subtle with most source material. They do have a more natural resolution of detail and a more natural impact in the upper bass to lower midrange area. This is where most big dynamics are heard such as percussion, cellos, baritone and bass horns.

A previous post stated that I use B&O in all of my multichannel amplifiers. This has not been true for almost two years now. I use them only in the M2-1500-3 model and am phasing these modules out. I do have a few older B-Stock units also.

Regards,

Dennis

Hi Dennis, as you can see, there is a little bit of uncertainty in the common lore about the specs of D-Sonic's fine amps. If you can add a little bit of technical information on your site for each model... such as available module options, the confusion will vanish quickly.

Saluti, G.

Hi Dennis,

How would you compare the sound of the M-pro2 vs the S-pro2? 6moons compared the two in the Gado DIA 400 and 250 amps and liked the S-pro2 better. S-pro2 seems to be newer but the M-pro2 should be a step up, which is confusing.

Thanks!

Tan have you ever tried heavy copper cabling both input and output and compared to what your currently using.

My last switching amplifier purchase was a pair of Hypex NC400s so I'm not sure how this synergy has changed with newer designs. With my first class D a PS Audio and all the others I either owned or auditioned in house, silver cabling had a slight but noticeable to all, negative affect.

My class D cable history began with some original Monster Cable, Cardas Golden Ref, and finally NuForce. Hopefully others here can make a more contemporary comment on cabling.

M-db:

I did mention that my 300Ms were a little dry sounding.
I don't think cables were the cause. They just needed time to break in. At the present time they have plenty of body.
For the first 100 hours they appeared to get worse, but after about an additional 100 hours, they seem to mature. These switching amps, unlike those I had,do not have the gap I heard between the bottom end and the top end.
The sound stage sounds full top to bottom and left to right. I also think that in time they will continue to improve.

Hi Tan43, how many hours -- with a signal going through -- do you have on your amps?

Guido

I am sure I have over 300 hours of actual playing time.
I really think they preform better then any AB amps I have owned. They remind me of a pair of class A amps I owned some years ago.

Hi Tan43, your D-Sonic amps are likely to continue to sweeten for another 700 hours or so... Do keep us posted on their progress. G.

I have abletec modules, they took about 900 hours for basic break in and still improved slightly over the next several hundred

Thank you Timlub, I suspected that much... The newest generation Class D modules are late bloomers as much as the previous designs, but... when new generation class D amps come into full bloom, marvellous things are often heard *grins!*

>>I really think they preform better then any AB amps I have owned. They remind me of a pair of class A amps I owned some years ago.<<

Hi Tan43, what class AB amps have you owned? Just curious.

Believe me. You would not be impressed.
I guess the most enjoyable "AB" amps I have owned were a pair of Spectral bridged DMA90s with a Spectral pre and all MIT cables.

Hi Tan43, could you contrast the sound of your D-Sonic amp vs your previous Spectral setup? What are the strong points of D-Sonic, versus the strong points of the Spectral?

Thanks, G.

I switch from a Moon audio w-5 power amp to an Audio Research DS 450 driven by Audio Research LS27
it is a match made in heaven. Tango

Hi all,

Thought I'd post to let everyone know I'm still planning on giving my impressions of my new mono-blocks utilizing the Abletec/Anaview ALC-2600-1300 modules.

Unfortunately, I am still awaiting delivery of my amps as of today, Sept. 27th 2014. I'm not certain of the exact cause of the latest delay but suspect James Romeyn may have experienced another surge in Hypex NCore 400 based amp build orders, which he told me he's still receiving from customers literally located around the world. He's also stated that the Hypex amps are easier to build than the Abletec amps due to much better existing instructions, documentation and customer support along with a lack of availability of very useful wiring harnesses like Hypex offers. He, therefore, must either make individual connecting cables or build his own harnesses.

I will call or email James on Monday requesting an explanation and eta.
I'll try and update as things develop.
Later,
Tim

Hi Tim, this delay must be very stressful... In case you ever opted for a pivot, NAD Electronics has just released its first Masters Series stereo amplifier based on NCore technology, priced at an attractive $3K. See:

http://nadelectronics.com/products/masters-series/M22-Stereo-Power-Amplifier

At least on paper, the device looks very interesting... It uses the NCore module as a subcomponent of a fairly sophisticated circuit, not as an all-in-one amplifier connected to I/O terminals.

G.

Hi Guido,

The new NAD looks very interesting. But I'm kind of committed to the Abletec now, since I've already bought the modules, amp cases,connectors, etc.
I'm not too stressed yet; the delay has allowed me to be able to pay in cash once they're completed.
I was going to call James today for an update but got diverted. I'm going to try and get an update tomorrow.

Thanks,
Tim

Has anyone had a chance to compare 1000ASP ice based amp with new d-sonic amps based AMS1000-2600?
I'm in the market for stereo amp, but want to do my due diligence before ordering.
I had an old outlaw 770(200x7) amp driving Pioneer S-1EX, S-7EX and other surrounds. When I switched to older D-sonic 3500-7, the difference was astounding in terms of bass control, sound stage, dynamics and imaging.
I'm wondering how much of an improvement would it be with amps based on newer AMS1000-2600 module. I will continue to use the 3500-7 for other 5 channels.

Hi guys I just received my D-sonic M3-1500m for my Dynaudio C4 MKII. I just hooked it up and powered them on and noticed a slight poppy sound. This has never happened with any of my previous amps including other class D amps like Bel Cantos and Wyred 4 Sound. I decided to unplug the XLR connection from my preamp and power them on and still a slight popping sound from each speaker. I have upgraded cables and each plugged in my Monster power conditioner. Additionally, when I turn up the music to medium-higher volumes I can start hearing a slight ticking/popping sound when I adjust the volume up or down. Should I be worried? Is it damaging my speakers? I called Dennis and left a message waiting on reply from. Otherwise these little mono amps sound pretty impressive, especially in the lower frequency region. Tons of bass! My speakers sound even bigger and more powerful. I have had Mcintosh MC452, Parasound JC-1, BC Ref500m, W4S SX-1000 MKII, and so on. I need to burn these in more to see if they open up a little more on the upper frequency region. Anyone want to share there thoughts?