I agreee with Gmood1 on the active speakers. Amp / speaker interface is very critical. Jamie, you want real? Then why alter the sound with amps? Real is real it's not tweakable.
Try some ATC active 10's, perfect for a small room. If you judge by sound not by looking at them as they are standmount. |
Dude your 14 and have 2.5k to spend on speakers!!!!! What the heck do your parents do for a living? And why are you not out playing baseball or something...
Ok my recomendation is JM Lab speakers. I have a set and love them they have a great sound field and the tweeter in them is amazing.
As for floor standers I say no for that room size.
And I personally love the Sonus Faber speakers but they really are not suited for rock...But I also dont think that B&W is that suited for rock because they tend to be to well ballanced for it in my op. If you want something more rocker and since you are just 14 how about trying out a set of Klipsh RB 75's? |
call ty at tyler acoustics you will get a better speaker that would cost you 2-3 times the price of the above mentioned speakers. why pay more when you can get more for less. its worth the call.after 25 years in this hobby i have finally wole up. go to stereo times and check out some reviews on his speakers |
Jamiec001-So......where are you now in your search? Let us know how you made out.
Bryanhod- Funny. thats exactly where I landed also some 2 dozen speakers later...back to the B&W Matrix 801! This time with a much better amp and front end equipment, and upgraded crossovers from NorthCreekMusic. Thats what they needed all along. Glad to hear you are happy with your Nauts. |
Why are you ruling out B & W? They have the best resale value so you can buy used and if you do not like them sell them for what you paid for them. I have the 802N and almost everyone on Audiogon wrote that I should not get them. They basically said that they are not audiophile quality and what you really need to audition is ________. Well after trying all of these speakers, I came back to the B & W speakers and love them. |
Don't rule out the Vonschweikert VR2. It is a GREAT speaker that can be had new for less than $2500. Awesome all around performer that may make you think twice about needing a sub. Sorry if this post ignores details in the thread.....I did not read the whole thread. |
VMPS are HUGE!!! There is no way they are getting in my room without breaking some walls down. |
Hey Jamiec001,
I don't know who told you that the JMRs don't rock, because they are dead wrong. I've had these speakers for almost two years now and they rock with the best of them. As a matter of fact the speakers I owned before these were Dynaudio 1.3 MkII, and as soon as my wife and I heard the Trentes, I put the Dyn's up for sale. I found the Dyn's a bit too laid back for my taste. Believe me, with the music I listen to, including Metallica, Iron Maiden, Disturbed, Linkin Park, AC/DC and Kid Rock, these speakers rock........John |
Add Usher Audio 6371's to your list.$about $2600 with some 15% off retail which is common. The 6381's are awesome, but may have too much bass for your room. See usheaudio.com for their lineup. (6 series.) |
Jamie thanks for the kind words. What do you have to listen to besides the B&W? Near any big city you could hit and do some weekend auditions.
I know the more I looked the more my list grew. All and I do mean all seemed to have their fans and critics.
Audioreviews.com as mentioned before was very helpful. When you get multiple owners reviewing the same speaker you will find a certain consitency of strenghts and weaknesses. This should give you a perty good idea if the speaker is really suitable for your application.
Once you get it down to 3 or 4 any of them would probably be a very good choice.
In my own case my list grew to 16 possible canidates at one time. Finally got it down to 4 then decided whichever one of them came availble for a good price would be my choice.
Best Wishes Maxx |
You will almost certainly hate this post. However, the VMPS Ribbon Monitor IIs would absolutely lunch every member of your shortlist with rock music. They have the bass extension and dynamic impact of speakers many, many times their price, without the indistinct soundstage, iffy imaging, and honkiness of most members of this species. No sub needed, btw. Shockingly good, if hard to find. |
I wouldn't scratch the VR-4JRs off your list just yet, if fact they are my personal favorites and should definately be heard!
That being said I've only heard a few of the speakers on your list, obviously the VR-4JRs... also the Dynaudio, Totem, Tyler & the Gallo Reference III.
The Gallo's would be a very close second and maybe even first on my short list. If you dig the looks of these speakers you're going to love the sound they produce!
One more suggestion, listen to any speaker from VMPS!
Hearing is believing...
geoh |
Well I hear JMR's can not rock compared to the likes of Totem and Dynaudio. So im scratching them. Narrowed the list down to this, paired with Naim electronics all around:
-Dynaudio Contour
2.8\Contour
1.8mkII
-Totem
Forest\Hawk\Staff\Mani 2
-Neat
-Silverline Sonata II
-Anthony Gallo
Refrence III
-ATC SCM20SL\SCM35
-Tyler Acoustics
Taylo 7U
-Rega R9
-Sp Technology
-Living Voice |
Jrwr7,
If you're ever in the Sacramento area, I invite you to come on by and have a listen to Tool/Soundgarden/Kings X on our Sonata II's. In fact, we only use them for rock. I think they might overpower Jamiec001's room--and Alan Yun (Silverline's head honcho) might be shocked--but Alice in Chains never sounded better IMO.
All the best,
Howard |
I agree, and I am voting for Maxxc as class president. In fact, if Maxxc is available for the next four years, I'm writing him in on the national ballot.
All kidding aside:
Based on your list, if you are going with floorstanders (my preference), I would spend all of $1300-1500 for a pair of Soliloquy 6.3's. I was a professional musician for over ten years, and my experience with the Soliloquy line is that they sound like the amp that feeds them. And they are the most non-fatiguing speaker I have heard. Finally, every person who ever heard them in my system--no matter what speakers they favored--said one word about the Soliloquy's: natural. I have the Silverline Sonata II, and absolutely love them, but they could potentially overpower your room. For $1300-1500, you're set. Spend the rest of your money on romantic CD's and dinners for the girl who melts at the sound of Metallica on your stereo.
All of the other speakers mentioned are superb, but I personally think they will require additional effort to obtain the best amp/speaker synergy, and some of them (as Maxxc mentioned) will not serve your intended purpose.
If you are going with monitors + sub, I think others here would have more useful feedback than I would.
Unless you want to spend a lot of time 'figuring this out', that's my 2 cents, for what it's worth.
All the best,
Howard |
Hey Jamiec001,
No, don't scratch the JMRs, just the Offrands. The Trentes are the speakers to audition from there line, for your needs. I would also scratch the Silverline Sonata II, more for Jazz and small scale classical. The VR-4 Jrs, I think, are a bit to big for your space. The same for the PMC OB-1s, although I've never heard them, I've done a lot of research on them and they are supposed to be capable of very high output, but need space to breathe. I hope this helps......John |
By the way, thank you Maxxc, youve been the most helpful person in my research so far. :) |
Hmmm, I heard vandys can rock, thats why I kept them. And the Avante Garde, people use that in a small room all the time with great results from what I hear. But I will scratch off that Tyler Refrence II. |
Jamie if you haven't already done so you might want to go to eCoustics.com. Do a keyword search and you will find many, many professional reviews of the speakers on your list.
Also you might want to check out audioreviews.com. These are reviews from actual owners of the speakers.
Two speakers you can scratch off your list are the Avante Garde RX20 and Tyler Reference II's. I've checked into both and they are great speakers but are simply not going to work well in a small room. The other Tyler you mentioned the 7U may be a good possiblilty though, being a slim floorstander thats front ported.
Suprised the Vandersteens are still on your list of rockers. They have a rep of being very laid back and a touch sedate.
None the less do some more research to narrow down the list to no more then 3 or 4. Then come back and you could probably get the input you need to find the one your looking for.
Best Wishes Maxx |
Soo scratch the JM Reynaud? |
Hey Jamiec001,
I've been told by the distributor of Jean Marie Reynaud that the Offrand, while being a very solid speaker, does not possess the magic of the Trentes. I would also urge you to heed the warnings about floorstanding/full range speakers in a small room. It's a very tricky thing to set them up and get the sound right........John |
Already on the list. Yeah im 14. heh, this list is never going to get smallllllerrrrrrrrrrrrrr, gaaaaah. Someone, tell me on the list what you think sucks. If anyone flames you I will beat them up. lol. |
How about the Soliloquy 5.3i's?
More choices - more noise.
Later, |
I think it's time you opened Jamie's Audio Shop. Wait! I just saw on your System page that you are only 14. Is that true? And to think I wasted all that time at Little League, when I could have had more than an 8-track player. You rock! |
Also ProAc response D15 on that list. |
Eandylee you are exactally right, I need to narrow down this list a lot. |
Narrowed it down to speakers...Here ya go
Speakers:
-Dynaudio Contour 2.8\Contour 1.8mkII\Audience 82
-Avalon Avatar
-Focus Legacy\FS 688
-Totem Forest\Hawk\Staff
-Vandersteen 3A Signautre
-Aerial Acoustics
-Soliloquy 6.3
-Theil CS 2.4
-Gershman Avant Garde RX-20
-Anthony Gallo Refrence III
-ATC SCM20SL\SCM35
-Silverline Sonata II
-Von Schweikert VR4-JR
-Tyler Acoustics Taylo 7U\Taylo Refrence II
-B&W Nautalis 804****Not planning to buy, just using for refrence
-JM Reynaud Offrande
-PMC OB-1 |
Evita/ I think he or she is doing a preliminary research.
He or she need to narrow down a bit on his or her list based on the paper research, then can go and listen those narrowed down list of maybe 3-5 choices. Cerntainly can't listen all of them
That's what I did and am doing for my gears.
|
Jamie c001,
Once you've tried everything on your list, we expect an expansive review! |
Gershman Acoustic Avant Garde RX 20's. No sub needed - great sound - great looks. Retail for 4300 or so and can be gotten used for your budget. You will not be sorry. |
You need to spend less time on Audiogon and more time listening to speakers. Do you have any idea how differently each of the manufacturers approach speaker design? Until you narrow your scope down to 2 or 3 specific speakers (not manufacturers), there will be more noise than signal in this thread. |
I'll suggest Von Schweikert VR2's....I am trying a pair in my room at present, also small and square at 14 x 14.
I'm enjoying my rock again thru the VR2's, and they are very capable for jazz and classical, if those are your bag at all. They have a BIG soundstage, and are very transparent, detailed and on the warm side of neutral.
My wife really likes them too....(:
Good luck,
Mike |
Oh yeah and dali isint supposed to be on that list. |
Merlin VSM-M I can afford, and have upgraded to VSM-MM. Any I actually added more to the list, I need to know what to take off.........Any companies better than others? |
Ok, so, I can get a floorstander with a lot of bass and not need a subwoofer, a floorstander that focuses on mids and highs and is 2-way, like the Tyler Acoustics Taylo, or monitors and a sub. I hear Vandersteen can rock?? so I am keeping it on the list, heres what im down\up to
-Dynaudio
-Avalon
-Focus
-Totem
-Vandersteen
-Aerial Acoustics
-Dali -1
-Soliloquy
-Merlin
-Theil
-Gallo Refrence
-ATC
-Silverline
-Von Schweikert
-Tyler Acoustics
-B&W
-Reynaud
-PMC OB-1 |
Hurry up, somebody just posted today a pair of Dynaudio Contours 3.4 for $2595. |
Totally agree, Maxx, about the sub. I had a pretty nice one, but in a small room it never seemed to sound as blended as when the speaker itself had all of the bass duties. And the Sonata II's are astounding in that regard--from Bach to Rock, as you say. I've never heard drums sound so airy, and the tuning signatures of the drum heads is unmistakable.
Jamie c001, For around $1300, you can get a pair of Soliloquy 6.3 speakers.
You'll shake your head and wonder how they can sound so good at that price. And again, you won't need a sub. Go out and listen to as much as you can, or buy something, or you could (as Audiomax suggested) spend the next 5 years narrowing your long list.
All the best,
Howard |
I was in your situaiton and I was considering many in your list... I might settle with JM Lab this time.
This is widening your choice rather than narrowing down but,
You might want to consider Soliloquys and Von Schweikerts
Von Schweikerts Jr4 can be pick up at pretty good price these days! |
Yep, Boa2 wasn' sure about the Silverlines. I know I had the SR17's at the top of my list when looking for a bookshelf. If I hadn't got such a good deal on the FS688's I'd probably have the SR17's now.
I know the SR17s can do Bach or Rock. The name "Sonata II" and some of the other names SL uses on their floorstanders, made me wonder if they wern't maybe voiced different.
I agree if you are going to get floorstanders in a 12x12 room, why not get something that goes deep enough and eliminate the sub.
Best Wishes Maxx |
Of your listed brands so far, my personal favorite would be Totems. However, in that price range, with a bit of negotiating, you should be able to get some really good offerings from either Thiel or ProAc, both of which do a good job on rock (and pretty much everything else), IMHO.
One other consideration that would save you some money would be NHT ST-4's. They retail for about $1,000, but I was extremely impressed with them, and it is my belief that they best many speakers in the $2,500 price range. I certainly prefer them to B&W's, but then again, I have never really been a fan of B&W's (as you can probably tell, given that I like Thiel, ProAc, Totem, and NHT).
On the used market, a pair of Thiel CS3.6's make for one heck of a bargain. That's what I have in my system. I drive them with a pair of amps costing about four times what I paid for the speakers (Theta Enterprises), and to my ears, the 3.6's are worthy of just about any gear you would put upstream of them. Of course, 3.6's in a 12 x 12 room... probably not a good idea. 2.4's might be awefully nice, though. |
Gallo Reference 3!! Gallo Reference 3!! Gallo Reference 3!! The most amazing speakers I have heard in the last 10 years: superb imaging, very quick on transients, awesome soundstage. You *owe* it to yourself to audition these wonderful speakers.
-rw- |
Let me guess..It will take you 5 more years to get the right speaker based on the list that you have. |
You can't leave out the Gallo Reference III, at just $100 above your budget. |
I am using a pair of Silverline Sonata II speakers (and the Prima CDP as well) in a room that is 2' larger than yours in each direction. I use them primarily for rock: Tool, Soundgarden, XTC, Catherine Wheel, Jeff Buckley, etc. I bought them for a few hundred under your price ceiling, and I am done looking around. They are phenomenal.
Many of the speakers on your list are superb. I agree as well with those that Maxxc suggested to scratch off your list. All, except the Silverline. No matter what amp I've heard with the Silverline (or Soliloquy) speakers, they sound fantastic. Tubes, hybrid, or SS work well with both of these speaker lines. And with the Sonata II, you will NOT need a sub.
The key is the synergy between the amp and speakers, and some of those on your list will be more finicky than others when it comes to that synergy. Let your ears be the judge.
All the best,
Howard |
Hi Jamie. Don't like bookshelves? No problem. I think your confusing biwiring (2 sets of speaker posts) with biamping (2 amps). Because you can use any single amp you want with the speakers I mentioned.
I do have some input though. My room is similar to yours 12x13, I listen primarily to rock and love a wide and deep soundstage.
This is my opinion only for what thats worth.
You can scratch Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustic, Spendor and Vandersteen. More laid back type of speakers that do better with jazz and acoustic. Wouldn't normally be a first choice for some one who likes rock.
Merlin floorstanders ($10,000 new) unless there much older models are going to cost well above your budget.
Not sure, read some reviews, but I don't think the Silverline or Dali are really speakers one would associate with rockers.
Avalon, PMC and Ariel Acoustic I'm not familiar with.
The Tylers, B&W and Totems though can do rock and these IMO would be some good ones to check into.
There is a problem though.
First. A 12x12 foot room along with floorstanders is not usually a good mix. I figured by your post since you will be adding a sub you would be going with the bookshelf/sub combo that most use in a small room.
You will probably run into some bass response problems using a floorstander in a small room adding a sub may complicate this matter further.
Second if you want a big wide and deep soundstage the speakers are going to have to be well away from the wall. The rear of the speakers probably 30" or more from the back wall.
Third if positioned correctly for a large soundstage. The front baffle is going to be around 4 feet from the rear wall. This will put you about 6-7 feet from the speakers. If you do this you will need to probably look at a 2 way speaker. 3 ways, which many floorstanders are, are going to typically run into integrationg problems at such a near field listening situation.
Fourth and don't be insulted. But by your posts I think you might be new to high end audio and need to do some additional research before shelling out $2500 clams. You may come to the same conclusion that many have reached. A bookshelf, that can be moved away from the wall for listening, along with a subwoofer works better in a small room then a floorstander.
Best Wishes Maxx |
good responses. Any that I should eliminate off my list? That just arent up to par with the others?
-Jamie |
That is a small room. I saw a pair of Dynaudio 25's for $2500 today on audiogon. I love Dyn's. |
Well good luck anyway! I would not put floorstanders in a 12x12 room ..it can turn into a real headache.I suppose that's also a part of the fun..finding out when something doesn't work.Been there done that. The sound can be altered by just changing preamps or tubes in a preamp on any system regardless of the amplifier used. That's what tubes are made for.
Have Fun! |
I like Audio Physik and Meadowlark (pre-owned) in your range, and Verity Audio out of it, even second-hand ;o)
Oooh, you're gonna have fun listening to all that. Let us know what you find out, if you get the chance. |
Hello Jamiec001,
I have the same taste in music as you and I love my Jean Marie Reynaud Trentes. They will do everything you've discribed above and more. They are so good, they will also help you appreciate many other types of music, as they've done for me. Since I've had these speakers in my system, my cd collection has more then doubled. The new, to me, artists include Roxy Music, Bill Frisell, Ryan Adams, Michael Buble, Thomas Dolby, Junior Wells, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Jennifer Warnes, Howlin' Wolf, Kenny Burrell and the list continues to grow. I've always been a big rock fan, Led Zep, The Who, Jimi, The Doors. I also love what is now considered alternative, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, SoundGarden, Janes Addiction, et all. You mentioned you will be adding a sub, these speakers also work very well with the pair of Rel Strata IIIs I've matched them with. These speakers have really helped me appreciate my system and the music much more then I used to........John |
