Silverline Sonata III & McIntosh MC275?

Blindjim and I have differing viewpoints regarding the Sonata III and amplification matches, which just goes to illustrate that we all have different preferences.

I also own Sonata III. I tried a handful of amps with them, including two tube amps: VAC 160 MusicBlocs (160 wpc KT88), and Atma-Sphere M-60 (60 wpc OTL). In all cases, a Lamm L2 Reference preamp was used.
Neither amp produced a balanced tonal response. In each case, bass was loose and uncontrolled, and was reproduced with less volume than were midrange and treble frequencies. The result was a tipped up sound.

For me, the absolute best match is Pass Labs XA-60.5 Class A solid state amps. Tremendously controlled and fully realized bass. Superb tonal balance. Alan Yun voices his speakers with Pass Labs, and he demonstrates them with Pass Labs at audio shows. He recommended Pass Labs to me when I asked about amplification. For several months I resisted spending the money and tried to find less expensive alternatives. Belles solid state amplification worked well, as did a couple of digital amps. However, in the end, Pass Labs was so clearly superior that I wrote the check.

That's my experience with the Sonata III. As I wrote initially, Blindjim has a different point of view, and frankly, I don't think either of us is right or wrong. It comes down to the listener.

If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy what I consider to be a more tube friendly speaker with a minimum nominal impedance of 8 ohms and a flat impedance curve (Sonata III do not have a flat impedance curve).

There is an Audiogon member who had a MAC 2275/Sonata III combo. I've been wracking my brain trying to remember his moniker. Perhaps he'll read this thread and chime in...

Member "Velo62"!

I am 98% certain he had a MC2275/Sonata III combo for a while.

Send him an email.

Ask Tvad if he tried taps other than the eight ohm taps on his tube amp setups.

I tried 2 ohms, 4 ohms and 8 ohms. Using Speltz ZeroFormers, I also tried 12 ohms and 16 ohms (this was only tried with Atma-Sphere M-60 OTL amplifiers).

If I were buying speakers to match with tubes, I'd first consider: Coincident, Reference 3A, Audiokinesis, Classic Audio Reproductions, Devore, and Merlin.

03-10-09: Blindjim
it seems if you buy them right from Alan, you should have no problems.

What problems are you referring to? Bass response due to amplifier match?

If so, you will see that Marty_t mentions that the bass response on his Sonata III was deeper and firmer when he mated them with MBL 8011 solid state amps. His speakers were delivered and set up by Alan.

03-09-09: Marty_t
I have a pair of Sonata Silverline III speakers for about 2 years. At first I had a pair of Cary 805 AV amps. The sound was excellent, I purchased these from Alan and he delivered them and helped me set them up. The Cary's were stolen and I replaced them with a pair of MBL 8011 mono amps. The MBL had deeper and firmer bass.

Perhaps I have missed the mention of the problems you are referring to.

I have not heard the Reference 3A speakers.

For the record, I tried only four amps with my Sonata III: VAC 160 Musicblocs, Atma-Sphere M-60, Belles and Pass Labs.

The Belles and Pass Labs amps produced the best bass in terms of definition, clarity and control.

I have visited Silverline Audio at two CES shows. Each time, Alan has demonstrated his speakers using Pass Labs amplification. I imagine he endeavors to have his speakers sound their best at shows, and he uses the amplification that provides the sound he desires. What else need be said?

I've done nothing but offer my experiences with the Sonata III speakers using PP and OTL tube amps and solid state amps. I've not criticized anyone else's choices. We all hear differently and have different preferences. Why my balls are being broken here, I can't quite understand.

About 2ft in front of CD racks is the best I can manage. Has anyone any views on this? thanks
David12 (System | Threads | Answers)

What distance from the side walls is available to you?

Did you ever contact member, Velo62, who owned Sonata III and a MC2275 integrated amp?

Isn't the MC2275 power output similar to a MC275?

Samzx12, your alternative explanations don't hold any water. Sorry.

Alan Yun doesn't just demo his speakers with Pass Labs, he voices his
speakers with Pass Labs. He told me this in a conversation I had with him
subsequent to my Sonata III purchase. If you have ever met Alan Yun, you
would know how exacting the man is. I do not believe he uses Pass Labs for
any other reason than the amplifiers provide transparent, refined power that
enables him to design his speakers to sound the way he wants them to
sound.

However, I really don't want this thread to turn into an unnecessary sidebar
about why Yun uses Pass Labs amps.

From my experience with the Silverline speakers I own, and
from hearing several models of Silverline speakers at audio shows, including
the modest Minuet model, Pass Labs amps drive Silverline speakers
exceptionally well.

In my system, Pass Labs XA-60.5 amps drive the Sonata III better than any
other amplification I have heard: transparent, extended and tonally balanced.
I suspect if you were to ask two local audiophiles who have heard all the
iterations of my Sonata III amplifier matches, they would agree. I am certain
at least one of them would.

I don't expect my preferences to extend to everyone (or anyone), however I
would hope that my experience married with Yun's recommendation and
application would, at the very least, motivate someone to consider
auditioning a Pass Labs amp with Silverline speakers to hear what is possible.

Of course, this does nothing to help the OP, who is trying to find speakers to
mate with his MC275. FWIW, doing a search of "MC275" and "MC-275" in the
Audiogon Virtual Systems returns a total of 32 systems using this amp.
Perhaps this is a good place to research speakers.

Classic Audio Reproductions speakers are owned by Ralph Karsten and demonstrated at shows with Atma-Sphere amplification (and vice versa).

Big impact.

My point is and I do know for a fact that not all speaker
manufacturers always use a particular company when showing their speakers at
shows. I was not trying to argue but I dont think you said Alan only uses Pass in
a previous thread?

Samzx12 (Threads | Answers)

I'm sorry, but I do not understand what you are trying to convey.

Also, if you click on the "markup tags" link under the Comments window where
you compose your message, you can learn how to publish a quotation.

03-11-09: Tvad
Classic Audio Reproductions speakers are owned by Ralph Karsten and demonstrated at shows with Atma-Sphere amplification (and vice versa).

This statement is a little confusing.

To be clear, Karsten owns a pair of Classic Audio Reproductions speakers, not the Classic Audio Reproductions company.

Thanks for the examples, Samzx12. I understand now. I wasn't trying to be difficult.

03-12-09: Bondmanp
I have heard Alan's speakers at two HE shows in NYC. The first time, he was
demonstrating the Boleros with his homemade flea-watt tube amp. (The
sound was delicious, btw, and to date, the Boleros remain my dream
speaker).

Thanks for sharing that info, Bondamp. It's interesting that Alan chose to use
different amplification. Did he have a Pass Labs amp in the room? I wonder if
he decided he didn't want to ship his Pass amp for reasons of economy or risk
of damage. I believe the Pass Labs amp he used at the two shows I attended
is his own personal amplifier, rather than a Pass Labs show demonstrator.
Since he lives in California and the show you attended was in New York, the
cost and risk of shipping a 150 pound Pass Labs X-600.5 could be
prohibitive.

FWIW, at my request, Alan Yun did demonstrate his SR-17 speakers with his
Silverline tube amp (can't recall the tubes or power output, but it was his own
design, and an amp he sells). I thought the speakers sounded tipped-up and
too hot in the highs for my taste. This demo was not part of his primary
demonstration that he repeated throughout the show, which focused on his
new Prelude and Minuet models powered by the monster Pass Labs amplifier.

I had an extensive email conversation with Ralph Karsten during the time I
owned the Atma-Sphere M-60 amplifiers. He once listed Silverline speakers
on his list of tube friendly speakers. After doing some research into the
Sonata III model subsequent to our conversations, he determined the Sonata
III model did not fit his criteria for speakers that work well with his OTL tube
amps (due to the impedance curve and specifications), and he deleted them
from his list. I recall Ralph saying that the Sonata III could be made
tube friendly if the woofers were wired in parallel rather than in series (could
be the other way around...). Doing so would change the impedance curve and
eliminate the impedance dip in the bass frequencies.

However, Ralph did acknowledge that other speakers in the Silverline model
line-up, including the Bolero model, do fit his criteria for tube friendly
speakers .

The conclusion I reached was that for someone on a budget those stacked Minuets and a good sub woofer would be a great combo for someone on a budget...
Newbee (System | Reviews | Threads | Answers)

I absolutely agree. The Minuets were quite impressive. I thought the Preludes were equally impressive, and possessed a somewhat more weighty sound due to their lower bass response.