…and in the case of Blue Fuses there remains no explanation as to how or why they might improve sound.
There also remains no explanation as to how or why reversing them improves the sound even further.
The new Synergistic Research BLUE fuses ....
New SR BLUE fuse thread ...
I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRASONIC-CLEAN-The-Finest-Of-CHRIS-CONNOR-Bethlehem-Jazz-1975-NM-UNPLAYED-...
Overall impressions:
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
Frank
I’ve replaced all 5 of the SR BLACK fuses in my system with the new SR BLUE fuses. Cold, out of the box, the BLUE fuses stomped the fully broken-in SR BLACKS in a big way. As good as the SR BLACK fuses were/are, especially in comparison with the SR RED fuses, SR has found another break-through in fuses.
1. Musicality ... The system is totally seamless at this point. Its as if there is no system in the room, only a wall to wall, front to back and floor to ceiling music presentation with true to life tonality from the various instruments.
2. Extension ... I’ve seemed to gain about an octave in low bass response. This has the effect of putting more meat on the bones of the instruments. Highs are very extended, breathing new life into my magic percussion recordings. Vibes, chimes, bells, and triangles positioned in the rear of the orchestra all have improved. I’ve experienced no roll-off of the highs what so ever with the new BLUE fuses. Just a more relaxed natural presentation.
3. Dynamics ... This is a huge improvement over the BLACK fuses. Piano and vibes fans ... this is fantastic.
I have a Japanese audiophile CD of Flamenco music ... the foot stomps on the stage, the hand clapping and the castanets are present like never before. Want to hear natural sounding castanets? Get the BLUE fuses.
4. Mid range ... Ha! Put on your favorite Ben Webster album ... and a pair of adult diapers. Play Chris Connor singing "All About Ronnie," its to die for.
Quick .... someone here HAS to buy this double album. Its a bargain at this price. Audiophile sound, excellent performance by the one and only Chris Connor. Yes, its mono ... but so what? Its so good you won’t miss the stereo effects. If you’re the lucky person who scores this album, please post your results here.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRASONIC-CLEAN-The-Finest-Of-CHRIS-CONNOR-Bethlehem-Jazz-1975-NM-UNPLAYED-...
Overall impressions:
Where the RED fuses took about 20 hours to sound their best, and the BLACK fuses took upwards of 200 hours of total break-in, the BLUE fuses sounded really good right out of the box ... and that’s without doing anything about proper directional positioning. Not that the BLUE fuses don’t need breaking in, they do. The improvement continues through week three. Its a gradual break-in thing where each listening session is better than the last.
Everything I described above continues to break new ground in my system as the fuses continue breaking in. Quite honestly, I find it difficult to tear myself away from the system in order to get things done. Its truly been transformed into a magical music machine. With the expenditure of $150.00 and a 30 day return policy there’s really nothing to lose. In my system, its like upgrading to a better pre amp, amp, CD player or phono stage. Highly recommended.
Kudos to Ted Denney and the entire staff at SR. Amazing stuff, guys. :-)
Frank
PS: If you try the SR BLUE fuses, please post your results here. Seems the naysayers, the Debbie Downers and Negative Nellie’s have hijacked the original RED fuse thread. A pox on their houses and their Pioneer receivers.
Frank
2,732 responses Add your response
In response to clearthink…Obviously I know wires, tubes, et al have easily explainable benefits, and I hear those...it's the utter lack of any sort of explaining how or why designers decided that $2 fuses are inadequate, although the cheap fuses might be working well and your rig sounds fine. Does replacing an inexpensive half inch passive wire (meaning it's just wire that melts if needed) in a glass tube with a somehow improved half inch tiny wire in a glass or ceramic tube with graphene coating or special end caps or tesla coil jolting providing 75 times the benefit of the standard fuse? Did the thousands of special fuse purchasers hear a difference or just assume there would be one because they're reading hyperbolic posts? Can't say, anymore than anyone can say the thousands of people not buying them are against improving their rig. Many supporters of Blue Fuses already are using tweaks that are questionable as to their efficacy, and seem to be bound to support any imaginary tweak that comes along…and in the case of Blue Fuses there remains no explanation as to how or why they might improve sound. |
almarg 7,946 posts 04-12-2018 1:19pm I believe that the main point Mapman was making about attribution of differences that may be measured in the proposed test was simply that the measurement and comparison process should be repeated multiple times. That would presumably eliminate the possibilities that the measured differences, if any, are the result of imprecision or lack of repeatability in the test hardware and/or software itself, or are the result of extraneous variables such as differences in the warmup state of the equipment. That makes a lot of sense to me, especially when the measured differences can be expected to be small. Actually, repeating the test doesn’t necessary make it more valid. The same mistakes that affect the first one, assuming there are any mistakes, would affect the rest of them. That’s why “repeatability” means having a totally different test and test conductor. That should be pretty obvious. Otherwise unscrupulous or uncareful test conductors - even careful test conductors - could have unfortunate consequences. Mistakes in a system may be beyond the control of the test conductor. So, any test result is only a single data point. It has little meaning if the test results are negative because - as has been pointed out a number of times - there are many reasons why a test might fail to show differences, or audibility or wherever was being tested when in fact there are. |
I believe that the main point Mapman was making about attribution of differences that may be measured in the proposed test was simply that the measurement and comparison process should be repeated multiple times. That would presumably eliminate the possibilities that the measured differences, if any, are the result of imprecision or lack of repeatability in the test hardware and/or software itself, or are the result of extraneous variables such as differences in the warmup state of the equipment. That makes a lot of sense to me, especially when the measured differences can be expected to be small. Regards, -- Al |
Wait a minute. Those who rely on measurements alone as the final word on anything are now saying that should a fuse change show a difference in a measurement, that the difference can't be solely attributed to the fuse? That the difference can not be determined to be enough to be heard? That the difference has to be of a large enough nature to be valid? That the difference cannot be determined to be better? The test cited showed a difference in what could be heard. It was small but it could be heard. It could be determined to be better since that difference has to be folded back into the file to be appreciated. The sum is greater than the parts. It shows a distinct difference, no matter the size. That is what is important. Anyone could reasonably come to the conclusion that having more info would be an improvement. There are now more clues to enhance the performance. There were too many sophistic caveats weaved into that argument, which would come handy in a kangaroo court setting, but not in audio, where incremental improvements are the norm, and to be expected. All the best, Nonoise |
Calm down, mapman. If you don’t understand why your negative test results should be thrown out just say you don’t understand. No need to blow a head gasket. Just to keep everyone up to date the score is approximateky 75,000 positive to 10 for the negative Nellies. I know, but who’s counting, right? 😬 See, mapman, that’s funny, no? |
If I understand the test proposed correctly, it certainly could be done technically. The problem with it would be the same as is the problem when humans do a comparison, attributing differences to cause. There would undoubtedly be differences at least to some small degree. It would not be valid to assume the only thing that is different is the fuse since the performance of any system at two different times is bound to vary to some degree for various reasons. If controlled properly, the results would indicate the magnitude of difference that the fuse alone could possibly produce, but there is no way to assure that. If tested repeatedly and that magnitude was repeatedly large and consistently measurable, that would support the notion that a fuse change can make a major difference. Otherwise not. Furthermore, assuming a significant difference is detected, the next task would be to determine in what ways and how that would be heard. Determining which sounds in fact "better" would be a further challenge. But at least there would be some actual technical data to base a claim on rather than just the individual opinions and observations of a few. Then you still have the issue of if the change observed in one system occurs similarly in others. Most likely not, so the results are really only useful for the actual cases tested. |
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Not that it will change anyone’s mind but for the record I am with Al’s analysis of fuses 100%. Given that and the fact that I tried a highly touted Synergistic fuse and found no clear significant difference, I will stick with more popular, high quality less expensive and better spec’ed fuses when needed. If someone thinks a $100+ fuse that some say will make a big difference, but that has little published technical basis to support that, is a good investment in their system, then more power to ya. The red fuse OP sent me to try is still around as a spare if needed. |
To set the record straight, I have not said that the resistance differences between fuses that are reported in HFT’s paper are necessarily insignificant. In fact I recently said in my lengthy post in this thread dated 4-4-2018 that: I suspect that small differences in voltage drops resulting from small differences in resistance are probably marginally significant in at least **some** applications. For example, perhaps those differences result in audibly significant changes in the filament voltages supplied to some tubes, in designs in which those voltages are not internally regulated.I have also expressed the belief in that post and others that **fluctuations** in resistance, in applications where the amount of current being conducted by the fuse fluctuates significantly, might have audible consequences. Regarding **directionality,** however, in various prior fuse-related threads, such as in the SR Red fuse thread on 10-7-2016, I have stated the firm belief that: Regarding the measurements described in the HFT paper ... which purport to support the notion of fuse directionality:I have also expressed support for the explanation Ralph has provided for fuse directionality, which while recognizing the legitimacy of the experiences that have been reported does not mean that fuses have any intrinsic directional properties. Finally, regarding HFT’s measurements of thermal noise which Geoff referred to above, I said as follows in the "Fuses That Matter" thread on 5-14-2012: The numbers presented for thermal noise measurements are so infinitesimal as to be laughable, being a fraction of a millionth of a volt in nearly all cases, including the standard glass fuse (on a 120 volt waveform no less, or perhaps it is even 240 volts!). A modest length of wire will pick up more noise than that from AM and FM radio signals that are passing through the air. And of course that noise level will be swamped by the noise produced by the parts and circuitry in the components, and the noise that will be present on the incoming AC (even if a power conditioner or regenerator is used). And that is all not to mention that the millionth of a volt of noise will be greatly reduced by filtering and noise rejection that will occur in the power supply and other circuitry of the component. Regards, -- Al |
georgehifi wrote, “Changing the fuse is like any other change in the power setup like a cord or conditioner And this is not correct, as a mains cord because of it ’s construction has very different set of parameters to it’s length, it has resistance, capacitance and inductance. A mains fuse as none of these, save for "maybe" a very minute (milli-ohm) amount of resistance, which means nothing. And could be regarded as differing ambient temperature when measured as Ralph or Al pointed out very early in this thread, when the milli-ohm resistance measurements were quoted as being "the reason for the massive sound quality improvements".” >>>>Sorry, George, you and Al and Ralph are incorrect. Not even close! Nobody, especially HiFi Tuning, ever claimed the resistance measurements provided in the Data Sheets are responsible for the relatively large changes in sound observed by listeners. In fact, they say the OPPOSITE. Hel-loo! If any of you had ever bothered to read the HiFi Tuning data sheets, you would have seen that HiFi Tuning states UP FRONT that the very small measured differences in resistance do not (rpt not) account for changes in sound quality from fuse to fuse and from direction to direction they heard. So, obviously there must be other (unknown) factors are involved here besides resistance. And as I’ve oft stated, the HiFi Tuning Data Sheets resistance measurements PROVE that fuses are NOT symmetrical as naysayers would have us believe. And more to the point - the small resistance differences do not prove that large differences cannot be heard. To whit, from the HiFi Tuning Data Sheets, ”The measurements done so far showed some measurable differences between fuse, but didn ́t explain completely the sonic differences between fuses. One way to look at these phenomenon’s is, that music, containing many pulses can be limited by the electronics being in the reproduction chain. Fuses with better contact material (e.g. no corrosion) and overall better make will limit these pulses less. Another way to look at the problem is: like any wire or resistor fuses produce some thermal broadband noise. That noise depends mostly of the material used. The thermal increase of noise was measured at a current of 0,1 Amp. DC and the increase is given in dB.” |
Testing and getting a different result because of the fuse, nothing else! Changing the fuse is like any other change in the power setup like a cord or conditionerAnd this is not correct, as a mains cord because of it ’s construction has very different set of parameters to it’s length, it has resistance, capacitance and inductance. A mains fuse as none of these, save for "maybe" a very minute (milli-ohm) amount of resistance, which means nothing. And could be regarded as differing ambient temperature when measured as Ralph or Al pointed out very early in this thread, when the milli-ohm resistance measurements were quoted as being "the reason for the massive sound quality improvements". Cheers George |
folkfreak uberwaltz If you knew anything of electronic engineering, you would not have asked this question, as it's impossible to do this test with a fuse. Cheers George |
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Regarding measuring the impact of fuses directly it strikes me that this method may be worth trying -- taken from an interview with the designer of AQ power cords and conditioners
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Thanks to all who have posted in this newly opened thread with positive input. I kind of envy those who can't hear the difference in tweaks, or discount them without even trying them. Why do I envy them? Because they will be saving themselves a boat load of money in this hobby. Of course along with that, they will never enjoy the benefits that such tweaks can bring to an audio system. For those who can hear the difference, the benefits are obvious ... and we will be enjoying the hobby even more than we do today. For those who are using SR fuses, especially the Blue fuse, and Tim's "Total Contact," here's an outstanding music recommendation: https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Nouveau-Flamenco-by-Liebert-Ottmar/222614470195?epid=3109700&hash=i... If this disc doesn't have your toes tapping and you dancing around your room .... I'll eat my hat. :-) Frank |
My Littelfuse fuses are made from superior materials, No, they aren't. You must have missed it back when I posted the make up of fuses (from a site on fuses) that states they're made of cheap tin and various metal alloys with a cheap nichrome wire for the element. Why they "might" work is guessing. Sure, as long as they "measure" about the same. Has anyone bothered to measure them after swapping out the fuse? Like teo_audio stated, with an analyzer? They sure don't sound the same. As someone else has pointed out, it does more than protect. An amp or any piece of gear that uses a fuse won't work unless it's installed. That says a lot about the fallacy that all it does is protect: it has influence beyond merely protecting. As Paul MacGowan pointed out in the link I provided earlier, the amp he helped design sounded horrible after implementing the fuse. It introduces something into the equation. All the best, Nonoise |
wolf_garcia...case can be made for designing better components like speaker cables, interconnects, tubes, teflon coated internal wires, better transformers, caps, diodes, etc., no case regarding how specifically "premium" fuses can do anything but their job has been produced anywhere." You are not making any sense besides the fact that many times people here have explained why fuses can make a difference if you can understand how wire can make a difference then you should be able to understand why a fuse can make a difference because as you should know if you don't know a fuse works because theres a wire inside! |
Just checking in. Dim George still doesn't understand the difference between your and you're, and wolf still hasn't heard a blue fuse, despite "hours and hours or extensive testing". Hahaha, imagine my surprise. Oh my. To those who HAVE heard the benefits of blue fuses, keep enjoying them. Now, back to the music... |
oregonpapa Got interested in your thread when you first brought to light your experience with the Synergistic Red fuses. I had a different component system back then which consisted of a tube pre and a tube amp. I have since downsized and simplified my listening to a Hegel 160 integrated amp. I wanted to try some different power cords, so I took advantage of the Synergistic sale of its Black power cable which included a free Blue fuse, just before it ended. That gave me the chance to try the much talked about Blue fuse and put an end to my interest and curiosity. For some reason after reading the positive results and raves from various users of the Red fuses then the Black, there was little doubt in my mind that this tweak wouldn't work. Because my units took multiple fuses, I didn't jump right away. But since the downgrade and that no brainer sale, the God's spoke to me that the timing was just right. And another fortunate blessing for me, the Hegel only took one fuse. After selling my old equipment, I upgraded my interconnects and speaker cables to the top of the manufacturers line. And that was the kind of improvement I heard when I put the Blue fuse in. There was more detail, and mind you, Hegel already was giving me loads of refine detail. But the Blue fuse kicked it up notches more. I must have lucked out and put the fuse in the right direction, because it sounded superb and I didn't dare bother to experiment and switch it around. My Father's advice was, "If it ain't broke, don't screw with it". So for around $150.00, this has got to be one of the best bang for your buck tweaks I've ever come across. Again, It was like a two or three steps interconnect upgrade, but only cheaper. I'd like to thank you for sharing you experience to all those that are and were open to it, like myself. And for those that didn't, continue to enjoy your systems in its present state. |
