Who thinks $5K speaker cable really better than generic 14AWG cable?
I recently ordered high end speaker, power amp, and preamp to be installed in couple more weeks. So the next search are interconnect and speaker cable. After challenging the dealer and 3 of my so called audiophile friends, I think the only reason I would buy expensive cable is for its appearance to match with the high end gears but not for sound performance. I personally found out that $5K cable vs $10 cable are no difference, at least not to our ears. Prior to this, I was totally believe that cable makes a difference but not after this and reading few articles online.
Here is how I found out.
After the purchase of my system, I went to another dealer to ask for cable opinion (because the original dealer doesn't carry the brand I want) and once I told him my gears, he suggested me the high end expensive cable ranging from $5 - 10K pair, depending on length. He also suggested the minimum length must be 8-12ft. If longer than 12ft, I should upgrade to even more expensive series. So I challenged him that if he can show me the difference, I would purchase all 7 AQ Redwood cables from him.
It's a blind test and I would connect 3 different cables - 1 is the Audioquest Redwood, 1 is Cardas Audio Clear, and 1 my own generic 14AWG about 7ft. Same gears, same source, same song..... he started saying the first cable sound much better, wide, deep, bla...bla...bla......and second is decently good...bla...bla...bla.. and the last one sounded crappy and bla...bla...bla... BUT THE REALITY, I NEVER CHANGED THE CABLE, its the same 14AWG cable. I didn't disclosed and move on to second test. I told him I connected audioquest redwood but actually 14AWG and he started to praise the sound quality and next one I am connected the 14awg but actually is Redwood and he started to give negative comment. WOW!!!! Just blew me right off.
I did the same test with 3 of my audiophile friends and they all have difference inputs but no one really got it right. Especially the part where I use same generic 14awg cable and they all start to give different feedback!!!
SO WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? OR I AM THE LAST PERSON TO FIND OUT THAT EXPENSIVE CABLE JUST A RIP OFF?
When SR came out with their Apex stuff it was pushed as the "deeper higher wider 3D black blackest complete silence holographic .... cables ever save their Galileo wire. 6 years later we are getting the same marketing BS with wider deeper higher etc...
how much wider deeper higher 3-D holographic can it get each year??? When does it stop ?? It's as if a vail was lifted bla bla bla. HF Pro cables at $20K will do it. More vail removed. 6 years from now more vail removed!! 20 years from now the same Marketing BS!! Add more magnets now $30K for one cable.
So this thread kills the golden cow!! Makes the cable guys twist $ squirm! Same old responses written 10 years ago. Nothing has changed!!!
There is a more excelllent way to bettter SQ in your audiophile Journey than wire !!
After SR Apex I was burnt so bad that I never wanted to hear or see them again. Deepest BS in Audio World ever!!! MPC BS!!!
But alas, I tried one of their newer products that made me Realize wire was not the Rd to the pot of Gold.
Douglas Schroeder you need to reread the op. He mentions trying two out of the three cables. Shadorne good for you for trying to bring some sanity to the discussion. And to the OP as well, kudos for posting this experience, unfortunately you can lead a horse to water but..... As you can see the truth is very unpopular, people don't want to hear that there is no Santa Claus. Randy-11 I love that one! i can just see all these cable gurus searching online for this wonderful new cable company.
+shadorne Note he said "is going to transform their system in a significant way?" and "To me a significant way should be akin to changing your TT cartridge or speakers."
Dave....proving that vampires are Really Hard to Kill...*LOL*
But I really like the 'coat hanger' idea...but only if they're solid copper, like buss bars, tinned from end to end, wrapped in the flesh of some environmentally 'non-sensitive' creature that we eat anyway...
I can see it now....Chicken WireZ. Or, perhaps, KowKable..
(Note: Do Not show up at my doorstep with torches and pitchforks. I am armed with neon transformers. I will stop y'all in your tracks and gaily decorate y'all with lipstick while you twitch. Rubber boots won't save you from looking like a Keith Harding painting gone bad. You have been warned..)
*Evil laughter, fading into the Echoplex thumping bass line*
That post by shadorne reminds me of a line in one of my favorite movies, "A Few Good Men": "Should we, or should we not, take the advice of the galactically stupid?"
It has been said, put 10 audiophiles in a room to discuss cables and they will emerge with at least 11 different theories. Now I'm thinking they will never leave the room!!
"To believe that cables make no significant difference is wishful thinking. "
Huh? Did you make a typo? Surely the wishful thinking is on the part of any person believing that a mere piece of copper wire (even some wire costing a ridiculous $5000) is going to transform their system in a significant way?
To me a significant way should be akin to changing your TT cartridge or speakers. Changing cables should not be audible if your equipment is well designed to begin with and the new and old cable is made of wire (no electronics or passive filtering in the cables)
How often do you see famous guitarists switch guitars during a concert? How often do you see them changing the cables to all their instruments and microphones?
Get real. Cables have minimal effect and equipment is specifically designed to ensure this!
Cable threads like this are a good opportunity for one to affirm one's own personal biases. To believe that cables make no significant difference is wishful thinking. Any audiophile able to do it has my congratulations.
The original poster is trolling and I called it 2 hours after he first posted. It is now 2 1/2 days later. Don't you think we have wasted enough time on this?
I don't envision a dealer allowing someone off the street to bring cables, sit back and allow multiple hookups by a rookie. Not gonna happen. I call B.S. It doesn't help that the OP brags of his serial duplicity.
The test conducted by the OP was inherently incapable of demonstrating what was claimed, that the three different cables did not have different sonic properties. What happened in the story is equitable to what happens at shows when someone moves brass bowls around or puts a weight on a SS component. Half the time audiophiles are convincing themselves they hear a change when it's at best marginal or inaudible. He basically showed that neither his (by self-admission), nor the dealer's ears are to be trusted. That is all the OP's story demonstrates. Because there was no actual swapping of the other two cables the incident cannot demonstrate the three cables sounded the same. It literally has the same lack of testing validity as persons who claim all power cords sound the same but have only used one type.
Note that because the OP could not hear the differences between cables he used a test which set out to prove there was no difference. Hmmm... no bias in that, huh. OOPS! One problem, only one cable used! Just a SLIGHT oversight, as drawing a conclusion on something you have not tested (the other two cables) is called an opinion, not a conclusion! If not fabricated, the account was about a test borne out of ignorance, duplicity, and arrogance rather than sensibility.
For the OP to buy the expensive cable seems in character; deception. :(
by not listing your dealer/retailer, we cannot take your interest(s) seriously. It is not a matter of making anyone look bad/good. It is a matter of facts and accuracy!
"I just hope your post is true, otherwise you wasted all our time here, even though I laugh at times"
IMHO, it's obvious that the original post is bogus, however, it does prove that audiophiles can't resist talking about cables. I'm sure the OP has gotten quite a chuckle from this.
Bpoletti try silver in six twist at four feet it might remove the resonance and coloration, skin effect might be eliminated, black background might improve, you never know....
Sautan , the truth expensive cables do sound better than most cheap cables, this is not hype,Nordost kimber MIT Audioquest cardas this company would have been long gone if true audiophiles can't hear the differrence, For music lovers who are happy with their $10 cables, cool. I wish I could be happy as well, but sorry Since I have the means of buying good cables that performs on my system, Iam bless with good ears as well, I enjoy music more with my revealing musical system, with good price cables, My advise to you is be happy whatever wire you use, with those expensive gear you order, you posted here, agoners are here to share their opinions, you can either agree or not, your gain or your loss, that's your choice, I just hope your post is true, otherwise you wasted all our time here, even though I laugh at times, I still have fun reading grannyring post...I like the oil n cotton granny on the cable, I will experiment with Kimchi....
Actually good builders test the sound of various wire both in the power supply and low voltage circuits. The type of wire used changes the sound just has various types of connectors, capacitors, and resistors do. When I build I also test wire and have spend a few hundred dollars on great sounding wire in point to point wired tube amps. The wire used certainly makes a difference. But, to have knowledge of this you must have actually taken the time to listen to different wire in the circuit/amp and that takes quite an effort. Most designers don't make this effort and operate under the assumption all good wire, in spec for the job at hand, sounds the same. They are wrong as many of us know.
Coat hangers would be very difficult to work with as they are quite rigid and lack an insulation jacket. In theory they might work electrically but are very impractical compared to ordinary wires suitable to the task.
For sure there are several dollars worth of wire in most components and a few dollars in connectors too. I don't see many manufactures putting $5000 worth of wire inside but I guess most manufacturers would never be that stupid when ordinary wire will do.
shadorne If a system is resolving of or highly sensitive to the wires then it is designed incorrectly. I don’t invest in audio gear to hear the wires - I prefer to hear the source music.
do you invest in the internal wires of the component that connect all the electronic parts, the internal speaker wires, the wires of the transformer, the wires in the capacitors, the internal wires in stereo cartridges and tone arms? Why don’t all the high end manufacturers just use coat hangers? Wouldn't that be more profitable?
Funny thing I just realized about blind testing: it can prove that those that think they see are really blind, but it cannot make those whom are blind see.
*Yawn* Hasn't this topic been 'discussed' to death yet?
Here's the stake and the hammer. Put this vampire down once and for all.
Y'know, just for grins and the 'ell of it....I'd like to see a truly 'blind' A/B/C comp between a 'high end' cable (pick one...you're 'fav', why not), a decent 12AWG copper line with tinned ends ('horrors!'), and a good Bluetooth link 'twixt amps and the speakers. Pick the speakers and other equipment by a lottery...although that'll probably please nobody. But that's democracy for you....;)
I'll bet that if it's done Correctly, Truly Blind, that the opinions that would come out of it would be all over the board. There would be no agreement as to what was best. Again, MHO....and everything I know is wrong...
Until then...I'm going to ignore cable forums. Reminds me of how many angels can be on the head of a pin.
If a system is resolving of or highly sensitive to the wires then it is designed incorrectly. I don't invest in audio gear to hear the wires - I prefer to hear the source music.
Not to hijack the thread, but jut to verify: Is the Duelund 16awg wire P/N 81415? I just may break out the two "C" notes and give it a shot. Been using old Monster M2s bi-wire for 15 years. Easy on me now... -John Now back to the cable rants & raves.
@mtrot Just for grins, try both the GE and Alpha cables together - double run. Could be interesting - either the best of both, the worst of both or something in the middle.
I have wondered for some time whether silver contributes to a resonance in conductors that results in it’s particular coloration that I hear. It may not interact with equipment I haven’t heard. Some may like what I think is a coloration due to silver.
But it’s not for me. I’ll stick with pure, untinned, unterminated copper, 12ga stranded, single conductor wire twisted at about three twists in two feet of cable pair run.
so sayeth the man who's got a lifetime subscription to The Audio Cheapskate. Of course I'm one to talk since I don't use cables or interconnects. Is that wrong?
If cables make a big difference (and I believe they can in some cases) then the audio gear is not doing a good job to begin with. Audio gear is not supposed to highlight the interconnecting wires but the source material!!!
Individual preferences are the heart of the hobby. Denial without experience is not. Products should be tried before judgement using manufacturers' instructions and a great amount of common sense (re: setup and settling time) and then judged accordingly. Let the chips fall where they may..
I did a single-blind test with Mogami 14 guage stranded vs. Wireworld Eclipse 6 using neighbors who are jazz fans but not audiophiles at all.
I did not mention which cable was which and was careful not to go "oh, but wait, this is going to be better!" while swapping cables. Which cables were being used was impossible for them to tell at listening position. I was using a Theta Casanova, with Yamaha P2100 solid state amp.
In particular, I did ask them to pay attention to imaging and high end.
Here's the cool part:
They heard what I heard. Mogami had more mid and treble. Wireworld imaged better.
The uncool part:
My jazz friends absolutely preferred Mogami. They didn't care about imaging at all and preferred the Mogami for sound quality.
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