Fed Ex Ground Shipping Woes

Onhwy61 offers a perfect case study of why the Audiogon position statement quoted above is flawed.

Yes, Audiogon needs to say this is the normal way to deal with this situation. I once sold a quality turntable to a guy that FedEx Ground nearly destroyed and returned to me. Even the FedEx guy who returned it said "it looks like we did our best to destroy it."

FedEx said that they would consider repairing it but not declare it totaled. It was made in the UK, and I quickly moved to contact the company and to send pictures. Fortunately they were very helpful and gave a "worse case" estimate that FedEx honored. I sent it off and the company did and excellent repair.

The buyer in the mean time was bitching about my screwing him. When he got it back in first class condition, he apologized to me repeatedly.

AFAIK, the buyer is NEVER left with the product AND the money. I've had a couple of these experiences from both sides, buyer and seller. For me, it's always worked out (knock wood). The buyer holds the package for the shipping company to come and inspect it, at which point the shipping company will claim the product. FWIW, NEVER return ship a damaged product, for the shipping company will claim that it was previously damaged.

Anyway, now the shipping company has the damaged product, the buyer has nothing, and the seller has the cash. I couldn't find the exact qoute, but it is in the AudiogoN guidelines that in the case of damage, the reverse steps should be performed. ie: buyer pays, shipper ships, buyer receives. In the case of damage: buyer complains (and should not touch or disturbe the product), buyer notifys seller, seller notifys shipping company, shipping company investigates at buyer's home and confiscates product. Seller refunds buyers money, seller follows through on claim with shipping company.

Now, shipping companies can be tricky, with such language as "ship in original packaging". If the seller cannot convince the shipping company that the package was properly shipped, then it is the shipper, not the buyer, who loses money.

One last thing for sellers, NEVER over-insure. Shipping companies will only fully re-imburse you for what you can PROVE that you received for it......be it a Paypal statement, money order, etc. So if you ship a $3K amp that you sold for $1500, if you insure it for $2500, you will never receive $2500.....only $1500 at best.

Cheers,
John

Jmcgrogan2 said:

In the case of damage: buyer complains (and should not touch or disturbe the product), buyer notifys seller, seller notifys shipping company, shipping company investigates at buyer's home and confiscates product. Seller refunds buyers money, seller follows through on claim with shipping company.

This is exactly the way I read the Audigon state quoted previously. The buyer should never have the product and the sellers money at the same time. If the buyer doesn't cooperate in the in the sellers claim process with the shipping company, he/she has no claim to receive their money back.

The quote from Audiogon is very specific. Nothing needs to be read into it:

What if an item is damaged in shipping?
If an item is damaged in shipping, the seller should contact the shipping
company immediately so that a Damage Claim can be filed. The responsibility
of filing a Damage Claim is solely with the seller. The Buyer will need to
cooperate with the shipping company, which will either inspect the item at
the Buyer's location, or pick up the item for further processing. In most cases,
the shipping company will return the item to the Seller, and expect the seller
to pursue the claim.

Audiogon requires that Sellers are responsible for the safe transport of sold
items to the Buyer. If the item is damaged or lost in transit, the Seller is
expected to refund the payment to the Buyer as soon as the shipping
company inspects or returns the item. The Seller will then need to recover
funds from the shipping company.

Please note the following statements excerpted from the quote above:

1) The Buyer will need to cooperate with the shipping company, which will
EITHER INSPECT THE ITEM AT THE BUYER'S LOCATION *OR* PICK UP THE ITEM
for further processing.

2) The Seller is expected to refund the payment to the Buyer as soon as the
shipping company INSPECTS *OR* RETURNS THE ITEM.

Note that according to Audiogon's statement, the return of the item is not an
exclusive condition for full immediate refund by the Seller. The minimum
requirement for full refund by the seller is the inspection of the item by the
shipping company at the buyer's location.

This is a flaw, IMO.

A seller should not be without both the item and the funds.