Fed Ex Ground Shipping Woes

AFAIK, the buyer is NEVER left with the product AND the money. I've had a couple of these experiences from both sides, buyer and seller. For me, it's always worked out (knock wood). The buyer holds the package for the shipping company to come and inspect it, at which point the shipping company will claim the product. FWIW, NEVER return ship a damaged product, for the shipping company will claim that it was previously damaged.

Anyway, now the shipping company has the damaged product, the buyer has nothing, and the seller has the cash. I couldn't find the exact qoute, but it is in the AudiogoN guidelines that in the case of damage, the reverse steps should be performed. ie: buyer pays, shipper ships, buyer receives. In the case of damage: buyer complains (and should not touch or disturbe the product), buyer notifys seller, seller notifys shipping company, shipping company investigates at buyer's home and confiscates product. Seller refunds buyers money, seller follows through on claim with shipping company.

Now, shipping companies can be tricky, with such language as "ship in original packaging". If the seller cannot convince the shipping company that the package was properly shipped, then it is the shipper, not the buyer, who loses money.

One last thing for sellers, NEVER over-insure. Shipping companies will only fully re-imburse you for what you can PROVE that you received for it......be it a Paypal statement, money order, etc. So if you ship a $3K amp that you sold for $1500, if you insure it for $2500, you will never receive $2500.....only $1500 at best.

Cheers,
John

Jmcgrogan2 said:

In the case of damage: buyer complains (and should not touch or disturbe the product), buyer notifys seller, seller notifys shipping company, shipping company investigates at buyer's home and confiscates product. Seller refunds buyers money, seller follows through on claim with shipping company.

This is exactly the way I read the Audigon state quoted previously. The buyer should never have the product and the sellers money at the same time. If the buyer doesn't cooperate in the in the sellers claim process with the shipping company, he/she has no claim to receive their money back.

The quote from Audiogon is very specific. Nothing needs to be read into it:

What if an item is damaged in shipping?
If an item is damaged in shipping, the seller should contact the shipping
company immediately so that a Damage Claim can be filed. The responsibility
of filing a Damage Claim is solely with the seller. The Buyer will need to
cooperate with the shipping company, which will either inspect the item at
the Buyer's location, or pick up the item for further processing. In most cases,
the shipping company will return the item to the Seller, and expect the seller
to pursue the claim.

Audiogon requires that Sellers are responsible for the safe transport of sold
items to the Buyer. If the item is damaged or lost in transit, the Seller is
expected to refund the payment to the Buyer as soon as the shipping
company inspects or returns the item. The Seller will then need to recover
funds from the shipping company.

Please note the following statements excerpted from the quote above:

1) The Buyer will need to cooperate with the shipping company, which will
EITHER INSPECT THE ITEM AT THE BUYER'S LOCATION *OR* PICK UP THE ITEM
for further processing.

2) The Seller is expected to refund the payment to the Buyer as soon as the
shipping company INSPECTS *OR* RETURNS THE ITEM.

Note that according to Audiogon's statement, the return of the item is not an
exclusive condition for full immediate refund by the Seller. The minimum
requirement for full refund by the seller is the inspection of the item by the
shipping company at the buyer's location.

This is a flaw, IMO.

A seller should not be without both the item and the funds.

Tvad, while I do agree with your extreme example, it has been my experience that sellers and buyers can work together to satisfy both.
You seem to be stuck on the fact that the buyer can hold both product AND money. I have never found this to be the case. In the few times when I had shipping damage, I instructed the buyer to hold the item for inspection of the shipping company. On both occasions the shipping company picked up the item for further inspection.

Once the shipping company had the item in their hands, I refunded the buyer his money. I then persued the shipping company for damage payments, which I received in both cases.

Now I certainly could be paranoid, and feel the buyer is a scam artist, but I have not found this to be true yet...for me. Saying that, I would not refund the buyer the funds as long as the buyer maintained control of the item.

In the end, common sense should prevail on both parties. If it doesn't, then we panic. From my experiences, I've only paniced as a buyer......thank goodness for my CC bank to bail me out of a couple of bad sales. In both cases, I gave the damaged unit up to Paypal or the bank before my credit was cleared, only because the shipper was in cognito.

Cheers,
John

05-05-09: Jmcgrogan2
Tvad, while I do agree with your extreme example, it has been my experience that sellers and buyers can work together to satisfy both.
You seem to be stuck on the fact that the buyer can hold both product AND money.

To be precise, I am stuck on the fact that Audiogon policy allows the buyer to hold both the item and the money, and that there are some Audiogon members who will point to this in defense of their actions.

I am absolutely one who believes in compromise, and all my disputes over shipping damages (two) have been resolved amicably.

However, there are times when what's in print (shall we use the term "contract") will be followed to the letter when one party in a transaction has something to lose (or gain).