1. Home
  2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
undertow
1,032 posts
 
Volley
Oh and sorry what I mean by the odd shape of the duelund above is installing it is a task in my case for this electronic device, and may not fit as professionally as I would like. The MR is super huge too but with the round shape can probably make it work with some standoff from the board or something. Also I highly suggest reading that MR white paper again, it will sink in more and somethings I missed on the first run thru, also watch the video a second time, and you might be swayed that for the price they should be right there if not better in some applications than the top mundorfs or duelunds.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow
I did not mean anything bad against Clarity Cap. I see from Tony Gee they are rated very highly. I would have had them in my test if they were available from same supplier.

I just did not like a couple of Clarity's comment's. Like this one.

"The new MR range harnesses all of the knowledge gathered throughout the research programme and we believes offers the market a superior product based upon science and research rather than
snake oil".

I am not sure who they are trying to discredit the Teflon's or Duelund?

Another quote
"Specifically, we wanted to understand the
underlying technology of our capacitors, without looking at exotic materials and strange assemblies".

Again who are they trying to discredit?

I just did not like those comments but do look forward to what you think of them! I also am a little touchy when the industry seems to protect the current ways of doing things. I remember getting back into vinyl after being barraged when digital came in about no tics and pops like all would be great. I am also a little ticked at finding out how good vintage tubes sound after my dealer kind of told me tube people were also a little odd?

I do also want to hear more than just tweeter caps and can't wait till they are here. I do also realise Duelund is very expensive!
undertow
1,032 posts
 
Volley no offense but I believe both of those comments you cut are very just well "universal", they basically said well we decided to see if different shapes and materials were simply different shapes and materials not necessarily contributing to sound but contributing to the type of design necessary to use these materials they chose, I don't see that they were trying to discredit or say anything was wrong with other designs..I mean come on you don't see everybody including duelund trying to give a little extra fluff to their design marketing? I mean they virtually discredit the entire industry if you look at their point of view too!

IN FACT go look at the Clarity Cap DTAC its totally out of control ! It does not look like a cap at all, it looks like Duelunds inductors! So They are not trying to say the types of designs were not executed well by many, but simply that it could be executed obviously in a more traditional way as well vs. forcing a square peg into a round hole.. in a capacitor configuration. Don't think they discredit anyone, and they even state they worked closely with many of the cap manufactures on what they were trying to accomplish. There is definitely snake oil in some of the designs..

By the way I was not totally blown away by Clarity cap SA series, they were nice, and did nothing wrong, also HUGE, and believe it or not better built than even the mundorfs on many levels and much cheaper, but they were just nothing too exciting.. I would not have suggested the claritys if I did not see this was not even of their own family in design, I found the clarity caps however the best of cheaper caps minus the jantzens, and thats their lower lines, I expect pretty good things from the MR so I will not B.S. anybody about them, I have no gain from that, but they just make sense over spending 200 for V-cap or something that seems to probably be no better. here is the link to the DTAC. The DTAC was their previous top of the line till the MR came along as well.. Tell me Clarity cap is only trying to push conventional cylinder type designs now :-)

http://www.claritycap.co.uk/
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow
I can not comment on Duelund in electronics. I have only being rebuilding the low voltage speaker crossovers.

I agree on the obsene prices. I can not wait till you give your impression of the Duelund for the high freq.

That is why I had originally ordered one Duelund for the mid range as to see the effects were as big as the high freq. (worth the $)

On the low freq did you find the Alpha core to be a big step up from the original inductor? I also would expect less difference in the lows as error is not a critical.

I am still waiting and looking forward to eval'ing Duelund CAST for tweeters after being so impressed with VSF.

volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I will update on the Silver in Oil. The last time I had it in I was not noticing the the upward tilt so much as it did seem as hours seem to be smoothing it out somewhat. I will try it again with Duelund and Supreme again.

I need to know this for myself as my other speakers sound lousy since the new caps went in. (so may do them as well)

In a seperate question I had thought of two systems but now think it crazy as the better one just reveals the faults of the poorer one and mostly just sits there. (srreaming for more money!) Anyone else find that?
More to discover