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Believers VS. nonbelievers???? GEEzzzzz

Curious how certain products elicit praise from one body and "I can't believe you fall for that snake oil..." from others.
I have a hard time believing some of the stuff (the WORST example is the "Tice Clock" from the early 90's, that you just had to have in the same room!!!)but in general, some of the protesters are ranting on "general priciples" and never tried the stuff/thing in question...(I myself was in that category on power cords till I tried one) and even if they did, it may not have been effective on thier particular system, but just what was needed on someone elses.
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What I am trying to say in a half formed way is that an honest concern about a product and trying to help guide other away from the "stupid mods" is a difficult path to walk. And since we are all experts and know all there is to know about "audiophilia" maybe we could be more modest in damning stuff others think is worth doing. Rather consider that it may be a path of exploration we choose not to follow now. To say "I haven't explored that but I don't think it's worth trying" vs "you are crazy to think that works and a fool for trying it." is a BIG gap.
Any comments?????
elizabeth
sedond
1,314 posts
 
jostler,

sorry, the point i was making obvoiusly went straight over your head. let your senses be your guide - the science will follow. mebbe in your lifetime, mebbe not. when science finally proved that the earth revolved around the sun, & that it was not flat, it dint mean it *wasn't* that way before they finally proved it. meantime, we don't have to prove yure wrong - 'til the science adwances, we can't. yust like ewe can't prove *we're* wrong. meantime, use yer senses - if ya tink it sounds better, cool, do it. if ya don't want better sound yust cuz ya can't understand what makes sound it better - cool, ewe can do *that* too...

personally, i haven't heard significant differences between cd's treated w/green rings & not. i also haven't heard significant differences in i/c's either, once the rat-shack low-quality stuff is surpassed. then again, i haven't tried the kilo-buck stuff, cuz my budget precludes it. but, i don't begrudge those that hear differences, & i don't need scientific proof to be able to believe them. i *have* heard significant differences w/speaker cabling & w/power conditioners, & i don't need scientific proof to believe *myself*

re: earth-sun stuff, ewe say "it was a long time ago"... SO??? not too long ago, in *this* hobby, the same arguments being made today, that cabling/power conditioning/etc make no difference, were being made about power amplifiers. now, partly due to scientific adwances, & partly due to the fact that people who listen to home stereo aren't deaf, wirtually *no one* argues today that all amps sound alike...

regards, doug *so objective that i know there's more we *don't* know than what we *do* know* sedon

479058's avatar
479058
105 posts
 
Sedond: Actually, there remains a sizeable pool of people who have studied amplifiers and are quite convinced that a large majority of them are indeed sonically indistinguishable. The fact that you keep your head in the sand does not make the entire universe a beach.
jadem6's avatar
jadem6
1,071 posts
 
Jostler, I don't understand you. They are "convinced that a large majority of them......" Based on what science? I doubt all the proper testing has been done for anyone to scientificly state there is no difference. I believe your totally backward in your apraisal, I say I hear something, you prove it doesn't exist, not I prove it does. What school taught you to protect your turf and doubt everything? Sounds corporate to me.
479058's avatar
479058
105 posts
 
Jadem: The science involves objective listening tests (as opposed to the kind most audiophiles do most of the time). Two amps, both operating within their design parameters (e.g., not clipping) and not having any substantial frequency response or distortion anomalies, will not be distinguishable in the kind of objective tests I'm sure you will tell me you don't believe in. Of course, this is also supported by plenty of evidence that listeners cannot distinguish small FR variations or low levels of distortion, which are the only things that distinguish most amps (tubes, and especially SETs, being obvious exceptions). It's an experiement that's been done many times, which is why the burden of proof now rests with those who want to claim otherwise. That's how science works.
sedond
1,314 posts
 
no, my head's not in the sand - i don't need proof for what i can hear - i already *have* it. those who don't believe that there's a difference yust cuz it hasn't yet been measured are the ones w/their heads in the sand. like the flat earth, proofs *will* come, cuz folks *can* hear differences.

re: amp testing, set upa a test w/two amps that meet your description, & i'm sure that they will either be distinguishable - or not - depending on who is running the test & how. while i *am* for objective testing, it's been shown many times that *objectivity* is not easily attained. kind of a catch-22. we all yust have to do the best we can. jadem6 states directly wghat i inferred - prove to me differences in sound *don't* exist.

doug s.

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