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Believers VS. nonbelievers???? GEEzzzzz

Curious how certain products elicit praise from one body and "I can't believe you fall for that snake oil..." from others.
I have a hard time believing some of the stuff (the WORST example is the "Tice Clock" from the early 90's, that you just had to have in the same room!!!)but in general, some of the protesters are ranting on "general priciples" and never tried the stuff/thing in question...(I myself was in that category on power cords till I tried one) and even if they did, it may not have been effective on thier particular system, but just what was needed on someone elses.
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What I am trying to say in a half formed way is that an honest concern about a product and trying to help guide other away from the "stupid mods" is a difficult path to walk. And since we are all experts and know all there is to know about "audiophilia" maybe we could be more modest in damning stuff others think is worth doing. Rather consider that it may be a path of exploration we choose not to follow now. To say "I haven't explored that but I don't think it's worth trying" vs "you are crazy to think that works and a fool for trying it." is a BIG gap.
Any comments?????
elizabeth
479058's avatar
479058
105 posts
 
Sedond: Actually, there remains a sizeable pool of people who have studied amplifiers and are quite convinced that a large majority of them are indeed sonically indistinguishable. The fact that you keep your head in the sand does not make the entire universe a beach.
jadem6's avatar
jadem6
1,071 posts
 
Jostler, I don't understand you. They are "convinced that a large majority of them......" Based on what science? I doubt all the proper testing has been done for anyone to scientificly state there is no difference. I believe your totally backward in your apraisal, I say I hear something, you prove it doesn't exist, not I prove it does. What school taught you to protect your turf and doubt everything? Sounds corporate to me.
479058's avatar
479058
105 posts
 
Jadem: The science involves objective listening tests (as opposed to the kind most audiophiles do most of the time). Two amps, both operating within their design parameters (e.g., not clipping) and not having any substantial frequency response or distortion anomalies, will not be distinguishable in the kind of objective tests I'm sure you will tell me you don't believe in. Of course, this is also supported by plenty of evidence that listeners cannot distinguish small FR variations or low levels of distortion, which are the only things that distinguish most amps (tubes, and especially SETs, being obvious exceptions). It's an experiement that's been done many times, which is why the burden of proof now rests with those who want to claim otherwise. That's how science works.
sedond
1,314 posts
 
no, my head's not in the sand - i don't need proof for what i can hear - i already *have* it. those who don't believe that there's a difference yust cuz it hasn't yet been measured are the ones w/their heads in the sand. like the flat earth, proofs *will* come, cuz folks *can* hear differences.

re: amp testing, set upa a test w/two amps that meet your description, & i'm sure that they will either be distinguishable - or not - depending on who is running the test & how. while i *am* for objective testing, it's been shown many times that *objectivity* is not easily attained. kind of a catch-22. we all yust have to do the best we can. jadem6 states directly wghat i inferred - prove to me differences in sound *don't* exist.

doug s.

jadem6's avatar
jadem6
1,071 posts
 
It too bad Jostler that you choose to see it that way. Is low level distortion all it is? What effects does this distortion have on other components? Can you have two "identical" amps, if so how? Can you prove the impact of burn-in is equal in each piece of equipment? What impact does the interconnect have on the given amp, and thus a potential variable? If your right though, shouldn't any amp of the same spec sound the same? How do you explain that they don't? I'm afraid your objective listening test is so potentially flawed that I discount the value of the science. I'm saddened that you will choose to protect yourself and not allow your self the chance to learn, but it's not my lose, it's yours. J.D.
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