Shipper is responsible for insurance:Discussion

As a buyer I am uncomfortable with the concept "you paid for it so it is yours (whatever happens to it)" and with the situations when seller has both the money and the goods and the "discretion" to pack, insure and ship. Sometimes “cutting corners” on proper packaging with the excuses like being in a hurry, being unable to find box big enough, packing would be more expensive than paid for, etc… Ever had such an experience? Well, I did and it was bad (and I bet you did too).
My solution to the problem was to use escrow service. I believe it levels the playing field and does good for both the buyer and the seller. It cost some money but you are getting peace of mind. As a buyer I pay all service fees. Seller now has natural interest to properly pack and insure the goods because they are his until accepted by the buyer (or after pre-defined inspection period is over). I am sure that large percentage of the disputes on AudiogoN could have been avoided if escrow service have been used. I would love to hear your experience and comments.

Arago - YES, I have had the experience more than once that the shipper underpacked an item and the item was damaged as a result. In THREE separate cases out of maybe six to eight total, I had VERY specific conversations with the sellers about careful packing, double-boxing, proper packing materials. In all three cases the sellers assured me up and down that they were very careful and would use all the right stuff. In ALL THREE cases when the item arrived severely damaged the seller dropped the ball and DID NOT make good on following up. In two cases I had to pursue the claims which were absolute nightmares that lasted over 90 days and dozens of frustrating phone calls to the insurance division of UPS and FedexGround both which were prepared to deny very legitamate claims in both those cases. I was not assisted in any way by the sellers as they all three denied responsibility. One was kicked off Audiogon as a result (there were other circumstances as well that precipitated that action from my transaction with him). The other two simply got negative feedback and never attempted other transactions on A'gon as far as I know. In the third case I ended up spending about $400 of my own money in a repair. UPS would NOT foot the bill as the item was clearly not packed properly.

Escrow is a great solution. And guess what; you are absolutely right, in the case of Escrow, the burden, as it should be, is on the seller to deliver the goods as described. The debate then is who pays the escrow fee, and in my experience it would most likely be worth it as a buyer if you are investing serious money in an item.

Dan, no hard feelings here either. We simply disagree I think. My feelings, as stated, are it is 100% the sellers responsibility to deliver the goods as described to the buyer. I completely agree on your endorsement to overpack everything. The small investment which can certainly and rightfully be charged to the buyer if disclosed ahead of time, is well worth the insurance it will yield.

Marco

In NH if the seller says "äs is where is" you have to disclose ALL the defects and possible defects of the item before you sell to someone within the state.

I'd go to the FTC site and see what they say. www.ftc.gov

I think the NH rule is good selling policy. If the buyer pops for insurance it comes back on me as a seller unless I use their account, in which case they take reponsibility for transport. But I'd still work with them as a responsible seller and Audiogoner.

Jax2, I agree with you 100%! Perhaps all this "Letter of the Law" talk is confusing, it is to me. If the carrier, (UPS, FedEx etc.) is at fault, due to abuse, they will pay up. If the shipper (the seller) is at fault, by lack of proper packaging, as determined by the carrier (UPS, FedEx etc) chances are they will be held liable and the insurance may or may not pay. What I believe is the point of this post, is trying to figure out who is the party to pursue the claims in the event of damage to a package, and that falls on the seller. All of the carriers (UPS, FedEx etc) make this perfectly clear. It is a hassle. It is time consuming. However, it is the way it is and sellers need to be aware of this and buyers should hold the seller accountable, whether it is the carriers or the shippers fault of the damage. It is up to the seller/shipper to make the claim and collect the insurance. I hope this makes my point clear.

Best regards, Matt