Shipper is responsible for insurance:Discussion


Over on AA in the vinyl section, we had a lively discussion of who is responsible for insurance, and why. My (RANT) take on this,(backed up by the laws about this) is that the shipper is soley responsible.
The buyer has a right to expect the goods delivered exactly as advertised, or, he has a right to reject them. If the goods are broken in shipment, the SELLER must be the claimant, as HE paid for the insurance, and did the packing.
Why so many sellers try to weasle out of responsibility is curious to me. Laziness? Because they can get away with it?
My stance is that (even if the seller includes the cost of the insurance in the selling/shipping/handling cost) the shipper is soley responsible for the goods arriving in the condition claimed in the advertisement.
Many folks feel that by issuing a disclaimer as seller, they are no longer responsible. I say they ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE, and should act accordingly.
No more "it ins't my (seller's) fault blah blah blah, it IS the sellers responsibility!!! and if the stuff is trashed, it belongs to the seller, and a refund is promptly due the buyer, as the seller failed to deliver what he promised.
If this issue could be clarified, I think it would benefit all the buyers and sellers.
Any comments?
elizabeth
Arago - YES, I have had the experience more than once that the shipper underpacked an item and the item was damaged as a result. In THREE separate cases out of maybe six to eight total, I had VERY specific conversations with the sellers about careful packing, double-boxing, proper packing materials. In all three cases the sellers assured me up and down that they were very careful and would use all the right stuff. In ALL THREE cases when the item arrived severely damaged the seller dropped the ball and DID NOT make good on following up. In two cases I had to pursue the claims which were absolute nightmares that lasted over 90 days and dozens of frustrating phone calls to the insurance division of UPS and FedexGround both which were prepared to deny very legitamate claims in both those cases. I was not assisted in any way by the sellers as they all three denied responsibility. One was kicked off Audiogon as a result (there were other circumstances as well that precipitated that action from my transaction with him). The other two simply got negative feedback and never attempted other transactions on A'gon as far as I know. In the third case I ended up spending about $400 of my own money in a repair. UPS would NOT foot the bill as the item was clearly not packed properly.

Escrow is a great solution. And guess what; you are absolutely right, in the case of Escrow, the burden, as it should be, is on the seller to deliver the goods as described. The debate then is who pays the escrow fee, and in my experience it would most likely be worth it as a buyer if you are investing serious money in an item.

Dan, no hard feelings here either. We simply disagree I think. My feelings, as stated, are it is 100% the sellers responsibility to deliver the goods as described to the buyer. I completely agree on your endorsement to overpack everything. The small investment which can certainly and rightfully be charged to the buyer if disclosed ahead of time, is well worth the insurance it will yield.

Marco
In NH if the seller says "äs is where is" you have to disclose ALL the defects and possible defects of the item before you sell to someone within the state.

I'd go to the FTC site and see what they say. www.ftc.gov

I think the NH rule is good selling policy. If the buyer pops for insurance it comes back on me as a seller unless I use their account, in which case they take reponsibility for transport. But I'd still work with them as a responsible seller and Audiogoner.
Jax2, I agree with you 100%! Perhaps all this "Letter of the Law" talk is confusing, it is to me. If the carrier, (UPS, FedEx etc.) is at fault, due to abuse, they will pay up. If the shipper (the seller) is at fault, by lack of proper packaging, as determined by the carrier (UPS, FedEx etc) chances are they will be held liable and the insurance may or may not pay. What I believe is the point of this post, is trying to figure out who is the party to pursue the claims in the event of damage to a package, and that falls on the seller. All of the carriers (UPS, FedEx etc) make this perfectly clear. It is a hassle. It is time consuming. However, it is the way it is and sellers need to be aware of this and buyers should hold the seller accountable, whether it is the carriers or the shippers fault of the damage. It is up to the seller/shipper to make the claim and collect the insurance. I hope this makes my point clear.

Best regards, Matt