2. amps-preamps
  3. 1399374353

HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC

Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).

Well, I should get to my point:

I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels.
I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:

Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.

Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.

Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).

Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.

I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.

I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.

Thank you,
Tim



Much like Audiozen, I am basing
128x128noble100
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
Jtsnead,

I'm glad you're enjoying your new D-Sonic M3-800 amps. I've noticed there are very few reports from people regretting buying D-Sonic amps, whether stereo, multi- channel or monos. Everybody seems very satisfied with these amps.

Sebollo001/Sebastian,

You preferring the D-Sonic M3-600-M-A amps over such well respected amps like the McIntosh C601 monos, says a lot about the quality of the D-Sonics. I'm glad you're enjoying them and hope I enjoy my soon to arrive M3-600-M amps as much.

I'm a bit surprised, and concerned, that you think the Oppo 105 may not perform well in the mid to high frequencies.

I've been using JRiver on my laptop to wirelessly stream ripped cd and FLAC 96khz/24bit files from a Synology NAS to my Oppo 105. The Oppo acts as the Media Renderer/ Media Player with the digital signals converted by its built in Saber dac.

The Oppo's rather low 100 ohm output impedance is a good match with my Class D Audio 440CS amp's specified input impedance of greater than 57k ohms. This system performs very well from top to bottom; solid and textured bass with a smooth but detailed midrange and treble. It may be that my current system's very good impedance matching is a big contributor to its excellent performance.

The D-Sonic M3-600-M amps, having no custom input stage raising the input impedance, therefore have the same input impedance as the ALC-1000-1300 amp modules themselves, which is listed as a rather low 9-13k ohms. This isn't a really bad match since the Oppo's impedance is so low at 100, but it's not as good a match as it is with my current 440CS amp.

So, the big question is, does this less than ideal Oppo-to-D-Sonic amp impedance matching result in the poor midrange-treble performance that Sebastien noted with this combo? I sure hope not but I'll report back after I have the amps in my system for awhile.

Sebastian,

I know your Benchmark Dac2 has an adjustable output impedance feature. Did you need to lower the output impedance setting to achieve your very good mid-treble performance? If so, could you let me know your output impedance setting?

Worst case, if I notice subpar midrange and treble performance, I believe there are devices you can insert between the preamp/source and amp to better match impedances. I'll start researching these just in case.

Later,
Tim

njs
30 posts
 
Dollar for dollar you will be far more rewarded (and financially solvent) prioritizing: 1) speakers and their appropriate placement, 2) quality sources, 3) preamplifiers, and 4) appropriate room treatments ahead of amplifiers.

With that said, I am enjoying the holy hell out of my new D-Sonic amplifiers.
sebollo001
39 posts
 
Jtsnead, do you know what Pascal module is installed into the M3-800Ms? You can probably check in the PCB through the top cover holes using a flashlight so you don't need to open the units.
I suspect they are what Matt Kraemer is using in the Iluminati X2s, in BTL configuration. I almost bought this amplifier but finally went for the AMS1000-2600 in the M3-600M-A.
mcbuddah
93 posts
 
jtsnead, have you considered upgrading your STPSE as an alternative to the AR preamp? I bought a used STP this summer for about $1200 to replace a classe pre that I paid more than 4k for new and was quite pleased with the match to my D-Sonic M2-600s that replaced a pair of tube amps I had once paid nearly 9k for, especially after mounting on Eden Sound's Terra Stone footers on a maple platform. The sound now is so sweet that the only I can't help but wonder how good this little preamp can be with the level 2 upgrade. I'm working my way up to sending mine in for upgrade but have found absolutely nothing on the web to indicate that anyone but W4S employees have ever heard one.

FWIW, I still get my tube fix when listening to records thru a Thor TA-3000.
sebollo001
39 posts
 
Tim,

Let me clarify my previous comments regarding the OPPO 105 and my first listening session with the M3-600M-As.

- I preferred the Anaview modules bass performance. This was very noticeable, bass was deeper and with more impact than with the MC601s, but still keeping a very natural presentation.

- I was not able to distinguish or prefer mids and highs frequencies performances between both amplifiers.

- Mids were EXCELLENT with both units, I really liked the presentation very much with all the test music I played.

- High frequencies were "hotter" than what I'm used to. No big problem with very good recordings, but no forgiveness at all. I listened to the system for more than an hour and it was far for unbearable, but I clearly prefer a smoother presentation, without sacrificing detail (who doesn't? hehe).

- Having heard the B&W 802Ds with Accuphase amplification I know the diamond tweeter capabilities and I don't consider it a possible cause of harshness.

- This leaves the C2300 Preamp, OPPO 105, interconnects, speaker cables and a little bit exaggerated toe-in, as possible causes of the less-than-stellar treble performance. My first suspicion was on the OPPO, but I just can be wrong.

I don't think you will have any impedance mismatch problem between the OPPO and the D-Sonics. My benchmark DAC 2 is configured with 20 dB attenuation pads in the balanced outputs, with 135 Ohms impedance and sounds fantastic with the new amplifiers.

Hope it helps...
Sebastian
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