Jazz for aficionados

The Frogman:

Bolero:

Once again you miss the point. I thought it was composed as a Ballet? That being true, what's wrong with there being dancing? And if you didn't like the choreography, well, what can one say?

Ravel: Of course he wrote other pieces of music. They appear as FILLER, on every copy of BOLERO I own. And if you don't understand how ONE piece can make a career, well you have not been paying attention to the music business.

Don't put words in my posts. I did not say Tchaikovsky would be unknown without '1812'. I said he had a similar attitude towards 1812, as Ravel had towards Bolero. Even Wiki says Ravel 'resented' the success of Bolero.

It's a common theme in music. Artist writes what he considers junk or throwaway music. But saves his best efforts for his 'serious' works. The public loves the junk music. Makes the artist rich and famous. Public ignores all his 'serious' stuff. Artist becomes bitter. Happens quite often. The message: The masses can make or break.

Paris: I read that report in one of the British Magazines that did a spread on either Bolero or Ravel. I am almost sure of that. Can't remember which one. I have tooo many to try and find it. I stand by the qoute. I remember it well.

If it is not true, and wiki and a few more sites report similar accounts, then it proves what I said about believing everything you read from people who are supposed to know.

Cheers

****That comment could not be further from the truth. "Bolero", while popular is considered one of Ravel's least important works.*******

The masses beg to disagree. You use that word 'considered' a lot. Considered by whom? Why do their considerations trump the considerations of the public. Unless of course, Ravel wrote his music for the professors at music school.

***Are you familiar with his orchestration of "Pictures At An Exibition",****

Pictures!! One of my favorites. Orchestrating other folks compositions, is not the same as writing your own. I have made my point, so I will concede he did do other things. Like a lot of one hit wonders.

Cheers

My LAST word on Jazz and influences and Africa.

If we go to certain areas of this country which include, Eastern TN, Western NC, West VA, and Northern GA & AL, we will see and hear people playing their local music. You may ask, where did this music come from? I would answer by putting us all on a plane, and flying to Ireland and Scotland. There, we will see, and hear where it came from. Notes be damned. Nothing to figure out. Just look and listen.

Africa and Jazz: I want you to tell me, where would we fly to in Africa, to see and hear / see the orgins, linkage or seeds of Jazz.

Since notes are physics, no one music type or genre can 'claim' them. I want to go to Africa and hear Jelly Roll and Pops. Where do we go?

Some of you seem to think slaves came ovcer here on work visas. green cards. With carry-on baggage. To you I say, take a look at a diagram of a slave ship. The drum thing in the Us is all myth. It was used to 'explain' why Africans play drums and Blacks in the US don't. Answer, the drum is a poor man's instrument. We had access to trumpets and other western instruments.

In the Book, The Diary of Mary Chesnut, she recounts the scene the day they fired on Fort Sumter in Charleston, SC. She said slaves were running all over the place, with GUNS. Ready to fight them Yankees. If they were allowed guns, surely drums were not seen as a threat. Read the story of Nat Turner. He didn't need no stinking drums! :)

And, where did these drums come from? And what is the distance a drum can be heard? The whole things seems silly to me. Reading more US / World history and alot less music theory, will answer all questions.

Cheers

You crack me up, Rok. There is so much incongruity and contradiction in many of your views that I sometimes wonder if it's all a joke. Here we have a person who is staunchly "conservative" with his opinions on jazz, but is eager to credit "the masses" for knowing what excels and what does not.

****Once again you miss the point. I thought it was composed as a Ballet?****

Really? Given the above, who do you think is really missing the point. The person who makes clear and factual commentary about the piece, or the person who doesn't even know that the piece was not a ballet, nor can notice all of the mentioned problems with a performance of it. You cut yourself way too much slack.

****Ravel: Of course he wrote other pieces of music. They appear as FILLER, on every copy of BOLERO I own. And if you don't understand how ONE piece can make a career, well you have not been paying attention to the music business.****

I don't know what to say. However, I will say that I am still waiting for a cogent explanation about how the masses are who decide what is good when it is the masses who deem the likes of Kenny G, Madonna, etc. as worthy of their support.

****Public ignores all his 'serious' stuff****

You really do to get out more often.

****Paris: I read that report in one of the British Magazines that did a spread on either Bolero or Ravel. I am almost sure of that. Can't remember which one. I have tooo many to try and find it. I stand by the qoute. I remember it well.****

I believe you have the premiers of Bolero and Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring" mixed up. It was the notorious premier of "Rite" that caused the well documented "riot", not Bolero. Oh, that's right...it's another case of "don't bother me with the facts, I will just create my own private reality".

****Pictures!! One of my favorites. Orchestrating other folks compositions, is not the same as writing your own. I have made my point, so I will concede he did do other things. Like a lot of one hit wonders.****

It really must be a joke. "one hit wonder"? Incredible!

BTW, Did you listen to the Muti Bolero? How about some commentary
about that performance?

Re the Africa thing and your last post. Please reread what has been said about this. You have blinders on because the idea that your long-held views could be off base is apparently difficult to digest. No one (O-10) said anything about drums in the US; rather, the Caribbean. You obviously did not read my explanation on "influence" vs creation, nor the comment about the instruments being simply a means to an end.