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Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Hi All.

Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.

I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.

Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?

All opinions welcome.

And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.

Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
mattnshilp
mattnshilp OP
894 posts
 
Rbstehno - I have tried several iterations of the DirectStream and although they are good, they don't come close to the absolute reference level I am seeking. My current reference level ODSX has a built in Ethernet renderer, so I have that option available to me now. 

Regarding dedicated music servers vs Ethernet rendered, gigabit switched, NAS supplied servers I am going to make a bold statement that some will agree with and some will disagree with (prepare for a long response and a lot of personal opinion thrown in):

I don't think that anyone but the hardest core (or budget minded) DIY audiophile tinkerer has the patience or expertise to get true audiophile level performance from a modified computer and a series of magic boxes with super linear powered wall warts. I think that most, including myself, just want a great dedicated server as opposed to a meticulously crafted combination of computers, reclockers, linear power supplies and converters. There, I said it. 😱

Romaz on Head-Fi has an astounding thread running about the ultimate Audiophile grade Ethernet Rendered media server. It's filled with tweaks and mods and custom computers, Paul Hynes linear power supplies, reclocking and re-reclocking, audiophile grade switches, double bridged Ethernet outputs, high end Ethernet cables in addition to high end USB cables and lots and lots of boxes. And they all still end up running a USB cable into their DAC. 

To me, that's the same rabbit hole that tube swapping leads me to. 

I am 100% supportive of the Ethernet rendered music server system and, as I have said several times, I believe it to be the next step. But once you REALLY start researching it and realize how sensitive every step of the chain is to noise, grounding, harmonics, clean power, reclocking, galvanic isolation, data speed, error correction, software selection and conversion from Ethernet to USB to I2S, it changes the way I looked at that solution. 

I am going to try a few other variations, but I am 99.99999% decided that I am going to have the Ethernet Renderer swapped out and go back to my tried and true USB Offramp tech for reliable and well established USB input. Steve is offering a new XMOS USB input which he says is better but can't do ultra high res; but I have been so happy with my ODSE that I want the Offramp I know and love, and I want compatibility with ultra high res. 

I will likely sell my Core Audio Mac Mini and settle on a dedicated music server (Aurender N10, Lumin U1, Antipodes DX, Baetis, CAD CAT or TotalDAC Music Server). 

And KLH007, I am happy to hear the Aque Formula and will seek an audition as well as the DCS Rossini. I promise. I owe it to myself to be thorough and to you guys for following me for years!

I have enough to audition for some time since each decision takes time and energy. 👍🏻
dgarretson
2,394 posts
 

Matt, I think you over-estimate the depth of the DIY "rabbit-hole." In the past year, the approach of using a single-software package like Roon on top of an i5 or i7 NAS, together with a EN renderer, has become almost plug & play with performance escalating toward SOTA. Add an fast Ethernet hub, and the total number of devices for this solution in the signal path is just three. The Linux utilities on the headless NAS, controlled by a remote Windows or iOS tablet, are as user-friendly as the Windows or iOS desktop. At set-up Roon’s software download auto-discovers all Roon-ready devices(including QNAP and Synology NAS) and transparently drops its client/server components into the NAS core, remote control tablet, and a Roon-ready EN renderer like Sonore microRendu. Cleverly, the Rendu includes a hard USB-to-USB adaptor that plugs Rendu directly into your USB DAC, with no USB cable or other intermediate device required or appropriate. Yes, for optimal performance, Rendu needs a high-quality external DC linear power supply(Hynes in my case.) I haven’t yet tried enhanced power to the NAS or to the Ethernet hub, but I suspect that for the purposes of Ethernet transport, the improvement of doing so would be minimal relative to clean DC to the EN/USB renderer.

One of the more intriguing recent developments is Roon’s addition of a DSP engine in core software. Its capability and performance appear similar to HQ player software, but without the DIY geekiness of adding an additional software package on a second high-performance PC. Roon’s DSP engine does PCM and DSD upsampling in software to DSD512 and includes an expanding number of digital filter options. The latest release is just a few days old now and does sound improved relative to the prior version. These evolving features are good enough that I disable all filtering and upsampling capabilities in the firmware of my Esoteric K-01X DAC, and just let Roon convert all source files from 16/44.1 to DSD64 to the maximum multiple of DSD that the DAC supports-- DSD128 in a K-01X. Given the increasing number of DACs that are coming to market with support for DSD512 sources, I suspect that an integrated software architecture like Roon will obsolete much of what a SOTA RBCD DAC currently does in firmware. I’m particularly interested in what you think of the T&A DAC at DSD512, as in the interest of keeping down costs, that unit reportedly puts its emphasis on the DSD512 capability.

If you ever get to evaluating a microRendu, just be sure that you use it with the best linear power supply available.

wisnon
700 posts
 
Yes Matt, Ethernet is also packetized data.

Why not try a Laufertecnik Memory Player? It has a LOT of software innovations and the newly released MP MINI is only $3500 with 2TB of defractionalized SSD memory. The big brothers with built in dacs are over $20K.

I will reach out to the Lampi guys and see if they cant get you a demo GA after Axpona. the Pentodes are not swappable, so little chance of OCD for you. LoL
ctsooner's avatar
ctsooner
2,104 posts
 
Matt, I agree with you (as you know) about purpose built servers.  I have one that Steve sold to me with the Hynes supply and it's killer.  I've brought it to more than a couple of shops and it has been the best server they've heard, but I am not a tech guy and I'm scared to put it on the net to run it via a pad.  Maybe I will call Steve to see how to do it, but MAN is it a great sounding piece. I'd never have made one myself though I couldn't physically have done what he did and most here couldn't).

Matt, Melco will soon announce a new version of their servers.  I don't know if thats out yet, but they are ethernet and it's what Ayre uses with their DAC's.  I'm still waiting a bit to see which way I go. I also have heard the Neil's Music Vault server that he custom makes.  It rips blu rays bit perfect with built in DBripping software, can hold how many T's you need, has Room built in as well as anything else you may want and the price is fair. His balanced connections seem to be the best on his unit if your DAC has AES/EBU.  I think he told me he could do a top isolated Ethernet connection if I wanted it though.  The boards to do that are NOT cheap though, but it may be worth it.  Since I use the Ayre, it has the balanced connections I I'd probably start off with that, but we will see.  I do like the idea of an all in one, plug and play that does everything, including RAID back up and cloud back up automatically.  Richfield Hunter has one and LOVES it.  
mattnshilp OP
894 posts
 
Dgarretson - I know all the necessary trinkets. NAS, miceorendu or SMS-200, linear power supplies. But that’s exactly what I’m saying. Need an LPS for NAS, Microrendu (or SMS-200), switch, etc. I have done a tone of research. But to get sound comparable to an Aurender, Antipodes, Baetis, etc you need to add REALLY good LPS, reclockers, etc and down the rabbit hole we go.

I’m not saying it’s wrong and I’m not saying it’s not possible to get great sound. What I’m saying is that I don’t think that just plugging an i5 NAS with Roon into a typical gigabit Ethernet switch and running it into a Microrendu, with all normal power supplies, is going to compete with a simple, 1 box, Aurender N10. I have a friend with an MR and he will be dropping it off shortly; so I’ll know for certain.

It's fascinating that this has become such an issue. I would guess that in the next few years it will get to a point where all DAC's will HAVE to come with a built in Ethernet Renderer and Music Servers from the big boys will be one box solutions with high quality external linear power supplies and built in reclockers that output Ethernet to the DAC's built in renderer. And possibly even have 2 bridged outputs and a way to allow them to run direct and avoid a switch entirely. And audiophile grade switches with linear power supplies will be common (I am auditioning an audiophile grade Waversa switch as we speak to see how how big a difference it makes). 

Its all so exciting!!
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