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Please Read and express your feelings and opinions....

I noticed  that lately or maybe for the last five yrs, there is so much arguments,name calling, attacking cables , speakers , components makers and more, more of disagreement with members, even Audio dealers are being attack here...Very few know how to apologize when they are wrong.What can we do as Audiogon members to improve our communication to each other? How to give the informations, recommendation to members who need it? This is without involving Audiogon, any opinion or ideas ,  For me this is fun and place to learn in audio...thank you all
jayctoy
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio
643 posts
 

Hi Guys

I hadn’t looked at this thread in a while, but when I did just now didn’t some of you miss one of Geoff’s points.

" We actually can not (rpt not) measure soundstage height or any other dimension, the sound characteristics of the recording venue, sweetness, warmth, presence, wetness, bass tautness, transparency, glare, things of that nature. As I read your manifesto, the ability to measure anything is pretty much your whole premise."

My question is, why hasn’t any of the measurement guys been able to reply to this, very true BTW, statement?

I make soundstages both in the studio and in playback so I could be a fair referee possibly. What I’m saying is, is it really useful when some of you make statements knowing if a professional in the field reads what you say he or she can easily call you out on it? Wouldn’t you guys rather learn than put yourselves in the position of loosing credibility?

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

gdhal's avatar
gdhal
1,641 posts
 
michaelgreenaudio - I hadn’t looked at this thread in a while, but when I did just now didn’t some of you miss one of Geoff’s points.
Not I.

Geoff has no point. I'm not one who believes the ability to measure anything is the whole premise.It's not. Measurements can be part of the story yes, but the not the whole story. 

Maybe you missed the point? One shouldn't state the impossible and then expect to not be asked for any kind of proof to back said statement. No obligation to provide it, of course. I also believe a simple blind test can be a useful mechanism for establishing proof.
jon_5912
252 posts
 
We actually can not (rpt not) measure soundstage height

We also do not know what the soundstage height is on the recording so there is no way to determine what the correct height is.  That means we also don't know whether one component is more or less accurate when it sounds different in this area.

After doing a ton of reading and listening over about 20 years I've decided that these types of differences are most likely distortions that will improve perceived performance in one area and degrade it in another.  I don't have the patience or the budget to blow through a lot of time and tens of thousands of dollars trying to find the perfect amount of various types of distortions to suit my taste.  While I agree that everything can't be measured, when people start talking a lot about something as nebulous as soundstage height I tend to lose interest.  

I hate to pile on but in addition to having an unbearable personality, kait is probably high end audio message boards' most recognizable charlatan.  I say if for the benefit of anyone who's new to the hobby and isn't familiar with the teleportation tweak, etc.  
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio
643 posts
 

Jon, why do you say this?

"are most likely distortions"

This is bugs me about the HEA reviewer, maybe store, maybe designer. Why have you not been taught about the soundstage? Why have HEA at all if you don’t know what a soundstage is, or if you think it is distortion?

After 60 years nobody has taught you guys about soundstages, how they’re made, what size they are and how you can tell if they are distorting or not? See to me that’s malpractice. I’m not trying to get on anyone’s case here, but after all this time in the hobby of stereo you guys don’t know what a soundstage is. That’s like inconceivable to me.

There’s no way I would be in a hobby of soundstages and not grasped what one is. This isn’t about opinions, a soundstage is a real spatial effect. 100’s of thousands of studios, artist and engineers have been creating them since the beginning of stereo itself, even back in the mono days there was an imagine, a very predictable image.

This is one reason HEA ain’t gonna make it. HEA refuses to advance. And if you guys don’t have anybody teaching you this stuff your never going to get past your system "distorting". Sorry that may be tough love, but this hobby is just waiting to grow and I’m afraid a lot of you are going to let it pass you by.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

gdhal's avatar
gdhal
1,641 posts
 
jon_5912 - I hate to pile on but in addition to having an unbearable personality, kait is probably high end audio message boards' most recognizable charlatan. I say if for the benefit of anyone who's new to the hobby and isn't familiar with the teleportation tweak, etc.

+1

some synonyms, in no particular order:

delusional, fictitious, parasitic, liar, voodoo, sarcastic
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