Seller is responsible to get item to you, intact. yes? or no?


Is the seller responsible for packing and shipping? or not? Should the seller insist on a safe form of shipping? (and if the seller does insist, can he make the buyer pay for air, or 2-day?) or can the buyer say ship cheap (even though the seller eats the shipping fail?) ((And DOES the buyer eat the broken equipment cost?))                  
Who should be worried about insurance... the buyer? or the seller? Since it it is lost or broken, the buyer can get his/her money back. (usually)  
My 'take' is that the person AT RISK for loss is the SELLER. And the SELLER should certainly be needing the insurance. (Notice the seller is the person who has to collect insurance, NOT the buyer)... So IMO the Seller should be including the cost of insurance IN THE ASKING PRICE. Since the seller is the one 'needing' the insurance.                   
The other side is why should the buyer PAY for insurance when the seller is the one being protected by insurance?            
I have asked this before long ago, and the main answer seems to be FURY on the part of (mainly) sellers claiming they have no part in any shipping fail, that they say it is 100% on the buyer. (to which I just laugh)Where I would say the shipping packing, and burden of surety is 100% on the seller/person shipping.So what's your thoughts on it today...(like I said, I asked this years ago, and got a LOT of flack for even claiming the seller is the bad guy, and is responsible 100% of the time for the insurance and proper packing and insurance against loss.) So I thought it was a pertinent question. and wonder what all you folks think, today?

elizabeth
The Uniform Commercial Code (law) defines title passage and liability as follows:

"The term, FOB Shipping Point, indicates that the sale occurred at the shipping point—at the seller’s shipping dock. FOB Destination indicates that the sale will occur when it arrives at the destination—at the buyer’s receiving dock."

It depends entirely upon the terms of the contract negotiated and agreed upon between the parties.

It’s just that simple - nothing else matters.  Most definitely... not your opinion!
Now this sort of argument was far more common in the past. In fact I would say 15 years ago ALL sellers lined up saying the onus in the buyer. But now, with the influence of PayPal, nearly everyone agree the seller is holding the bag until a good delivery to the buyer. Some holdouts for the old ideas have shown up to state their opinion.For folks making the claim they put it on the buyer. I do suggest making sure you HAVE THAT IN WRITING, and state it in your ads. I am sure plenty of folks will walk right on by....
Am I the only one who had an audio package delivered to me crushed, not in the original shipping box and with 3 styrofoam peanuts to protect it?? Folks, my complaint is with seller who did not pack an item correctly, knew it and did not care. Not talking about surviving a 10 ft drop. Yeah there are terrible buyers who complain and back out of deals AND yes one should have agreements in place but the whole buying and selling process falls apart when someone throws audio gear in boxes at breakneck speed to maximize profits.
Sellers should always make sure to get full insurance coverage of items they ship out in case of damage in transit to the buyer, don’t skimp on insurance even if you’ve never had anything go wrong. Always pack as if you believe the package will be treated poorly in transit as well. I believe it may cost more to get packages marked as fragile, but that’s worth it as well.

If you can remember, try to ask for pictures of the packaging or new pictures of the item prior to packaging as pictures may be old. As a seller you should always try to take pictures of the packaging, and the item just prior to sealing the package so you have a documented record of what you are sending out and the condition everything is in. Digital photos will have a date and time stamped into their digital signature/properties as well, so that’s good evidence (sure it can be manipulated but the more evidence the better).

Now I cannot say this is the same with UPS or Fed-Ex (I’m sure it is as I’ve had to sign for packages delivered by each of them before), but with the USPS insurance only covers everything up until the item is left at the buyer’s residence/destination. That means if a package is left there but winds up being stolen from the doorstep or stairs or whatnot, or if it’s left at the wrong residence but marked as yours, insurance does not cover that. Sellers should make sure to get signature confirmation; with signature confirmation you have added insurance and a documented record of the person that signed for the package. It assures the buyer will (most likely) receive the package, and the seller gets a bit of extra insurance that a scam cannot be pulled in saying the package never arrived or something similar. It’s only three extra dollars at my post office, so it’s worth the money unless you’re sending out something disposable to you at $30 or less and you are low on cash at the time.
Oh and as a seller always make sure to take a picture of the postal receipt and if you want some extra insurance as a buyer, ask for a picture of the postal receipt.

I respectively disagree.

My answer is:  "it depends"

It depends on whom the buyer and seller agree as to whom will be responsible for shipping.  If the seller ships the item and the buyer paid the seller's shipping costs, then there can be an argument that the buyer gave the seller permission to ship the item based on the description when the item was actually purchased, not received. 

I know people that refuse to take responsibility of the shipping of an item that they are selling.  Quite frankly, I don't blame them.  Some people are window shopping.  Where they purchase an item, receive it, and then decide that they changed their mind or don't like the sound, even though it worked fine.  They then declare to paypal that the item didn't work correctly and paypal will refund the money.  I am not a store.  There is no lookie loos here for me. I advertise the item accurately.  It works as described when I sell it.  That's me.  I treat people as I want to be treated.

I sold a Mercedes to a gentleman in Germany last year.  I'm the seller, so who is responsible for shipping???  come on, I have time, I can wait.  No way on this planet will I be  responsible for shipping.  There are many reasons, but my point is that again, it depends.

I've sold many items here on Audiogon, many times the buyer agreed to the purchase on-line, came by, listened to the item, paid and took it home.  Other times, I shipped the item in the manufacturer's shipping boxes (I keep the shipping containers) and crossed my fingers.  The buyer naturally paid the shipping costs.

But, again, it is not cut and dried on this. it depends.  If I have an item for sale and I'm afraid of shipping, I'll advertise it as pick up only.  if the buyer really wants it, he/she can arrange for someone to come by and hear it work, pay for it and take it.  or the Buyer can arrange for shipping personally. 

Again, it depends.

enjoy