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The Science of Cables

It seems to me that there is too little scientific, objective evidence for why cables sound the way they do. When I see discussions on cables, physical attributes are discussed; things like shielding, gauge, material, geometry, etc. and rarely are things like resistance, impedance, inductance, capacitance, etc. Why is this? Why aren’t cables discussed in terms of physical measurements very often?

Seems to me like that would increase the customer base. I know several “objectivist” that won’t accept any of your claims unless you have measurements and blind tests. If there were measurements that correlated to what you hear, I think more people would be interested in cables. 

I know cables are often system dependent but there are still many generalizations that can be made.
mkgus
douglas_schroeder
1,824 posts
 

I will summarize the results seen so far; the Schroeder Method has been used now in dozens of systems and has resulted in 2 instances, both with headphone setups, where the outcome was considered  marginal, but users still chose to use it over single IC, and the rest deemed clearly beneficial and very happy they tried it. The observations are piling up that it is not system dependent, or not nearly as system dependent as you think. i.e.  It is considered to cause improvement in some rigs and degradation in others. If dozens of rigs show marked improvement, and two showed marginal improvement, and there has not been an incident of clear degradation, then the dismissal that, "In some systems this could be an improvement, not so much in others," is starting to face statistical probability of being an incorrect conclusion. Also, the guess that it all depends on the SUT [system under test] would not be correct.  

There are now four makers of cables (TEO Audio, Audio Sensibility, and now ANTICABLES, as well as a smaller outfit on Agon; sorry, can't recall your moniker) that are making Schroeder Method ICs. I do not believe these people are opportunists, but are responding to customer request/feedback.

I have no interest in a lengthy argument about it. You will either accept the informal comparisons and observations of those who are trying, or you will stick with your impression of it. I imagine that if you would dismiss all these persons' conclusions you would say it is due to confirmation bias. If that is your position, given the additional information I shared above, then you likely will not try it. If you do not wish to try, we can simply be in disagreement, and I will move on to others who have expressed doubt, but are willing to try.

Are you going to try it or not? If you respond with ridicule or an attempted explanation of why it won't/can't work I will consider that a "no" and will move on.  :)

Post removed 
elizabeth
6,726 posts
 
Douglas...              
Just curious about single cables with double wires? So say a brand of cable makes a set of XX with four wires. and then makes a second types with same wire but using eight wires. Would that be
like' the doubled up cables? or do they need to be separate runs?
celander's avatar
celander
1,036 posts
 
@douglas_schroeder, I think you might be thinking of Grannyring and his Acoustic BBQ brand here on A’Gon.

@elizabeth, yes. That is correct. Canare StarQuad brand cables, for example, have 2 conductors per leg (2 signal carrying conductors and 2 returns). A SM dual Canare StarQuad assembly would have 4 conductors per leg tied in parallel. When I asked HAVE, Inc. to make the SM dual Canare StarQuad IC assembies, they simply used 2 separate Canare StarQuad single runs tied in parallel at the RCA or XLR plugs with an outer jacket sheath put around the assembly to keep things tidy.
fleschler
766 posts
 
Some cables are made which incur significant time, material and labor costs. They should sell for more than HEA cable prices in the $1000s and $10000s. They include GroverHuffman cables which one can read about on his site. Just drawing the wire into an embossed ribbon is a time consuming, laborious task. Constructing the 3 powdered metal melded shielding is another messy and laborious task. All together, it takes 2 man hours to construct one cable A/C, IC and more for speaker cables. His prices are $300 to $1000 for his two lines. I am the 20 year beta tester for his designs. I have compared them to many of the best. No contest.

I have heard musically involving systems, even a few at audio shows and salons. The best I ever heard replicates the sound of the recording in its venue but the system costs $1.5 million. My system only does half that sound, lacking mostly the open and ambient sound retrieval of that system (of the deep bass which is also room dependant).

There is too much discussion of cables overall. HEA prices of cables are comparable to pharmaceuticals whereby the cost of innovation results in products that cost an arm and a leg (high priced) for profit to result and additional innovation to be funded (at least privately by HEA rather than govt and university funded for many pharmaceuticals).

There should be greater emphasis placed on the room acoustics as it is for music venues and sound studios. Note how long it takes to design and build as well as important for music venues to have proper acoustics for classical music. Other venues concentrate on sound dispersion, use tone controls for obtaining desired frequency balances and balance controls for performers. What is it that audiophiles seek? Is it even frequency reproduction or just dynamic reproduction or resolution of details, ambiance retrieval or a combination? I suggest room acoustics can address many of these HEA requirements.
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