Lyra Dorian or Lyra Delos cartridge?

"I'm not sure why Elizabeth made those comments"

Because it's true. If you folks do not believe there is mostly truth in what she said than you may be naive or delusional. I have sold audio and other electronics and know the ropes. Most salespeople are either selling what makes the most money or as Elizabeth indicated, something they need to get rid of. Often stuff that needs to go is "spiffed". That means there is extra money given to the sales people to sell it. When I sold audio in the 80's, cartridges had HUGE markups. I doubt it has changed much. BTW, video has minimal markup normally. They need to sell you the extra warranty or installation services.

"We don't give a damn about currency fluctuations, cost of fuel, raw materials etc."

You should. JCarr was likely telling the truth. I too am suspicious of many businesses but I am self employed so I do understand costs. Based on his recent reply to my Kleos Sibilance thread and his other sometimes long replies, I suspect he is one of the good guys. And few would not agree that he is one of the very best cartridge designers today.

Y'all be cool,
Robert

This may be an inappropriate question, but...is it possible to get new cartridges (Lyra and others) at a discount? If so, from whom?

Morning.
Even with trade-in programs and retipping cartridges are very expensive in the long run. $5k turntable that will last for 30 years with minor repairs is okay but middle of the range, nothing really to talk about cartridge for $1.5k is not. For $1.5k it should be a masterpiece. How much does it cost to produce? $100?

Mr.Carr if you are still tuned in to this thread. EXCELLENT JOB on both Cartridges!! I really liked the Delos but it was such a good deal to get the Kleos and WOW!
As mentioned I always wanted a Skala but really feel I made the right decision. And thanks for the insight to the demise of the Dorian, we do live in a tough economic climate. I see it in my industry where steel, fuel and other costs make one look at every penny to determine if profit can be achieved. I think both of your cartridges could sell for more than they do and get away with it. But some seem to believe that PROFIT is a dirty word. I guess they have no bills to pay and no concept of the cost of production, research, developement and marketing. And they feel their time is worth nothing. We all are entitled to our opinions and in my opinion Lyra does a great job at a reasonable market comparable price level.
But if you could answer one question for me: What does Lyra do with the trade ins? My LydianB was in great shape and it would make someone a good used cartridge and I am sure you get many that are.

"How much does it cost to produce? $100?"

Don't know exactly but likely many times that. If you read how their carts are made on the Lyra website or in their info materials you will realize that they are hand made by two people. One does the basics and a master craftsman does the final setup and test. Also, high end products are made in small numbers compared to mass market goods. So you cannot amortize your costs over thousands and thousands or millions of units. Ortofon said they only made 400 A90's and as recently as two weeks ago there were some new ones available. Now you may say that something that sells for 1.5k will sell many more than something that is over 4k. True within the limits of production. As jcarr has explained elsewhere, (I believe in one of the long threads here) his two assembly folks make all the carts from the Delos up in price. So they do a batch of Delos, then maybe some Kleos, then a few Skala and Titan i.

As you are probably aware hadmade products cost more due the humans involved. Secondly, when you produce something in small numbers you pay more for materials. Small batches of high purity copper cost more by weight than large quantities. This true of virtually all materials. Copper itself has risen greatly over the last 10 years due to the demand in China and the pre 2008 building boom in the US. Thirdly, you add the cost of packing a fragile item to survive international shipping and UPS. Fourthly, add the cost of the shipping.

And we haven't even gotten into Mr. Carr's time or the overhead of the office and manufacturing facility.

I believe Lyra to not be one of the evil ones.

Have a good whatever,
Robert