Just for sh!ts & grins I went and ordered a AHP fuse to try out in my EX-M1. I was surprised to see that the fuse that comes with it is rated at 8A and not the 10A I was told, but no real bother. Substituting the AHP fuse for the stock one (a ceramic bodied fuse with what looks like normal end caps and no logo) left me a bit wanting.
Intelligibility (enunciation, etc.) was up a bit with what seemed a sharper focus but at the expense of weight or gravitas. Lower mids and bass were emasculated.
Feeling a bit let down, I was going to put the stock fuse back in when I remembered I had some other 8A fuses from other ventures. Remembering how solid the PADIS fuse sounded in my Marantz integrated and that it had about 2 months on it already, I put that in and it sounds, so far, like a killer pairing.
It's like the music put on about 10-15 lbs of muscle but lost not one bit of it's fleet-footedness. Extension, both ways, remains with some serious weighting of the music and all the exquisite highs and detail that originally are there, are simply enhanced. Sound stage is not affected one bit.
What used to sound like a stark, studio like presentation (a good thing) is now an in-the-room rendering. If you have the time and like to fiddle and tweak, getting a PADIS fuse is a cheap and easy fix. They're about $25 not including shipping and you can get them from eBay. Well worth it.
Access is easy as the fuse resides in the Furutech IEC inlet so you don't have to open the EX-M1 up.
I'd like to add that just listening to the radio with the enhanced nature of the PADIS, sent me back to my youth for a moment, bringing up memories of listening to my dad or uncle's radio, with that almost analog like sound of fulsomeness and warmth. sitting in the dark, and looking at the glow of the gear.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Yup. It’s the same vendor I bought from before. And it’s UL, PSE and SEMKO approved. If I had known the correct rating, I would have tried it earlier, tweaker that I am. 😄
All the best,
Nonoise |
I posted this in my own thread but thought maybe you guys who haven’t seen might appreciate it. Apparently the recording I did using my phone mic is of good quality? https://youtu.be/1dEsSmn0hhgIts my JBL 4367 paired with the Kinki. |
Yes, I saw that and commented on how well the recording sounded even through your iPhone. I think you'd have to spend a bit to up the quality or have the chops to get into the recording before posting but what you did more than conveys the sound character of your gear. But then, I have something similar and know what to listen for. 😄
All the best,
Nonoise
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Nonoise, what size is the fuse as two are available? (Dimensions)
10 or 8 amps? |
It’s the 8A fuse. I believe Alvin told me it was 10A but both the active fuse and the spare one in the holder are both 8A. Also, it’s the smaller 5X20mm fuse, and not the 6.3X30mm fuse.
Expect a bit of a roller coaster ride as it breaks in due to the Rhodium plating but once it’s settled in, all will be fine. If you listen a lot, it should take no more than a couple of weeks but I’ve heard of a longer break in period.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Hey! For all who were holding out on the Kinki EX-M1 because you preferred it in black, well, you now have that option. https://www.vinshineaudio.com/product-page/kinki-studio-ex-m1 Just click on your color option and you’re off to the races. It’s a pre-order and it’ll take longer but once production runs are up, you can have that matching component for the rest of your gear. All the best, Nonoise |
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I just got the email from Alvin this morning....sorry. |
Apologize if this has been answered already but can the EX-M1 be used in HT bypass? |
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Thanks for the quick answer. Bummer since I don't have a separate 2 channel set up and the mono blocks are outside my price range |
@boschpants
You can connect the AVR/prepro front R/L preout to
Kinki EX-M1
one of the line level input and set the
Kinki EX-M1
volume control to unity gain position during HT playback. |
Where is the unity gain position? |
Where is the unity gain position?
Ask the manufacturer, or you can use a reference volume setting for HT playback. |
Ah, you don’t have the amp, then? |
Ah, you don’t have the amp, then?
No, I don't have this amp. And it my mistake! The
EX-M1
is a integrated, not a preamp. Sorry for the confusion. |
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they do make a preamp, the ex-p7 and for extra $ you can have them convert one of the inputs to a ht bypass. |
@boschpants, you can do what Imhififan suggested even though the Kinki is an integrated amp. You just have to determine a setting of the Kinki's volume control which allows you to use the volume control of the AVR or pre-pro in a reasonable part of its range, and return to that setting of the Kinki's volume control whenever you are using the system for HT purposes. And of course the signal levels provided to whatever speakers are not being powered by the Kinki would have to be set up appropriately, as they would have to be even if the Kinki provided HT bypass.
And, no, like Imhififan I don't own a Kinki either.
Regards,
-- Al
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But, clearly, you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. |
@almarg if I were a single man I could probably get away with that process but with a family using the system, likely a no go. Side question would I be committing war crimes by using an Anthem MRX as a pre for any $1-3k stereo amp or would I be downgrading high end amp performance? From what I've read Anthem has clean pre outs |
Would I be able to hook up my REL sub-woofer ABC wires to the amps outputs?
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Yes no issue with hooking subs up speaker level. |
Been reading up on the ex-m1 and am thinking of giving it a try here in the next month or so. I have klipsch ki 396 speakers which are a two way with a 3“ horn and 15” driver and are 101db efficient so I’m wondering if anybody else has highly efficient speakers that are using the Kinki and how they fare. I’m currently using a Melody AN845 integrated and like that the Kinki is much cooler to run especially in the summer time.
Also, I read somewhere that the op amps in the ex-m1 are plug in so was curious if anybody has changed the stock out for anything from burson or the like. Not sure if it’s worth doing but thought maybe somebody has givin it a try. |
Hey t_ramey,
I think you'll love the EX-M1 as much as I did, and still do. My speakers aren't as efficient as yours (mine are 94db) so yours will sing at the lowest setting of 1. Take advantage of the attenuation switch on the back lest you are startled by the first notes. 😄
As for the ability to use something like Burson's op amps, I was very tempted to try them out myself as it would be a very straightforward proposal/thing to do. But I'm getting such great sound out of it already which leads me to believe (momentarily) that it sounds that way by design and that fiddling with it would change things.
I've read that it has a Nagra like tube quality element to it's sound so it could be that the standard IC op amps are partially responsible for that.
If you do opt for the Bursons, please let me and anyone else who's curious know.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Thanks nonoise for the reply. Do you by chance know the gain number for each setting for the switch on the back? Not that I need to know but just curious.
Also, a buddy of mine is wondering what the power is of the Kinki into 4 ohms, has anybody asked Alvin or Mike about this? |
t_ramey,
I have the first issue/version of the EX-M1 which doesn't have the attenuation switch on the back so someone else needs to chime in on that one. Somewhere, in this thread or another, I think I remember someone stating what that value is.
The same goes for the power rating into 4ohms. On the 6moons review the guess is somewhere in the neighborhood of 350-400 watts.
Checking in with Mike Powell of Mike Powell Audio should be of avail since he is the distributor for Kinki here, stateside. I think you're really going to like it once you hear it.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Thanks again nonoise. I did message Mike after my last post and he has promptly responded on this Sunday afternoon. Basically the Kinki doubles down in 4 ohms to 400 watts.
He also told me that when the gain switch is flipped on it’s a -6db cut otherwise it’s unity gain. I’ll be honest I’m not sure what unity gain means so I’ll have to read up on it or if anyone would like to try and explain it that would be great too. |
I, myself, can't explain it other than to say that with the -6db switch engaged, the volume will have to be turned up a bit more to hear things.
With your very efficient speakers, that would be a nice feature to have.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Unity gain means that output voltage equals input voltage, which corresponds to a gain of 1 when expressed as a ratio, or to zero when expressed in db. Mike must have been referring to the gain of some stage within the amp, rather than to the gain of the amp’s entire signal path. Also, btw, the gain of an integrated amplifier (or preamp) is usually specified based on the volume control being set at max.
The Six Moons review of the amp stated that it provides "26dB of voltage gain in just the line stage followed by another x 20 amplification factor in the power stage." "x20" is also a gain of 26 db, so the overall gain is indicated to be 52 db, which is very high. (26 db of power amp gain is fairly typical, but 26 db of line stage gain is very high although not unheard of). I suspect, btw, that the model they reviewed was an early version which (like the one Nonoise has) did not have a gain switch, and the 52 db overall gain corresponds to what is provided by recent models when the gain switch is set to its high sensitivity position.
Also, those numbers seem consistent with reports from several users of having to set the volume control at very low settings.
The sensitivity specs for the amp are not consistent with such high gain, though. It can be calculated from the specified 215 watt/8 ohm power capability of the amp and the specified high and low sensitivities of 2.25 and 3.6 volts (which differ by 4 db, btw, not by 6 db) that those numbers correspond to gains of only 25 db and 21 db, respectively, which would be **very** low for the overall gain of an integrated amp. Given the Six Moons review and the several user reports I referred to, it seems clear that either those numbers are very inaccurate or else they are defined very differently than how sensitivity specs are usually defined, which in turn is the input voltage required to drive an amp to full power when the volume control (if present) is set at max.
Personally, if I were to consider pairing that amp with 101 db speakers I would count on having to put a Rothwell attenuator between my source components and the amp, especially if any of the sources are digitally-based (as opposed to vinyl). And I would also have some concern that hiss or other noise generated either within the amp or as a result of ground loop issues between the amp and the source components might be boosted by the high gain to the point that it becomes excessive.
Regards,
-- Al
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Somebody told me there’s a guy here with Klipsch Cornwall’s and a Kinki amp so I’m curious as to how the gain effects things for them. I really would hate to have to use attenuators at the inputs. |
Hard to believe something like this goes on for so long with all this conjecture and guesswork when one call could save major time. No biggie if you guys dont care.. One of the guys contacted me tonight about this thread .. So heres my experience with the EX M1. By all means use it with high efficiency speakers. I tell people go above 90dB @8 ohm. The best part about this amp is its finesse and ability to play 100% of the full sonic spectrum at click number one of 255. With some classic Klipsch Forte 2, I never need to go beyond 20 clicks. With Magnepan .7i I can bury the volume at 255 with zero hint of distortion, so I always considered it gain limited, perhaps something was changed inside between the early models and now, besides the gain cut switch. I would not use this amp with hard to drive speakers because I dont think it has the current delivery. Lets just say Kinki 215W versus Jeff Rowland 200W couldnt have been more different. I cant imagine Jeffs amp at full clip, I would be afraid to explode the speaker into tiny bitsFrom my listening experience, Id say consider this amp as a 100WPC of take your pick, World Class SS. I think its great that it sounds so good at one click up.. so there ya have it.. Also as far as noise. there is zero.. dead nuts quiet.
all the best !
Mike Powell |
How will the Amp sound with 89db 4ohm Martin Logans?
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Are the Padis fuses anything like the high-end fuses Synergistic research puts out?
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I can't answer as to how the Kinki will pair with your Martin Logans but as for the PADIS fuse, I ended up taking it out and replaced it with a Brimar fuse. At first, the PADIS sounded promising but after lengthy listening sessions, it never resolved itself to my liking. It was a bit too dark overall.
That, and PADIS are not like the SR fuses in construction and treatment.
By the way, you can't get Brimar fuses from overseas anymore.
All the best,
Nonoiise |
Based on my experience, Martin Logan speakers do qualify as “hard to drive” speakers except maybe the models with built-in subwoofers which are less hard to drive. Depending on the specific model, listening room size, type of music, and listening volume, a nominal 100wpc amplifier may struggle to squeeze everything out of those speakers. |
My Rogue Audio Mono Blocks with the KT120's is about 240 watts per speaker....it does the job on my SL3's. The Kinki is 400 watts at 4ohm which would do the trick I would think if it has the current. I was wondering if they could pair with the Kinki amp and if anyone has ever heard them with electrostatics.
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Mik Powell, who sells the Kinki stateside, covered that a few posts ago, or came very close to it. He runs Magnapans with it and has no problem but feels the Kinki is current limited. I'd ask him for his take on how they'd pair with your Martin Logans.
Also, Alvin, who runs the business back in China, would by now, have customers who've tried the pairing. He responds quite quickly considering the time difference.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It depends on the recording, most recordings do not have very high dynamic range so I rarely find myself turning my Kinki past 12-14. In fact, for 3/4 of my listening I have the Kinki turned to 3. I may crank it to 35 at most. I might add, at that level I will be getting 103db spl peaks! I only do this when I REALLY want to rock out!! at this point my JBL 4367 bass gets so strong it shakes my whole room. Hehe 🙃
Please note, I have my gain switched set to high. For some reason I assumed this is better.
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My dac has 2.5VRMS output and my speakers are 90db sensitive.. I usually listen to music around 10-15 during the day and 3-4 volume late at night.. For movies 15-25. low gain enabled. I agree there's no loss of detail or quality even at volume level 1 which is nice. If you have super duper sensitive horn speakers you might not have enough fineness of control at low levels.. if you have a small room or listen at low levels like at night.. |
Dawid Grzyb of HiFi Knights used the EX-M1 with Boenicke W8's which are not easy to drive and it performed flawlessly. In fact in a lot of ways he preferred it to his $16,000 hybrid Triology integrated. So not really sure why all of the sudden concern about what it will and won't drive. It's not like the average buyer is going to pair it with Apogee's or the like. Bottom line is it's a great sounding $2200 bargain that will handle any speaker the average buyer can throw at it in an average sized room. For the select few that feel the need to own the "difficult to drive" speakers like Apogee or the few others, there are plenty of five figure products designed for your needs. Gryphon, Pass, T+A, Audia Flight and others are out there waiting for you. |
@uncola If there was a concern I had about the Kinki it would be the inability to play low level music at night as my dac puts out 3v and my speakers are 101db. But I just saw your post from back in Nov where one could request a preamp bypass option when ordering so that could be a good safety net for someone like me where I could use a passive preamp with the amp section of the Kinki if the gain of the integrated is too high for those situations at night. |
