get a shiet audio Lokey 149
make sure arc pre amp tubes are fresh
make sure arc pre amp tubes are fresh
Non-audiophile needs help with older system.
I recently inherited a number of 10-15 year old high end audio components. I am not an audiophile but do appreciate high end sound. I do not have a dedicated room for this system. But, it was free and I'd like to figure out how to use it without spending a lot of money on it. I am not looking for audio perfection, just to optimize what I have. This will be used for two-channel music only. I'll try to describe the setup as best I can but I'm sure I do not know the proper terminology.
The components are as follows:
Pair of Aerial Acoustics floor speakers. Towers. No model number. I'm thinking 7B maybe. Have contacted Aerial to see if they can help me identify them. They have a tweeter, midrange and two woofers. Rear bass port. Separate connectors for woofers and midrange/tweeter.
Madrigal Proceed HPA 2 amp. 250 watts. Weighs a ton.There are very large shielded(?) 'biamped'(?) cables from the amp to the speakers.
Audio Research LS16 Stereo PreAmp. There are large shielded XLR cables from the pre amp to the amp.
Onkyo home theater 'receiver' that I do not like. Remote is lost. Set up is tedious.
There is a very basic Arcam CD player and a Sony phono.
I've got it all hooked up. Bass seemed poor just running CD through pre-amp. If I run CD player to Onkyo to pre amp and adjust bass with Onkyo the sound is incredible (to me).
This system will be used for casual listening, CDs, records, radio, and iTunes via cell phone. I know that is like using a Porsche 911 to get groceries....but it was free. And there will be times when I can sit down for serious listening but that will be infrequent.
I plan on replacing the Onkyo home theater receiver with a basic FM Tuner/Bluetooth/receiver (probably a Sony). This will be for radio and iTunes so even though it is probably not a quality unit I don't think that will matter since the input (iTunes) won't be all that great anyway.
My main questions have to do with how to route the CD, the tuner and the phone through the system.
The preamp has RCA input connectors for all three. But if I run the CD and the phono directly through the preamp there is no way to adjust bass and treble and as mentioned running the CD directly through the preamp resulted in great high and midrange quality but low bass. So should I run the CD and phono into the receiver I'm going to buy and then just run the receiver out to the preamp in?
Sorry for the long post and appreciate any help you guys can give.
George
The components are as follows:
Pair of Aerial Acoustics floor speakers. Towers. No model number. I'm thinking 7B maybe. Have contacted Aerial to see if they can help me identify them. They have a tweeter, midrange and two woofers. Rear bass port. Separate connectors for woofers and midrange/tweeter.
Madrigal Proceed HPA 2 amp. 250 watts. Weighs a ton.There are very large shielded(?) 'biamped'(?) cables from the amp to the speakers.
Audio Research LS16 Stereo PreAmp. There are large shielded XLR cables from the pre amp to the amp.
Onkyo home theater 'receiver' that I do not like. Remote is lost. Set up is tedious.
There is a very basic Arcam CD player and a Sony phono.
I've got it all hooked up. Bass seemed poor just running CD through pre-amp. If I run CD player to Onkyo to pre amp and adjust bass with Onkyo the sound is incredible (to me).
This system will be used for casual listening, CDs, records, radio, and iTunes via cell phone. I know that is like using a Porsche 911 to get groceries....but it was free. And there will be times when I can sit down for serious listening but that will be infrequent.
I plan on replacing the Onkyo home theater receiver with a basic FM Tuner/Bluetooth/receiver (probably a Sony). This will be for radio and iTunes so even though it is probably not a quality unit I don't think that will matter since the input (iTunes) won't be all that great anyway.
My main questions have to do with how to route the CD, the tuner and the phone through the system.
The preamp has RCA input connectors for all three. But if I run the CD and the phono directly through the preamp there is no way to adjust bass and treble and as mentioned running the CD directly through the preamp resulted in great high and midrange quality but low bass. So should I run the CD and phono into the receiver I'm going to buy and then just run the receiver out to the preamp in?
Sorry for the long post and appreciate any help you guys can give.
George
54 responses Add your response
audioconnection: I'd guess the tubes are at least 10 years old but have not been used in 4-5 years at all. The Schiit Loki looks good and not expensive but wondering if I need that if I'm getting an FM/Receiver with bass and treble adjustment? yogiboy:There is a set of RCA inputs marked "phono" on the back of the LS16. The lack of tone controls may be why the bass did not sound all that great when CD was run directly into the LS16. I hope that the receiver I'm getting will resolve that issue. Thanks for the replies guys. |
A couple of quick thoughts: 1) pull the Onkyo out. The CD and Phono should be running directly to the pre-amp. 2) make sure the speakers are in phase, positive to positive from the amp to speaker terminal on both. One might be flipped. 3) make sure the speakers are positioned correctly. Start a couble of feet from the side and back walls. There are a lot of articles explaining setup and bass nulls and peaks. Report back. |
@n80 That is only a label showing you where to install a phono preamp. You will need a phono preamp to plug into those inputs! If you want to use a turntable you will need one of these! www.musicdirect.com/equipment/phono-preamps/?category=Phono%2520Preamps&sort=popularity%7CDESC&a... |
Thanks guys. mecryn, I checked the speaker cables and they are in phase. Speaker position is a problem. I do not have a dedicated room for them. I have them 8 feet apart and a couple of feet out from the back wall. They are more than 5 feet from the side walls but there are no other options. If I run the CD and phono directly into the preamp there is no way to do tone control. I could get the unit recommended above for that but I'm trying to keep this low budget. yogiboy, thanks for the clarification on the phono inputs. The cheapest of those phono preamps is $175. I still need to buy a radio tuner as well. I'm pretty sure the previous owner ran the phono through the Onkyo home theater unit I know all it sounds crazy to cheap-out on an expensive system like this but I'm not an audiophile (yet) and I would like to get all this running for as little cash output as possible. |
You might want to move the speakers closer to the wall behind them. This will help them play bass. It may cause the soundstage to not be as palpable- you'll have to listen and see how you like the tradeoff if there is one. Corners help speakers play bass. Putting the speakers so they fire into the long dimension of the room helps them play bass. Long speaker cables reduce bass, so do lighter gauges. So you might want to have the amp fairly close to the speakers if you can arrange it. You are better off not needing tone controls if possible- it will sound better for that. But IMO, the ARC preamps are not particularly good at playing bass- to me they have always had a bit of a dry sound. If the equipment has been sitting a while (a couple of years) it may need to play for quite a few hours before the bass wakes up, so I would play it for a while before considering any equipment changes if its been sitting unused. |
atmasphere, that may have already happened. With just a moderate increase in the bass setting of the Onkyo unit the bass was very good. The AR preamp manual also says sound quality is best if the tubes have been on for an hour. The speaker manufacturer recommends the speakers be out from the wall a few feet. The cables are 8 feet long (and probably cost more than my previous 'stereo'.) Since I am going to get a radio receiver anyway I may see how that works running the CD and phono through it and then to the preamp. I'll experiment with different combos with the preamp. Unfortunately this system is at my cabin which is an hour away, so it will be this weekend before I have a chance to test various setups. I really do appreciate all the advice especially since I'm not a true audiophile and too cheap to dive in with spending more money. |
Might be worthwhile to have the electronics and speakers checked out by a local electronics service shop. The price paid for that is worth more than tinkering endlessly trying to sort stuff out on your own time. That’s an audiophile’s hobby activity (tinkering), which you proclaimed you are not (yet). |
I don't think you should be using any tone controls or extra components until you know what your system truly sounds like. As atmasphere stated, play with speaker position and toe-in angle. Don't go by what the book says, this is a system of unknown condition. If there is a hifi shop in your area, ask if the tubes can be tested. Also pop the top of the amp and preamp and check the condition of the caps. Look for leakage or any caps that may be dried out. Also look for any burn marks on the tube sockets and power supply. |
No plugs in the bass port on the back even though the designer (I've talked to him via email) says they can help in some situations. lowrider, cap = capacitor? I will check them. I can see down into the preamp easily. Everything in there looks brand new. All of it looks brand new on the outside except for some scuff on the speaker cabinets. It will be this weekend before I get back to my place to test all this. |
You didn't mention your CD player brand/model but all your other components - less the Onkyo, are individually very good. If your CD player is even average, you should be getting good sound from your system. My guess is either the tubes in the LS16 are compromised and/or the capacitors in the amplifier need to be replaced. Those Aerials have great bass if/when properly placed. |
Tried two CD players. The one that came with the system is an Arcam. Very basic, don't know anything about it. The other is a basic Sony. They sounded the same. I am starting to think that speaker position and possibly the fact that all of this stuff had been unused for a few years are all part of the problem. When I first assessed the system I had the speakers in the middle of the floor a few feet apart. My wife thought the bass sounded fine but it seemed 'thin' to me. Once I got them positioned more reasonably, let the system warm up and played them for a while they did sound a lot better. And again, I'm not an audiophile and I may just be used to stuff with too much bass. With the bass turned up a little on the Onkyo home theater system everything sounded awesome. I sat and listened to several albums of different types. When I went back to my Bose bookshelf speakers with an old 25 watt Toshiba receiver they sounded pretty bad in comparison whereas they sounded fine before I got this high end stuff. This weekend I will fiddle with positioning, run the CD back directly through the preamp and see what it sounds like. I am still going to get the Sony FM/Bluetooth receiver since I want Bluetooth capability and radio anyway. If I decide to get rid of this system I can still use it with my Bose bookshelfs. Have to admit though, now that I have this stuff and have heard what seems to me like quality audio, I'm kind of getting the audiophile bug a little bit. I've already got several hobbies I obsess about and spend too much money on so I don't think I'll ever be a fetishist with this stuff but the sound is addicting. |
indeed. If you think its worth it to do something to make it sound better now that you've got a glimpse of the greatness that lies within, you do indeed have some audiophile tendencies stirring :) If you want a little tip from someone that's been at it a long time: have fun. That's it- just have fun with it and don't get obsessive. If you find that you like what you hear, there is a whole world out there of stuff you can get and things you can do that will continue to make improvements... just keep the fun part in mind, and enjoy the music. |
have you considered selling the pre-amp / amp and using that money to buy a receiver / integrated with what you need. Or consider selling it all and buying what suits you and your listening requirements. if your not an audiophile you could get a nice system and have cash left over for what you need. |
atmasphere, I appreciate the advice. I love music, rock, blues, some classical, various genres from the southern US. And I've had some exposure to high end systems. In the 1970s my uncle's McIntosh system with Klipsch speakers. During college with my roommates NAD, B&O and Nakamichi system with Dahlquist speakers. So the tendencies are there. Probably my biggest issues are time and location. There is no room for a system of this sort in my home. And I just don't have enough time for good relaxed dedicated listening. The system is currently in my small (1000 sqft) log cabin about an hour from home. Fortunately that is where I usually do have time to relax. Unfortunately my wife does not really care to sit and listen to music like I do. So when I do, it is usually at low enough volume to allow conversation. glennewdick, after pricing all this stuff it is a great temptation to sell all of it. But this is a weird situation. This came from my wife's wealthy cousin who moved out of his house into a penthouse apartment. He had an estate sale and basically got rid of everything. He invited cousins to come get whatever they wanted. My wife's sister and her husband grabbed this system having no idea what it was. It has been sitting in their basement for two years. They live down the road from my cabin and when my crappy system started to fail they told me to take this system and use it if I wanted to. So technically it isn't mine and if we did decide to sell it I think the cousin who owned it first should get the money....family! |
@n80 Atmasphere is on the mark when he tells you to let the system play for a while before making judgments about the bass. I can tell you that the surrounds on those woofers will need some time to loosen up if they've been sitting idle for a while. The rest of the components will benefit from the playing time too but, with speakers, the difference can be dramatic. |
Thanks djohnson54, I do think that was what was happening. On another forum, not really an audio forum, I was told that I could not run a combo tuner/receiver/amp through the LS16 preamp. But, the LS16 (I've determined that mine is the MKII) has a set of RCA inputs marked "Processor". That is what I ran the Onkyo home theater unit through. Is there any reason I can't use the Sony tuner/receiver plugged into the "Processor" inputs to get radio and phono (until I purchase a dedicated phono preamp)? In other words, I know it sounds okay to my untrained ear, but will it hurt anything running a 100 watt receiver into the LS16 preamp? Sorry about all the stupid questions but this high end stuff can get overwhelming. |
N80, It sounds like most of the issue you are having with the system is that you are used to a certain sound and it is taking time for you to adjust to this new, arguably better system. It seems you have it at least tentatively set up properly. The components you have received, are all great quality and the speakers should have plenty of bass. Here are my additional suggestions: 1) It appears your pre-amp has a tape loop. For $149, you can buy a Schiit Loki, which is an eq that runs in the tape loop. http://www.schiit.com/products/loki I caution you however, to limit how much bass boost you add, as you can end up overdriving the speakers or clipping the amp. If you are listening at low levels, the ear is less sensitive to bass and many will use something like this to restore the perceived loss of bass at lower levels. The term for this change is called the Fletcher-Munson curve if you wish to read about it. You could also always add a subwoofer later if you want (Rythmik is my suggestion). 2) Please take that Onkyo receiver out the loop. It is not helping anything and adding to your issues. For the turntable, you can get a phono preamp that will work better than the one built into the Onkyo for $50. Try the Art Pro Audio DJPREII or RollsVP29. 3) Radio Tuner- Nobody want's them anymore. I just gave away a great Proton Tuner. You can find them on craigslist for a song. 4) Bluetooth/Music Streaming- You will likely notice that Bluetooth from your phone doesn't sound great. If you have internet at your Cabin, take a look at a Google Chromecast audio for $25.00. It will let you stream from your phone and most music streaming services. If at some point in the future, you want better sound from it, add an outboard DAC. You can get perfectly decent ones from $100 (Schiit Mani is my suggestion for that price) up to ones that cost more than a car. 5) Cables to hook it up- For your needs, don't go spending a lot. There is a company on Amazon named "Worlds Best Cables" that sells some great value cables for about $20-30 a pair. Otherwise, Amazon Basics or Monoprice RCA cables will get the job done for even less money. 6) As others have said, have fun with it. You have been given something great. For less than $350 you can configure it to work how you want it to. |
" On another forum, not really an audio forum, I was told that I could not run a combo tuner/receiver/amp through the LS16 preamp. But, the LS16 (I’ve determined that mine is the MKII) has a set of RCA inputs marked "Processor". That is what I ran the Onkyo home theater unit through. Is there any reason I can’t use the Sony tuner/receiver plugged into the "Processor" inputs to get radio and phono (until I purchase a dedicated phono preamp)? In other words, I know it sounds okay to my untrained ear, but will it hurt anything running a 100 watt receiver into the LS16 preamp?" This should work ok, subject to a couple of items: 1) Does the receiver have a pre-out? It will say pre-out or preamp out and have RCA’s. If yes, you can use the processor inputs, and the receiver will act as the phono preamp and tuner, with it controlling the volume. 2) If the receiver DOES NOT have pre-outs, you will have pull the signal from a tape out and route it to a regular input on the ARC. If this is case, DO NOT use the processor loop on the ARC, as the processor loop removes the volume control from the circuit and will result in full volume going to the speakers with no control from the receiver or the pre-amp. In this case, using the tape out from the receiver, the ARC would be the volume control. Keep in mind, when you run a signal from the RCA’s, you are not coming off the amplifier in the receiver, so the power output of the receiver becomes irrelevant. |
You have a very nice system there. It will sound awsome when the bugs are worked out. Here is my advice. 1st Forget the Onkyo receiver. There is a reason high end Audio gear does not have tone controls. You will not need them. Promise. Your amp and pre FAR exceed that unit in quality. 2nd Get the tubes checked out. 3rd buy a used tuner. Under $50 4th google images Arial Acoustic speakers. You will probably see them there then you will know the model. 5th get a DAC under $300.00 for your purposes should do it. Ask advice on this here. You can then play high quality FLAC files and run all you music off a cheap laptop. Upgrade the DAC if you get the bug it is worth it. You amp was/is a devision of Mark Levinson and will not need recapping. Your speakers, I doubt need recapping. Most likely all poly caps or a form of. The AR is very good but it could need tubes. If you explore vinyl, under $500.00 including cartridge will get you a very nice TT. Ask for advice. Most CD players sound the same unless you are spending pretty good money on them so why bother. Rip your Cd's to your computer in Flac and enjoy. You have a system to be proud of there. Get it working right and you will thoroughly enjoy it. You dont have to spend a fortune to get great sound. PK |
Thanks guys. I think I'm finally getting my head around all this and it is starting to make sense. I'll spend this weekend working on all of your recommendations and listening. I sent a picture of the speakers to Aerial Acoustics. The owner/designer (Michael Kelly I think) replied and said they were 7Bs. |
mecreyn wrote: "2) If the receiver DOES NOT have pre-outs, you will have pull the signal from a tape out and route it to a regular input on the ARC. If this is case, DO NOT use the processor loop on the ARC, as the processor loop removes the volume control from the circuit and will result in full volume going to the speakers with no control from the receiver or the pre-amp. In this case, using the tape out from the receiver, the ARC would be the volume control. " Okay, that makes some sense now. When I had the Onkyo home theater unit running through the preamp processor loop the volume control on the preamp does not work and the 'volume' read-out on the Onkyo showed the volume in negative dB. Max volume (I never went there) would have been '0'. Again, thanks to everyone. I can't wait to get back down there to listen to this system again. Also, no internet at the cabin. Barely get a cell signal so no streaming services available. |
3) Radio Tuner- Nobody want's them anymore. I just gave away a great Proton Tuner. You can find them on craigslist for a song.I better get looking. I still play the radio on my system! Right now I running a modified Dynaco. I agree getting the Onkyo out of the system will help its overall sound. I also think there is no reason at this point to suspect filter capacitors in the power supplies of either the amp or preamp. You can run the tape outputs of any receiver into the ARC Auxiliary inputs no worries. There is this thing that is well-known in the high end audio world called 'WAF': Wife Acceptance Factor. If you have a room at your regular home that is yours, that would be the typical place a system like this might reside if the WAF does not allow it in the living room. This is a pretty common phenomena. The thing is, the better you get the system to sound, the more likely your wife might want to hear it. Women often have less damaged hearing than men, so they can often hear high frequency artifacts (harshness and brightness) that are known irritants! This is a bit less true in the last 20 years or so as women have been making their way into noisier work environments. But as a general rule if your wife does not want the stereo playing, its a sign that either she really doesn't like your musical tastes (or lack thereof) or she is hearing problems in the system that you don't. If its the latter, I would not play the system for her until its had time to wake up, which might take a good 200 hours of playing time. When you are at the cabin I would have the system on the whole time, even if not playing anything as this will help. If the former, you're screwed and you will have to limit your playing time to when she is not around. Good Luck! |
My wife likes about half of the music I like. I have a much broader range of tastes. When we're at the cabin I have music on around the clock. She will tolerate just about anything I play but she just prefers the volume to be at what I call conversational level....where you can still talk at normal level and be heard over the music. She doesn't mind higher volumes if she is actively doing something else in the room. Her hearing is better than mine. I have some loss from rock concerts, shooting and operating loud equipment when I was younger and stupider. For 'real' dedicated listening I like the volume a good bit higher but I'm not a volume junky in the that regard. As for WAF, my wife gets a pass here because she has accepted a whole lot of my other more intrusive hobbies. I can't complain. So I'll have to pick and choose my dedicated listening time. The thing that really kills me is that my daughter and her husband will be moving into _my_ cabin in two weeks for six months while their new home is being built. This is going to limit good listening time to just about zero. I have racked my brain about where to put the system in my house. There just isn't any place where it will fit within the space and the decor (WAF). |
As for WAF, my wife gets a pass here because she has accepted a whole lot of my other more intrusive hobbies. I can’t complain. So I’ll have to pick and choose my dedicated listening time. You sir are a smart man. While it seems strange, if you have a garage, you could use that as a listening room. Just put the speakers back against the wall and pull them out when you listen. You can grab a chair from the kitchen. A cheap large throw rug or old large piece of carpet can be used on the floor to help treat any floor reflections. If nothing else, you will have the coolest garage system in the world when you are working in it. |
I'm afraid I may getting the audio bug. Just after I typed my last response I noticed that the love seat in our TV room at home is pretty ratty looking and if I threw it out there would be room for the system in there. It probably isn't ideal. It is 10' wide and 20' long. One of the walls is exposed brick. The ceiling is 10'. The system would have to go on the narrow wall and the 'listening chair' would be all the way at the other end, nearly 20' away. But, I'm seriously thinking about doing this at least until my daughter moves out of the cabin. I will run it by my wife this evening. |
Just try and get the sofa out from the rear wall a couple of feet. If you put the speakers close to the sidewalls, a couple of absorption panels will work wonders for the first reflection points. GIK Acoustics sells them for a resonable price, has information about how to treat and will make recommendations if you send them info about your room and setup. |
Thanks mcreyn. My wife has given me the nod so I'll bring the system home in a couple of weeks. Just want to say thanks to everyone for all the help. I spend time on a number of technical type websites. Some of them are not so friendly especially when you're a noob asking stupid questions. It is refreshing to get good, friendly, non-condescending advice on a technical website and I appreciate it. |
Just want to say thanks to everyone for all the help. I spend time on a number of technical type websites. Some of them are not so friendly especially when you're a noob asking stupid questions. It is refreshing to get good, friendly, non-condescending advice on a technical website and I appreciate it. Your questions aren't stupid. We all start somewhere. I think the members on this forum are likely a bit older than some of the other forums. In my experience, as we get older, most of us get more patient as well as learn that 1) there is more than one correct answer, 2) our opinion is exactly that, and 3) there is plenty of room in this world for other views. I have found AVSforum to be pretty good also, but they are much more oriented towards home theater and are pretty strongly in the objectiveness camp. That said, I have watched them get on experience forum members for not being polite to new members or acting arrogant towards them. |
Many subs take their input off of the speaker terminals of the amplifier driving the main speakers. You then adjust the sub's controls for a proper blend. Your room at home sounds like it could work well. You may get some brightness off of the brick- have to try it and see. If so, carpet on the floor, a couch, curtains- things like that can help. Have fun! |
Thank you. But remember I’m new to all this. The Proceed amp has posts for spade terminals, a + /-, on left and right. The subwoofer, I’m assuming, would have a single +/- input. So what you’re saying is that I’d run a speaker cable from the left or right speaker output posts on the amp (over the speaker’s spade terminals) to the subwoofer. So which speaker output on the amp (left or right) would I use.....or does it matter? EDIT: Never mind. I see that many subwoofers have left and right speaker inputs and a single left/right RCA for low level input from preamp. So I'm assuming you'd just piggy back over the speaker wires at the amp and run them to the subwoofer. I guess I'll have to make sure the subwoofer can handle the 250 watts from the Proceed amp. Still hoping not to need a subwoofer. |
Just took a look online at the manual for the LS16. It has multiple outputs, both RCA and balanced. You mentioned that you're using balanced cables from the LS16 to your amp, so if you decide to get a subwoofer connect it with RCA cables from the RCA outputs labeled "Main 1". Don't use the "Record" output, as that passes through the signal without volume control. It appears, though, that your main issue with the ARC preamp is the apparent lack of bass. From your descriptions of your prior systems, I'm wondering if it might be an issue of what you're used to. Many lower end systems for the mass market have over-emphasized bass as that's what a lot of people want. In contrast, most higher end systems strive for a flat response without emphasizing any frequency ranges. There's certainly nothing wrong with that - we like what we like and there's no "right" way to play back music. But that preamp is a very good piece of equipment and assuming the tubes and electronics are in good working order it should be able to give you much better sound quality than the Onkyo. |
"You mentioned that you’re using balanced cables from the LS16 to your amp, so if you decide to get a subwoofer connect it with RCA cables from the RCA outputs labeled "Main 1"." That makes sense. Thank you. "It appears, though, that your main issue with the ARC preamp is the apparent lack of bass. From your descriptions of your prior systems, I’m wondering if it might be an issue of what you’re used to. " I think that is very possible. My cheap-o home theater system is bass heavy too and not in a good way. Same thing in my truck, which has a nice OEM system in it but it is also bass heavy. I think I’ve just grown used to it. Also, my first impression of the system came with me standing a few feet in front of the speakers with them just a few feet apart. So I’m hoping that’s all it was. I also noticed that in reviews and descriptions of the Aerial Acoustics 7B that the woofers are described as "long throw" or something like that which makes me wonder if they will seem to have more base if I can get a little more distance between them and the listening position. I’ll be going down this weekend and can’t wait to take a fresh listen to the system and try to approach it without bias from my previous low end systems which I’m avoiding this week. Once again I really appreciate all the fine, common sense advice I’ve gotten here. |
EDIT: Never mind. I see that many subwoofers have left and right speaker inputs and a single left/right RCA for low level input from preamp. So I'm assuming you'd just piggy back over the speaker wires at the amp and run them to the subwoofer.Most subs have an attenuator circuit at their input to deal with this. "It appears, though, that your main issue with the ARC preamp is the apparent lack of bass. From your descriptions of your prior systems, I’m wondering if it might be an issue of what you’re used to. "Just my personal 2 cents, but IME ARC preamps sound a bit dry or conservative in the bass. Add to that the preamp has been sitting a while and its easy to imagine it being a bit deficient. Defiantly let it play a while before doing anything about it! |
I should probably ask this question somewhere else but when I click on "Start a new discussion" I get this: "You are currently not allowed to do that." Not sure if I've done something wrong or exceeded my limit. Anyway I have found an ACOUSTIC RESEARCH TELEDYNE SYNTHESIZED TUNER T-06, new in the box for under $150. Is this worthwhile? I can find any number of tuners for $50 but this one looks like a deal but I have no real idea what it is. |
That new old stock (NOS) Acoustic Research Teledyne Synthesized Tuner T-06 on eBay for $130 shipped may not be such a good deal. The important thing to clarify is that the mid-fi mass-market company called "Acoustic Research" is/was completely unrelated to the hi-fi company Audio Research (maker of your excellent LS-16 Mk II preamp), and the name similarity has often confused newcomers to high-end audio. If you have some time to explore, a wonderful and reliable source of information and reviews can be found at http://www.fmtunerinfo.com, which can help guide your choices when shopping for a higher-end tuner. Some (but not all) older "analog" tuners outperform synthesized tuners like the Acoustic Research. The only downside to adding a good FM tuner to your high-end system is that, for best results, you'll want to have a good antenna (ideally on your roof) to receive the best sound quality from your local stations, depending on where you live. Your honesty and enthusiasm for getting the most out of the fine system you inherited is refreshing! Best wishes, Mark Hubbard Eureka, CA |
Thank you Mark. Looking at the Acoustic Research web site I started to wonder if I was equating them with Audio Research. Now I know. I will avoid it. I am now looking at an Audio Dynamics T-200 from the same place, also NOS. I’ve read some decent reviews on it. I’m also looking at an old AccuPhase T-101 on eBay. It looks like these usually go for around $300. Currently no one has bid on it and there is no reserve. Reviews for these were good in their day. I’ll keep an eye on it. Again, I’m not that concerned with the quality of the radio we listen to since that is mostly just background listening rather than serious listening. On the other hand it would be nice to have something that somewhat matches up with the system. Going down to the cabin today to mess with it all and will bring it home where I can start to make a more serious assessment. |
Here is an update: I brought the system to my house and threw out an old love seat to make room for it. The room is 10'x20'. The system is on a short wall at one end and my listening chair is on the short wall at the other end, in other words I'm listening at about 17 feet from the speakers which are about 8' apart and slightly toed in. What a difference this makes. More than enough bass now. No subwoofer will be needed. Also, the soundstage (as I understand that term) is much improved. At the cabin it was okay but there was a very tiny sweet spot and because the hearing in my left ear is worse than the right I had to face the system at an angle to the left or the soundstage was very 2D. Now, in this room at home where I am a good 6 feet further away the soundstage is very discernible and the sweet spot does not seem to be so tiny. The bass is now full and rich and there is a thump to it. The speakers are about a foot out from the back wall and closer to the side walls than at the cabin. As mentioned, maybe the corners help. I can hardly believe the difference. Thanks again for all the advice. Also, I'll probably skip buying a tuner since I do not listen to the radio much at home. All I need now is a phono preamp. I probably am not going to spend much on that as the TT is nothing special and I don't see myself getting much into vinyl.......but the new copy of Astral Weeks I bought on Friday sure does sound good (I used the Onkyo home theater pre-out as a phono preamp but left the Onkyo at the cabin.) |
I have to admit I just bought a junk phono-preamp. The TT is also fair at best. I'll play around with my records a little bit and see if I want to go that direction. Anyway, another question, I have found a subwoofer that was with another system this same cousin had. It looks like the system was Rotel components with Bowers and Wilkins speakers. This subwoofer is a B&W ASW 600. It is powered at 150w. The question is should I even bother? It is free but I'm not sure I need it at this point. Maybe it would be nice for lower volume listening? |
Update: Against advice I bought a cheap-o phono pre-amp so I could run my turntable which is old and nothing great with thin and built-in RCA cables. I figured the cheap pre-amp would about match the TT. It did not. It was pathetic. Low volume compared to CD, etc. Thin bass. Running the same TT through my old 1980 receiver/tuner and bookshelf speakers sounded better than running it through my high end system with this cheap pre-amp. Running the TT through the Onkyo home theater system and then into my high end system sounded much better than this pre-amp. I sent it back. I'll order one of the one's recommended in this thread. Still not high end by any means but certainly in line with the TT I hope. In truth, it sounds pretty good running it through the Onkyo but I'm not interested in having the bulk and complexity of the Onkyo in my system. |
