Preamp Deal of the Century

Hello Kevin. Yes, Arc equipment is extremely well built and the product support is top notch, I repair or update all of my own equipment and have consulted with Leonard,the chief service manager at ARC on more than one occassion. He is a true gentleman and always very helpful and accomodating with respect to recommendations or technical advice. I am certain Mick at supratek would be as well. I have both the syrah and the cortese preamps and have never experienced a problem with mine.The build quality is top shelf. I acquired the cortese from a guy who was a 2nd owner. There were a few issues with the cortese as someone had retubed it with a bunch of tired old nos tubes. It was just dreadful sounding when it arrived and I am certain the poor guy surely must of wondered what all the fuss was about after listening to it as it wasn't remotely close to sounding like music! The mullard gz37 rectifier was pretty much toast and tested a little over 80% on one half of the wave and 90% on the other. The 6j5's [single triode]line gain tubes were so far from matched and barely made it past acceptable level on my tube tester as both tested under 80% emmision. The supratek or any other high resolution preamp with high gain is going to be very sensitive to tubes and I just don't understand why anyone would experiment with tired tubes. The suprateks can be voiced in different flavours depending on the gain stage tube of choice. For a well balanced warmer tone, one could choose the kenrad or perhaps the rca grey glass 6sn7.The tungsol round is a little more neutral, still warm and liquid sounding with a tighter bass reponse. The better nos sylvania's are somewhat more transparent with a leaner bass range than most of the other nos tubes. What I am fumbling around trying to say here is: The suprateks are very versatile regarding voicing and synergy with other components. And much like a fine musical instrument... they need to be fine tuned to your room, your ear and your associate gear. I still admire the phono section of my Sp-10 mk 2... the supratek is in a whole higher league. Furethermore... the supratek has the higher resale value ratio at this particular juncture.I can fully understand and appreciate if ones decision is to stay with the older and established firms in the industry because of reliabilty or service concerns. I have no such concerns with supratek as it is hand built to the highest standards,a simple straight forward topology with point to point wiring,top shelf passive parts and an architecture that is a work of art. PS: Regarding the old established firms? I much preferr the sound of the conrad johnson ART over the ARC reference. My 2 cents worth.

Ella4ever, I have owned my Supratek Syrah for over 2 years and I have never had any kind of problem with it. It worked perfectly from the time I unpacked it and still works perfectly today. Mick builds these things like tanks! He states on his website that they are built to still be operating long after we are gone, and I believe him. If I were you, I would not hesitate buying a Supratek, but I am a happy owner so what else would I say? I have owned Audio Research equipment and it is good, but I did not find it to be as musically satisfying as my Supratek.

Hi Ecclectique ( David?), Thank you for replying to my post concerning Cabernet vs ARC. I had previously e-mailed Mondie on another forum about his experience with his Supratek. His enthusiasm hasn't changed a bit ( thanks for replying again , Mondie).The staid conservative in me says the safe option is ARC ; the other half says I could be missing out on something quite special. I am looking for a touch more warmth in my listening- I don't doubt the Ref2 is a great pre but maybe emphasises detail more than I want?I'm in New Zealand; as far as I know there is only one Supratek here (may be wrong); fortunately the owner is happy for me to go and have a listen which I will do very soon.
Can any long term Supratek owners attest as to the reliability of their pres? I've had problems with gear before requiring dealer and manufacture support. I know that ARC is very good in this respect-does Mick's gear give any problems?
Thanks again Eccletique and Mondie for your time in replying.
Cheers,
Kevin

David,

Happy New Year to you and your gang.
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I was suggesting the break-in of 300 hours so that when Pablo rolls tubes, he makes moves based on a broken in pre-amp and all of the tubes are somewhat stable in their sonics.
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I just think it is a valuable learning experience to have a clear understanding what each new tube does when added to the system and not confuse its value with the changes occurring from the circuitry of the pre or the other new tubes as they break in.
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I do agree that the changes you recommend are a no brainer, but there might be some valuable lessons to learn along the way by going a bit slower. Either way, he can't go wrong.
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Rgds, Larry
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Kevin,

l recently upgraded from an SP-9mk2 to a Supratek Cabernet. While the SP-9 is probably not in the class as your pre, the improvement was immense. To use a local analogy, l traded in my Ford Falcon for a BMW M5. Everything the others have said is true, the Cab is a revelation. l doubt you could go wrong.

Have a great new year everyone.

Cheers Simon

Hi Larry. Hope you and your family had a very Merry Christmas and all the best in the New Year! I didn't mean to suggest to Pablo to wait 300 hours before tube rolling... The new supratek or any other new tubed amplifier/preamplifier[for that matter] will become more focused and coherent with around 300 hours of run in time due to the transformers and the passive parts in the circuitry. Capacitors in particular are notoriously slow to form themselves to modulated frequencies. They take many hours to open up,particularly the top end. I would recommend we swap out the rectifier and regulators immediately [like right out of the box] as I have always consider that a no brainer.

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Pablo,
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Congratulations on your Chenin, a nicely designed system and your obvious joy.
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Do wait for 300+ hours suggested by Ecclectique to pass by before starting your tube rolling. Roll only one set of tuebs at a time and live with them for a while before starting on the next set or position. Do invest in some of David's suggestions as well as some great NOS tubes.
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You might want to give some BMI power cords a test drive (specifically the Sharks, Whale Supremes of Orca Generation 2's). I would be happy to loan you a Shark to audition (for loan only, don't want to sell it). Email me offline if you have an interest.
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Happy New Year - enjoy your bliss....
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Rgds, Larry

Pablo,

Glad to hear from another very satisfied Supratek owner! Indeed, the preamp is special. I have no regrets from the money and time spent waiting to own this superb piece of equipment.

As for the 6F6G's, there are several sources. I bought NOS Sylvanias from DIYcable.com. During my shopping, I found the ff. stores that carry them:

http://www.audiotubes.com/bjtubes.htm

http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/new2.html

The "brands" they carry are not listed on the site. You have to e-mail them to ask for availability of the brand you like.
I highly recommend the NOS Sylvania 6F6G Round plates dark glass (Blk. and Green carton). I sold my Gold Lion KT-66 and GEC Clear Glass KT-66 who used to be my favorite regulators after hearing the Sylvania 6F6G's.

Good Luck and Happy New Year to All!!!

Hey Pablo. A very nice post sir and I am happy you are enjoying the supratek. I am sure the chenin hasn't even come into it's own yet, as you will need at least a good 300 hours run in time to settle in. It just get's better with age! Your system is very well thought out and it's also great to see another vinyl rig. Tom[twl] is very well versed in the vinyl medium as well as the his many years of experience in the audio industry and IMO nothing beats hands on experience. A highly qualified mentor indeed. Re: 6f6g's. I service and repair old Juke boxes and early radios and generally have a supply of 6f6g's, however...I have exhausted my supply for many of the supratek gang here on this thread. I have contacted a few other of my techie freinds in a search for matched pairs and it's getting to be slim pickings out there. I am sure more will come my way as most of the techies don't give a damn what 6f6 they use. When they find them, I trade them 2 to 1 for new 6f6gt metals. PS: the 6f6gt metals are horrendous in the supratek. The coke bottle g versions with the round plates are what were after here however some of the smaller straight glass gt versions are really very good as well. Their are many 6f6gt versions.... some with flat plates and some with the same rounded plate construction of the coke bottle 6f6g. The rounded plate versions are the only applicable tube choice for regulation duty.

Hello K.D.occonor. I cannot help much on a direct comparison of the supratek to the ARC ref 2 as I have never heard the ref 2 in my own rig. I have owned and very much enjoyed many ARC products over the years. From the original sp-3a preamp, sp-6a to B, sp-8 mk2, sp-10 mk2 [still own] and a brief stint with the sp-11. For me anyway..... the last great preamp from ARC ended with the sp-10. I should qualify things here: I voice all my preamps with vinyl as my main source, as 90% of my listening is through the phono stage. ARC seemed to move into the high resolution, wide bandwidth camp with the introduction of the sp-11 series.I never really cottoned to that sound. For me it was far too clinical or bleached out and robbed the emotion and tonal integrity of the sp-10. I have heard the arc ref 2 on a few occasions in other systems and to my ear... I would still classify it in that same camp, albeit far more refined and articulate than the sp-11. Comparing the line stage of the older sp-10 to the supratek? NO Contest sir. The sp-10 is full bodied with a large and deep soundstage, a somewhat rounded bloomy bottom end and makes for a credible facsimilee of the illusion. However.... the supratek's line stage makes music sound more alive with emotion, it's abilty to retrieve that fine nuance and low level micro imformation thats masked or buried in lesser preamps. Added to it's uncanny dynamic range and bass weight adds up to getting you closer to the sound of a live event. It's clarity and coherency is unmatched in my experience.No contest here! You may want to post here where you reside and perhaps someone close will give you a listen. Even better if you could get a reference 2 for comparative purposes. All the best in your endevour sir.

It took me only five minutes to follow the advice of TWL on buying a Chenin, but more than a month to read this wonderful thread! Thank you very much Slowhand, Ecclectique, Amandarae, Bwhite, Jpms, Cello, Streven1960, Jazzdude, Tubegroover, Asa, Fiddler, and the rest of the Supratek gang for all the information about this wonderful preamplifier. After a month in my system, I concur that this is a very special piece of equipment. Following TWL’s advice I’ve assembled in the last couple of years a SET/Lowther based rig and I listen mostly to jazz music. I am using right now a Linn Sondek/Ekos/Goldring Elite and Electrocompaniet EMC 1 UP front end, a Supratek Chenin pre, Wright Sound 3.5, Bottlehead Parabee 300b and Electrocompaniet AW 220 amplifiers (a long story behind this combination ), and Lowther EX 4 in a Voigt Pipe enclosure and Silverline Sonatas as speakers (the second installment of the previous long story ). A REL Stadium II is the subwoofer. Cables are all Electraglides (Silver Reference and Speakerglides). The best sound I’ve ever had in my life! The Chenin replaced an aging Audible Illusions 3A and the difference is notorius. I’ve already replaced the stock 6SN7 with a pair of Ken Rad Black Glass 6SN7, the rectifier with an RCA 5V4, the stock 5881 with a pair of Tung Sol 5881 and the 6922 with a pair of Amperex 6922 White label. After finishing reading the entire thread last night, I will buy the already famous Sylvanias 6F6G and either the Mullard GZ34 or the Philips Miniwatts. Any idea where to look at for those two tubes? Thank you very much one more time, and happy new year. Pablo.

Hi all,I posted this question separately on this forum but was advised to post it on this thread.I am looking to upgrade my ARC LS 15 preamp and have narrowed the field to either an ARC ref2 ( I know there is a ref 3 on the way) or a Supratek Cabernet ( I stated Chardonnay on the separate posting).Did anyone compare the two? ( I realise that any replies will probably be from very happy Supratek owners). Partnering gear-ARC CD3 CDP ,Plinius SA 100 ( soon to be SA Ref) , Shahinians ,Wireworld gold eclipse balanced interconnect , Kimber speaker cable; music taste classical and jazz .
From every thing I've read on this thread the Supratek is something special but any thoughts on the comparison would be gratefully received.Thanks in advance.
Kevin

Hi Kenji

When I first received my preamp, the same problem happened with me... I systematically tried all combination (almost I think). Finally, I turned off the power and took out all the tubes, reinserted them and turned on the power. After a few moves and when I toggled a top gain switch to High, there was a loud POP and faint sound was heard. Next I toggled the other top gain switch to High. Luckily, my speakers were not damaged (I think). For my setup, I had to switch off the power amp everytime the top gain switch is toggered, either way. Both gain TOP switches had to be set to High and back gain switch set to middle before I hear anything decent. You may try that.

Good luck, Edmund

Problem solved! Checked all the tubes again and found the 6SN7's were dead cold - unplugged umblical cord and reconnected it, still dead cold but the rest of the tubes were okay. Unplugged umblical cord and reverse it, the side connected to preamp initially now connected to the power supply unit and vice versa. Bingo! Everything lights up and the Cab started to sing (including myself ^_^). Anyway, still have two minor issues that I need to solve them with Mick when he is back to work.

Cheers,
Kenji

Help! No sound is coming out from my new Cabernet. I called Mick and followed his instruction, all toggle switches (HT & Mute switches) were switched towards front, RCA/XLR output toggle switch to RCA (since I'm using only RCA ICs), input position to #2 (#1 is XLR input, in fact I had tried all positions), but still no sound coming out! Mick is still on holiday and it's difficult to get hold of him. Interconnects were checked thoroughly and all tubes were lit up but the Cab did want to sing. I would send the unit back to Mick if it sill doesn't work.

Kenji

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Happy Holiday Season to all of you in the Supratek family.
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Great Pre-amp, Great thread and Great group of goners.
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Thanks to Tom for getting this all started and to the rest of you for keeping it going.
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Warmest Regards,
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Larry
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Great news Kenji,

Santa has been good to you this Christmas! Enjoy the Cabernet and let us know your impressions if you can pull yourself away from it.

My Cabernet is on its way! My Cabernet is on its way!
It'll arrive just before X'mas (crossing my fingers now). I hope FedEx will do a good job and pleeeease don't screw up my X'mas!

Merry X'mas and Happy New Year,
Kenji

Has anyone ever tried the Mullard CV1186 (6F6G) as the regulator tube on Syrah or Chenin? How is it compared with the Sylvania? Thanks!

A big thanks to all of you guys for making this thread so interesting. Please keep us informed on the Merlots Mondie. I would love to hear how they sound. What kind of speakers will you be using with them?

Thanks Tom for starting this thread, and merry Xmas to all.

l hope to get a litle present of my own in the new year, the loan of a pair of Merlots from Mick. Hope they are as good as my Cab, may be not need for another upgrade, ever !!!

Cheers

Sí, Feliz Navidad para todos desde España.
Or in other words: Merry Christmas to all of you from Spain.
Special thanks to you Tom for starting this great gathering.
Gracias!

Merry Christmas and all the best in 2005 to you too.
I have just added my first serious speaker cable, and Supratek sounds even better:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1103640692&read&3&4&

Hi Gang. Amen Tom.... best of the season to all. Cheers!

Hi Slipknot1,

Glad to hear that you enjoy your Chenin so much. I have had my Syrah over 2 years and let me tell you, I still feel the same way that you feel after 2 months! You hit the nail on the head. The secret to truly enjoying this hobby is to be able to get absorbed in the music and not in the gear. This is why the Suprateks are loved by so many people.

Same here! Same here!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all!

May you spend your holidays with your love ones!

Right back at ya Tom. Thanks for starting this thread, and thanks for bringing this incredible product to everyone's attention. I have had my Chenin for about a month now, and every day I am amazed and transported by the music. I no longer listen to the gear. Bonus: it has to be one of the most beautiful pieces I have ever seen as well.

Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday's to all of you Supratek owners and to everyone who participates and enjoys this thread. Have a wonderful New Year!

Tom

Today I´ve tried the iPod as a source connected to the Syrah and the amazing CAD 805C. The iPod is a surprising good litle machine, big sound, smooth, good bass...Really something special.

Hi Ethifi. They would be very good sounding tubes if they were not so tired. It is imperative that a full wave rectifier tests strong, a minimum 90% emission with matching sections[preferrably higher than 95%]. The tung sol 6L6's are surely just tired old pulls from a guitar amp. Don't even consider these in your chardonnay . ET....call home! [email me directly].

Hi, as this is my first venture into tubes, I need your help again. I'm planning on ordering some NOS tubes from a guy for my new Chardonnay.
(1) New Mullard GZ34 NOS, NIB, Double Halo Getter, black, small base.
Factory Date Codes of f32 B2I
Balanced to within 1.4%.
Tested (62,61) on a TV7 tester where 40 is the minimum.
(2) Used Tungsol 6L6WGB brown base, made for GE.
Measured 80% of new tubes.

Are these any good?

Has anyone ordered a DAC from Mick? When's the first shipment due?

Well, I just recieved 2 more pair of Phillips miniwatt GZ34's. One pair is the metal base labeled Adzam (looks and sounds just like my other Phillips miniwatt(which is labeled Phillips Miniwatt). The other pair is the Phillips miniwatt GZ34 with black base (smooth plates, double getter). This should set me up for reciters for life. I only got to listen to the new tubes long enough to make sure they worked (they are a Christmas gift), but the black base tube sounds very good for less money than the metal base.

I can't belive this thread has gotten so big that Audiogon has had to seperate it into pages. WOW! Anyone out there expecting their preamps before Christmas? Mick told me that he has the new DAC on the back burner until after the first of the year, as he is trying to get as many preamps done before Christmas a he can.

Excellent news guys. Looks like Audiogon has made pages available on threads now! Now very long ones like this can actually be read by people on slow connections/machines. And we'll all see a noticeable performance improvement too! Kudos!

I was wondering if anyone has tried the cryo'd SED tubes from tube depot. Specifically the 6l6gc in the regulator position. For some strange reason I just found that site tonight.

Larry,

And any others who have the 6c45pi phono tube. He has Sovtek 6c45pi's. 19.95 each.

Ecclectique, I am not familiar with the Cardas caps, but the Chris VH - V Caps that I mentioned have gotten rave reviews. Those are the Teflons I was referring to in my post.

At Mick's direction, I did replace two caps in my Chardonnay with Auricaps and I noticed a modest improvement.

When I try the V-Caps, I will post my impressions.

If you don't have a tape loop, Mick usually installs a HT bypass. The HT bypass switch should be in the off position. It is the switch in the back between the two chrome "towers", off is with the switch toward the front of the unit.

Is there a tape monitor switch? If so, try setting it in the other direction.

Hi Ethifi.The toggle switch on the top is probably set in tape out mode. Try engaging it to the other setting . Fiddler... I have not worked with any of the Cardas caps as of yet. Was contemplating doing the coupling caps in my Vac monos with them. If you do try this mod,please inform us as I would be most interested. The only Teflon caps I have worked with are the nos russian caps [as bypass caps]... they are suberb and very transparent.

Sorry... problem fixed. Unplugged everything and tried again. The Mute toggle switch in the picture confused me! Back to enjoying my new found love!

Just received my Chardonnay (beautiful!), set it up as per instruction manual but there is *** NO SOUND *** coming from the speakers. Stock tubes are lit. I unplugged the IC from my current preamp and hooked up only 1 input (SACD player) via Input 1 and have tried output via both Output 1 and 2 on different tries, but still no different. Anyone knows why? Thanks.

Just curious if anyone else ever tried replacing the stock pot with the DACT.

When I put the DACT in, I also rewired the input straight from the CD RCA directly to the DACT, by-passing the selector switch. (I only use one source)

I still can't believe the difference in transparency.

I have been considering trying some V Caps in my pre. Anyone had experience with them yet?

Ethifi,

I heard the Ref 3 in a dealers showroom hooked to my Berning ZH270 tube amp. The speakers were not fully broken in, but they did sound very good. I already own the Gallo Ref 2's so I was not totally blown away (because I am used the the excellent sound of Gallo speakers). You will need to experiment with placing the woofers to the outside and the inside to determine which is better in your situation. I love my Gallo Ref 2's with my Berning amp and Supratek Syrah pre. This combo makes for a very fast and a very musical system. I have considered getting a pair of the Ref 3's, but I love the looks of my Ref 2's, so I am not sure if I will change speakers.

Another speaker that I am considering is the Gallo Nucleus Reference III. I will audition it this Saturday at the local distributor's demo place. I like the price too. Read that it can be used in small rooms. Anyone tried this speaker in small rooms matched with tube amps?

I haven't posted to this thread since recieving my Chenin, because, quite frankly.... I'm speechless!!

Everything folks have been saying is true in the extreme.

I'm not even going to THINK about tube rolling for at least 200 hours on it however.

My mistake guys, Mick did not say the DAC he is working on is a tube design. He did tell me it should sell for around $500. Sounds pretty exciting.

I have not heard any of the Cary's except for a 2A3i (integrated) which I own and it has actually driven my Merlins pretty nicely. The 805 has a great rep.

Ethifi. Yes, they are the speakers although I think his asking price is a little steap.Of the single ended amps you mentioned. The cary 805 wins hands down.

Hi Swampwalker and Ecclectique,
Thank you for your valuable comments. I would certainly be on the look out for your recommendations. I live in Asia and it would be easier to audition the Proac. I have listened to these speakers and like them too.
Re Cary amp, I have been considering either the Cary 805, 300B or 2A3. Which would be a better match?
Re VR4jr, I've written to Albert to find out where I can audtion them locally.
Re original Proac response 2, there's a used one on sale now, is that the one you're referring to?
I will post my findings later on.

Hi Ethifi. I would heartily concurr with Swampwalker's recommendatations. A speaker change would definately have the biggest influence. Due to the dimensions of your room, I would opt for a standmounted monitor before a floorstander. There are just so many fabulous sounding monitors to choose from and many have some serious bottom end extension whereby you wouldn't even need a sub in a room that size. Mating a musical sub to most any quality speaker can be a daunting experience to be sure and rarely accomplished without spending some serious cash. There are some oustanding monitors that will embarass a lot very expensive full range speakers in a room of your size. I would hazard to guess that most any "quality" floorstander that I can think of.... would pretty much overpower your room. In my family room at home [21ft x 17 ft with an 8 ft ceiling] I am using a pair of reference 3a deCappo i stand mounted monitors and the bass extension and resolution is something to behold. Furthermore.... they are a rather benign load for any amp and are 93db efficient. I drive them with an 18 watt single ended tube amp with my supratek syrah and no need for a subwoofer period.They can be mesmerizing with well recorded source material. Many guest's have ask me where I was hiding the sub. Another truly incredible "full range" standmounted monitor speaker I would go "way" out of my way to find is the original proac response 2 with the port in the front,[ not the later rear ported 2's]. A top shelf near field monitor that will compete with most anything out there in my books and can be driven with lower powered tube amps as well. They have a bottom end weight with some serious slam down to the mid 40 hz area and a musical midband resolution to die for, not to mention the sweet and delicate tweet all proacs are known for. These can be had out there today for under a thousand dollars.I am sure there are many more made today that I have never even heard. Swampwalker's mention of the Merlin speaker for instance, The Merlin's VSM series floorstander can compete with just about anything out there regardless of price when properly set up and placed in the appropriate room. Perhaps a little too full range for your room dimensions however Merlin also makes the TSM series stand mounted monitor's that share much of the VSM's design and beautiful voice. While I have not heard the TSM monitors, I could only hazard to guess they would be first rate as well. Hope this helps and best of luck on your journey .