I'm a bit reluctant to post this "either or question" because I know that everything in this hobby is subjective, but here goes.
I currently have a Rega RP3-24 with an Exact 2 and I want to upgrade to my final turntable. I have read all the reviews that are available on both tables and both received stellar reviews, although Fremer stated that his RP8 sample table ran a little fast. I like the simplicity of the RP8 ($3000), however, I also like the adjustability of the SL1200G ($4000) which eases the task of trying different cartridges, although I don't plan on swapping out cartridges very often. On the other hand, I am not adverse to using spacers to adjust VTA on the Rega so I can try non Rega cartridges.
So it really comes down to which table sounds better, which is built better, etc. I would like to hear from anyone who owns or has heard either of these tables. I won't have the opportunity to audition either one.
I listen to rock, jazz and some classical.
The rest of my system is: Cayin A-88T MKII Integrated with Gold Lion KT88's or Svetlana Winged C EL34 PS Audio GCPH w/Underwood Mod (planning to upgrade to Parasound JC3+) Harbeth SHL5 Plus 40th Anniversary Rega Apollo-R Accuphase T101 Cables: Morrow PH4 to phone preamp
Eric, at $4000 you are in the JA Michell Gyro SE with Techno Arm price range, call Needle Doctor or Direct Sound. If you like the REGA P3/24 with Exact and you are looking to make this your LAST table, I seriously suggest you look at this table. I went to a JA Michell after I had a Rega P3/24 with all groove tracer upgrades and a Project Xtension 10. The Project ($3500) was a few levels up from Rega but too laid back and the REGA was great but not refined enough. Enter the Gyro SE, this is my last and reference table now ...Otherwise... Get the REGA RP8 it comes with the power supply (gotta love that). Going Direct Drive instead of belt is good if your a DJ!
Matt M P.S. Try a Dynavector 10X5 or even better 20x2 low or high :-)
Thanks Matt, I'll take a look at the JA Michell. At first, I was a bit hesitant to consider direct drive, but from my research, I got the impression that the DD technology has improved in recent years.
I'm not saying that DD tables are low grade at all. Its just that they are more for people you like to have full control over the speed , adjusting pitch up or down very accurately using the slider and strobe not to mention super fast starts and stops! So, if your a really hands on active spinner, DD’s are for you! But, If you want ease of use (RP8) or infinite upgrade possibilities (Gyro SE) both tables have excellent dynamics and detail and a awesome liveliness to the music that is not easily bested. .
That Technics TT is a legend - the 1200G is the best yet - technically outstanding. Relatively speaking, Rega is very good but is more of a cool looking design which is gimmicky rather than purely functional - not really in the same league. Professional device vs awesome looking audiophile jewelry.
@ericsch - Not sure if you are prepared to get your "hands dirty", but here is an option that can work in your favour for less money.
Replace the Arm on your existing Rega with an Audiomods arm. They are superb and you can get it with a micrometer adjustment for extremely accurate VTA adjustment. Ask for the Absolute Harmony RCA’s to be installed
Get a Denon DL103 or 103r - superb cartridges on this arm
I would go with the Technics. I heard it at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest and was totally blown away by it. If I hadn't recently spent 4K on my Prime, I would have bought the Technics. The new arm is excellent and is nothing like the older one as all of the turntable is totally redesigned.
The Technics is hands down the winner. Its more speed stable and overall more dead, IOW more resistant to vibration.
Its arm is the weak link, but its better than the Rega am. which is even more of a weak link on the Rega IMO/IME. The Technics arm is far more adjustable. Its possible to replace the arm with other arms, we've installed a Triplanar 12" on it with fabulous results.
I own a Rega P-9 and recently purchased a SL1200G. I was quite surprised the SL1200G sounds better accross the board compared to the P-9. I am comparing in the same room with the same equipment. The P-9 has a Dynavector 17D-3 and the SL has a Hana SL. I should swap cartridges to give a better review but....sorry. I have always liked my P-9 and a P-7 I also own but the G is by far my new favorite
I recently brought home (October) an RP8 with an apheta 2 cartridge. It’s my first high end turntable, so I will not call myself an expert. I will tell you that Rega matches the power supply to the motor. When I measure the speed at 33 rpm with turntablist, I get 33.4 Ideal. When I measure the speed at 45 I get 45.3. I have only had a couple of people over to listen but the comments on speed are it sounds right or perhaps it’s a bit slow. I think it sounds amazing and find I am more a victim of recording quality than system flaw. A friend brought over People in Sorrow by The Art Ensemble of Chicago and it sounded so good, like they were in the room with us. My feeling is you probably can’t go wrong with either TT.
Happy to elaborate. I have no dog in the hunt from a technological standpoint, as I currently own DD, belt drive and idler drive turntables and do not feel that either technology is superior. And, not having heard the G, my comments only apply to the 1200/2 which I am very familiar with. So that may invalidate my comments from the git go.
I found the sound of the Technics rather clanky which doesn’t work for me. Is it the arm? I’m no material scientist, couldn’t tell you. Maybe the G is better in this regard. I did put an SP-25 motor unit in a Baltic birch CLD plinth with an AT arm long ago. As that is the same motor unit as the 1200 and I did not hear those colorations, I would conclude that there is a likelihood that it is the base or the arm that is contributing the sound that I don’t care for. And that may have been attended to in the intervening time.
The Rega doesn’t quite get the silence between the notes right and the Rega arm is a bit too controlled in the upper midrange for me so it has issues as well. And the lack of fine VTA adjustment is a serious flaw in a product at this price point. But everything is flawed and we make our choices. It would be best, and probably impossible, to audition both.
All of that said, I would spend my money on a Linn LP12 as it just does more that is correct to my ear. YMMV, and good luck with the hunt.
If your wife will approve the Technics 1200 G. Go for it. I have owned a LP12 since 1988. It is good. Get the Technics; Your last TT unless you hit a lottery.
I would go with the Technics. If you don't like it, you could sell it with very little loss. I don't get people knocking the arm. It is quite good for the price and not inferior to the Rega arm IMO. Of course you could buy a Triplanar 12" for the price of two Technics 1200 turntables if you want to do an upgrade.
@rotaries "DD was always superior to belt drive. If you love the Rega arms (I do), you can always mount one on a Technics or Denon deck and kick it up a notch." HOGWASH!
"That Technics TT is a legend - the 1200G is the best yet - technically outstanding. Relatively speaking, Rega is very good but is more of a cool looking design which is gimmicky rather than purely functional - not really in the same league. Professional device vs awesome looking audiophile jewelry."
I question the part about Rega tables being gimmicky. They have had a point of view that goes back a very long time and have been refining that point of view.
Part of it is that they continue to strive to make the plinths of their turntables as light and rigid as possible. The laminated, foam core, plinth on the 8 and 10 are just a further refinement of that philosophy. They could’ve probably sold it without the outer surround, but then the traditional Rega dust cover would not have fit.
The arm is particularly lacking in gimmickry as well, dating to the 1980s.
Rega is a company that is simply refining their core concepts.
Contrast that with VPI, who started with Perspex platters, then composite platters, metal platters and on to unipivot arms, captured bearing arms...no anti-skating...anti-skating....motors inboard....motors outboard...belt drive, idler drive, direct drive....maybe solar powered next.
Whatever is on the parts shelf seems to morph into a new model. Where is the point of view in that?
You have appeared to narrow this down to 2 very different turntables. I appreciate that you like the plug and play approach so to speak, but they are different, and do sound different. As opposed to looking at the technical spec so to speak - have a listen and let that dictate to you.
I found the sound of the Technics rather clanky which doesn’t work for
me. Is it the arm? I’m no material scientist, couldn’t tell you. Maybe
the G is better in this regard.
@viridian The SL-1200G is a ground-up new design, and should only be compared to older SL-1200s by looks only. In terms of sound it is considerably more neutral- it has better vibration damping, tighter speed regulation and improved materials in the tone arm.
Put another way, I'm not certain I'd recommend the older SL-1200s over a Rega, but with the new one its a no-brainer.
Which is why I said...”So that may invalidate my comments from the get go.”
I noticed that you said “...over a Rega,...” above, but the question is not about a Rega, as if all Rega decks sound the same. This is the same fallacy as my comparing the 1200/2 to the 1200G based on your comments.
The OPs question concerned the RP8. What do do you think of the Rega RP8? That may help the OP out.
Rega recognizes that coupling between the base of the arm and the platter bearing is important. Given that, they seem to be trying to save weight in the assembly, which would seem to fly in the face of the rigidity aspect. IOW the Technics is **more** rigid in this regard (employing a plinth and a case subchassis) and also more dead (employing 4 different damping schemes in the plinth/base assembly).
A powerful drive is an important aspect of any turntable. In this regard you can see that all the well-regarded vintage machines (SP-10, Lenco, Garrard 301, Empire 208) have powerful drive motors. This makes a difference when dealing with needle drops and bass tracks- the speed stability is greater; the improved speed stability is not audible as pitch but you can hear it in terms of image stability. Its not enough to have a massive platter. The Technics has a decent platter (which is also damped) and a much more powerful drive then the PR-8.
The tone arm of course can't be overlooked. The Technics arm, while looking the part of its earlier version, has improved bearings and arm materials, as well as the benefit of improved machining. You can adjust the VTA on the fly. Its hard to tell about the RP-8, but IIRC its does not have a VTA adjustment. For this reason your cartridge selection is limited.
Ralph, sorry, I’m not getting it. Have you listened to an RP 8 in controlled circumstances, and if so, how did it fall short? That would seem to be of help to the OP.
From your post I can only assume that the Linn LP12 is not a well regarded vintage machine, as “...all the well-regarded vintage machines.......have powerful drive motors.” I tend to differ on that point finding the Linn to be a well regarded vintage machine with a different design brief.
Since it was designed as a specialist product, rather than for cueing in radio stations, a less powerful motor was used as it produces less vibration than a high torque motor. What vibration is left is mitigated by the belt rather than being directly transmitted to the platter by an idler or direct drive. The trade off is less secure speed accuracy and the benefit is a lower noise floor. Those are intentional design briefs. And though you may find the resulting sound to be inferior, it seems very hard to think that saying that the Linn is not well regarded can only be the result of turning a blind eye to the historical significance and longevity of the product.
For a second I thought that you might not consider it vintage due to the age. But the SP10 came out in ‘70 and the Linn in ‘72.
Two items to consider. Is the RP8 die for an update? The difference between the RP6 and P6 is substantial. Also something to think about is your listening space and isolation. The SL1200G won’t need the same level of care and placement as the Rega. Two small points in an otherwise difficult decision. My feeling is that the 1200G is superior technology over the Rega.
Here is Fremer's review of the 1200G. The 1200G is also an Absolute Sound Product of the Year in the January 2018 issue.
Pretty much every review I've read of Rega TTs that measures rotation speed indicates that they run fast, whether it's an RP3, RP8, or something in between. Since the brand has been consistently (slightly) fast for years, I suspect it's intentional. If I were to guess why, perhaps to compensate for a low-torque motor combined with a stretchy belt.
A high-torque design with great speed consistency has notable playback advantages, particularly maintaining tempo and volume in the face of higher groove modulation--modulation that accompanies louder passages and/or a higher number of voices and instruments.
Thanks everyone for your comments, they have been very helpful. @johnnyb53 , I've read both of those reviews, also one in Stereophile. One thing that no one has mentioned is the dreaded Rega hum. My P3-24 suffers from this malady through the TTPSU, I believe. It's not noticeable during playback, but it is there while idling. I'm leaning towards the Technics. I'll make a final decision after the first of the year. Thanks again.
I have an SL1200GAE with Parasound JC3+ and Audio Technica ART9 cart. This is a spectacular combination and the last vinyl setup I will ever need. Far exceeding the VPI Scout 1.1 it replaced.
@lancelock , Great to hear that you have reached analog nirvana with your setup. As you probably read in my original post, a Parasound JC3+ is my final upgrade after I get the turntable.
I am not trying to influence anyone's decision on this, or go into debate over who's right or wrong. This is just an opinion of your fellow Audiogoner.
To me in addition to extraordinary performance, the aesthetics have always been a huge and inseparable part of the audiophile gear. I never prefer one over the other, it has to be balanced. With that said, I would never allow the tractor-like looking Technics appear on top of my rack. I am sure it's a great and reliable table, I've owned MKII in the past (1996-2002). But please keep that thing away from my current setup, thank you very much.
With that said, I'd go for Rega. Beautifully designed and an outstanding performer.
@opuslab Interesting, I never thought of the Technics as tractor-like looking, more mid-century to my eye. The Rega certainly is sleek, not as busy looking as the Technics.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and I agree the Rega is very stylish. This is less important to me than the sound although the look of the Technics does bring about certain nostalgic feelings when spinning vinyl.
@avanti1960 , I did not have the ART9 before selling the Scout. I did run a Soundsmith Zepher on the Scout which worked well but not in the same league with the SL1200GAE and ART9.
Have you listened to an RP 8 in controlled circumstances, and if so, how
did it fall short? That would seem to be of help to the OP.
From
your post I can only assume that the Linn LP12 is not a well regarded
vintage machine, as “...all the well-regarded vintage
machines.......have powerful drive motors.” I tend to differ on that
point finding the Linn to be a well regarded vintage machine with a
different design brief.
Since it was designed as a specialist
product, rather than for cueing in radio stations, a less powerful motor
was used as it produces less vibration than a high torque motor. What
vibration is left is mitigated by the belt rather than being directly
transmitted to the platter by an idler or direct drive. The trade off is
less secure speed accuracy and the benefit is a lower noise floor.
Those are intentional design briefs. And though you may find the
resulting sound to be inferior, it seems very hard to think that saying
that the Linn is not well regarded can only be the result of turning a
blind eye to the historical significance and longevity of the product.
For a second I thought that you might not consider it vintage due to the age. But the SP10 came out in ‘70 and the Linn in ‘72.
Happy holidays and all the best,
Likewise!
Its been a while since hearing the Rega in a customer's home. So I can't say that I've compared them. But I have compared the Technics to other tables such as the Kuzma, which is considerably more upscale than the Rega- if it were between the Kuzma and the Rega, I'd take the Kuzma in a heartbeat. The thing is, the Technics is able to keep up with the Kuzma (which is an excellent machine). The simple fact is, Technics did their homework and so it gives turntables costing a lot more a run for the money. IMO, most high end audio turntable manufacturers should be really worried about Technics right now.
But I have compared the Technics to other tables such as the Kuzma, which is considerably more upscale than the Rega- if it were between the Kuzma and the Rega, I'd take the Kuzma in a heartbeat. The thing is, the Technics is able to keep up with the Kuzma (which is an excellent machine). The simple fact is, Technics did their homework and so it gives turntables costing a lot more a run for the money. IMO, most high end audio turntable manufacturers should be really worried about Technics right now.
Ralph- This could get interesting, if we knew which Kuzma table you were referring to. Happy New Year!
I just ordered the Technics 1200G and it will be my retirement table. I've only owned belt drive tables but I've heard every (I believe) other approach out there and decided DD was the way to go if cogging was under control. This new table seems to have focused on solving that with its new coreless motor. It will also be a big step up for me over the Marantz TT 15S1 table I have now.
I have also spent some time hearing the 1200G at a friends house who has one and that only cemented my decision. This table runs silently as every reviewer has said.
I wanted to retire with a zero maintenance TT. No belts, a motor that should be at least as reliable as Technics motors of the past, and easy cart swapping with the removable head shell. The table also has easy to use features across the board for all critical setup efforts.
I also ordered two LP Gear Zupreme head shells (bought on Amazon however at a better price) in anticipation of the new table to serve my Lyra Delos and AT ART9 cartridges. I can't wait for it to be shipped.
@jsm71 Congratulations on getting your new TT and thanks for your comments. Your cartridge choices are awesome. For my budget, I will probably start with a Hana SL. I also have the Exact 2 on my current table with very low hours. Although I've been retired for a few years, this will also be my last turntable. I've decided to go with the Technics and will be pulling the trigger soon.
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