Might as well stir up the pot.
Simao,
Where did you get the "Rhythm and Poetry" Village Voice attribution for the etymology of the word "rap"? I've seen the term "hip hop" attributed to the Voice, but never "rap" and I can't find anything like it on a web search. The idea of that coinage also strikes me as very unlikely, given the much earlier use of the term to describe racial debate in the US and its broad adaptation in the African American community (see H. Rap Brown) in the 1960's. Further, the musician Joe Tex ("Gotcha") claimed that he used the word "rap" to describe his spoken vocals as early as the 1960's.
Emailsts,
As to rap not descending from "legitimate" artists, many in the earliest generation of rappers were arguably much deeper into the historical context of the blues than any of the white rockers revered on this site. If you explore African griots, rap seems very much a part of the same evolutionary musical process as blues and rock music and it's every bit as true (and probably truer) to the African musical traditions that underpin the blues.
Csontos,
Don't couch your argument in math when it ends here:
"Sure there are zillions of possible melodies, the vast majority being pure garbage as relates to our ears. "
Even if this statement were true, determining which combinations are "pure garbage" is a wholly personal judgement rendering any math before it entirely moot. The rules of standard Western musical scales and diatonics might seem restrictive, but there's a lot of room to expand them. Modern classical musicians live in this space, and even pop music can be (and is being) constantly tweaked to new and interesting effect (Steven Sondheim is a good example of a "pop" musician exploring new harmonic ideas). Beyond that, there is a world of alternate tonality (the semi tones, quarter tones, and micro-tones of Indian Raga, for example) that can be endlessly hybridized with more familiar approaches.
Your notion that all "the best ones " (musical ideas) have been exhausted (and the math to support that idea) speaks narrowly to your personal definition of "best".
I don't like very much rap music, but - IMO - artists from Gil Scott Heron to Grandmaster Flash have produced rap that shouldn't be dismissed. It's striking how many posts here defend the author's personal taste in absolute terms. Where does "discriminating taste" end and "close minded" begin?
Marty
Simao,
Where did you get the "Rhythm and Poetry" Village Voice attribution for the etymology of the word "rap"? I've seen the term "hip hop" attributed to the Voice, but never "rap" and I can't find anything like it on a web search. The idea of that coinage also strikes me as very unlikely, given the much earlier use of the term to describe racial debate in the US and its broad adaptation in the African American community (see H. Rap Brown) in the 1960's. Further, the musician Joe Tex ("Gotcha") claimed that he used the word "rap" to describe his spoken vocals as early as the 1960's.
Emailsts,
As to rap not descending from "legitimate" artists, many in the earliest generation of rappers were arguably much deeper into the historical context of the blues than any of the white rockers revered on this site. If you explore African griots, rap seems very much a part of the same evolutionary musical process as blues and rock music and it's every bit as true (and probably truer) to the African musical traditions that underpin the blues.
Csontos,
Don't couch your argument in math when it ends here:
"Sure there are zillions of possible melodies, the vast majority being pure garbage as relates to our ears. "
Even if this statement were true, determining which combinations are "pure garbage" is a wholly personal judgement rendering any math before it entirely moot. The rules of standard Western musical scales and diatonics might seem restrictive, but there's a lot of room to expand them. Modern classical musicians live in this space, and even pop music can be (and is being) constantly tweaked to new and interesting effect (Steven Sondheim is a good example of a "pop" musician exploring new harmonic ideas). Beyond that, there is a world of alternate tonality (the semi tones, quarter tones, and micro-tones of Indian Raga, for example) that can be endlessly hybridized with more familiar approaches.
Your notion that all "the best ones " (musical ideas) have been exhausted (and the math to support that idea) speaks narrowly to your personal definition of "best".
I don't like very much rap music, but - IMO - artists from Gil Scott Heron to Grandmaster Flash have produced rap that shouldn't be dismissed. It's striking how many posts here defend the author's personal taste in absolute terms. Where does "discriminating taste" end and "close minded" begin?
Marty