I have also looked into this. For the reasons that you site I assume they are not made in Norway. Hegel products do not say Made in Norway. My guess is they are actually made in China. |
Taters,
I also thought they were made in Norway. Until I looked closely and realized they only say Norway -- not Made in Norway.
S1nn3r,
I agree with you that they are misleading people. The units say Norway but they do not say Made in Norway.
Schubert,
I agree with you. But there are also a lot of poorly made products coming out of China these days.
Oldcar63,
You stated that your dealer friend said, "they were over priced in comparison to other lines". Were you referring to Consonance or Hegel products -- or both? Please clarify. |
Zd542,
I agree with you on this point. |
Yogiboy,
On their site they do show the rear of their units. But it only says Norway -- not Made in Norway.
Dayglow,
I agree. They might have to lower the price if people knew where they were really made.
Bcgator,
You make a good point. There are some good quality products made in China. But there are also some poor quality products made there. I think what folks are saying here is that Hegel should state up front where their products are made. Otherwise, it looks deceptive -- like they are trying to hide something -- which begs the question what are they trying to hide? |
Oldcar63,
Thanks for filling me in. I had a problem with a Hegel product recently. Who knows ... maybe the Made in China factor was related. |
S1nn3r,
You stated, "If a company doesn't have the integrity or honestly of being up front with their customers then I can only imagine how hard it is to claim for warranty service."
I agree completely. I had a problem recently with a Hegel amp. They refused to stand behind their product! I am still in shock over their reaction -- and the fact that it cost me dearly.
Zd542,
I agree with you. There is nothing racist in all this. I live in Asia and am married to a local girl. The problem is that there are Made in China high end products that are good quality and others that are not good quality -- or that are flawed. I recently had a bad experience with a Hegel amp. Years ago I had a bad experience with a Made in China DAC from another high end company. You just never know. |
S1nn3r,
I totally agree. Needless to say, I would never go near another Hegel product after my recent experience with them. |
Did you notice, not a peep out of Hegel to explain things here. Ted Denney of Synergistic Research, Ralph Karsten of Atma-Sphere, Bobby Palkovic of Merlin -- God bless him -- would all have chimed in by now. Not a word from Hegel. |
Dayglow,
I agree that the high end audio media has been a lap dog for Hegel for many years. |
Courant,
I recently heard from a dealer friend in Singapore about another well-known Norwegian high end audio company with a similar attitude. He said he would never go near either of them. |
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Dayglow,
I also feel that Hegel products are overpriced and that they should have come clean a long time ago by making it clear their products are Made in China -- so everyone could clearly judge for themselves. |
Dave_72,
And so much good stuff made in the U.S. too -- and a lot cheaper. For instance the Atma-Sphere OTLs made by Ralph Karsten. And you will never have a customer service problem with Ralph -- unlike with Hegel, if you are unlucky like I was recently. I got stiffed by them. |
Sonicbeauty,
You stated, "Hegel's are just too expensive for what they offer". I fully agree. They want to benefit from the Made in Norway cachet without being made in Norway. |
Raks,
I agree. I recently had a Hegel amp that had a design flaw on the one hand -- and Hegel stonewalling me on the other hand. Who the heck knows what the story was on the production side? At least if they made it clear about Made in China instead of just stamping Norway on the back everyone could make a clear choice. This is where the deception lies. |
Vez,
I agree. Hegel should be making this clear. Instead they choose to hide the simple fact of where their products are made. |
Dave_72,
I agree. Atma-Sphere is a world-class amplifier maker -- and a sleeper. |
Zd542,
You stated, "How else would you read that? No one here is bashing companies that clearly label the country of origin. Were bashing the ones that try to trick people. And notice I said companies, not countries. This has nothing to do with China. It has everything to do with Hegel."
I totally agree.
Regarding the talk about racism and xenophobia, I live in Asia and am married to a local girl. From my point of view this has nothing whatsoever to do with racism or zenophobia. This is about deceptive business practices and nothing more. |
Zd542,
You're welcome. You stated, "... and I would feel more comfortable buying from a company that doesn't hide from the fact [of where their products are made]." I feel the same way. |
Aolmrd1241,
The fact that Hegel is so blase about this speaks volumes, IMO. It seems to me this attitude is an entrenched part of their corporate culture. I had a recent problem with a Hegel amp. At best Hegel was blase. Sad to say, it got a lot worse than that. The bottom line -- they refused to stand behind their product and just walked away. Unbelievable -- but true. |
Vez,
You stated regarding the interview, "Although he wrote all the details about the facilities and the people working there, with an analytical presentation of Bent Holter the head of the company, he never mentions anything about the factory. There is no word about the most important part of a manufacturing company: the factory. It is clear that Hegel requested from Bent not to mention the "forbidden" word, China."
This reinforces the impression that Hegel is deliberately trying to hide an important truth about their products. This begs the question, "Why?".
Soix,
You stated, "What is unforgivable, however, is to not stand behind your product when something does go wrong, and what I heard here would definitely give me pause in buying any Hegel product."
This actually happened to me. Without exaggerating, it was shocking -- to the tune of thousands of hard-earned dollars lost to me.
You also stated, "Either way they need to stand behind their products and support their customers or it's a non-starter at least for me."
Needless to say, I would never even think of going near another Hegel product, no matter how good their reputation. They don't have any reputation with me after what I went through with them. This has only happened with a single high end audio company in all the years I have spent building my system. It is unthinkable that any high end audio company will not stand behind their product. But, with Hegel, it is indeed thinkable. |
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Dchang1981,
I agree this must be BS. They just don't want to admit the truth -- or stand behind their product if something goes wrong. These are very low end business practices for a so-called high end company. |
Zd542,
The overseas dealer and Hegel stood shoulder-to-shoulder on this. As a result, I was between a rock and a very hard place. |
Zd542,
Regarding casework, this distracts from the issue of where the units are made and that Hegel consistently avoids being straight about it. |
Knghifi,
Please note that I never said the agent's customer service was bad. When I said the dealer went shoulder-to-shoulder with Hegel I was referring to their not standing behind the product. But they were not disrespectful or insulting -- unlike Hegel from their Head Office whose service was abysmal i.e. non-existent. The dealer did what they felt they could based on their point of view which was in agreement with Hegel's. It was up to Hegel to step up to the plate and let the dealer know they would stand behind their product and make good -- which they did not do. Hegel simply walked away -- and the dealer followed. |
Kbuzz,
That's an excellent suggestion.
Knghifi,
You make a great point here.
Zd542,
You stated, "The pattern I see is too many dealers and manufactures [sic] treat their customers like crap. And in this case, Hegel is to blame ... If Hegel was doing a better job, this thread probably wouldn't exist."
Personally, I have had very few problems with high end audio manufacturers. I guess I have been lucky -- up till now. But, in this case, I agree with you completely. If Hegel had simply used common sense and seen that they had everything to gain by standing behind their product and, on the contrary, a lot to lose if they did not do so then we would not be talking about this here. To me it shows there is something very wrong with how they run their company -- where company pride takes the front seat and customer care takes the back seat. Very odd.
Trelja,
An very interesting revelation. I did not know this before you mentioned it. |
Knghifi,
You stated, "Hegel has excellent customer service." That may be so -- until you have a problem. I am not the only one who has observed this personally. |
Mribob,
You stated, "I experienced a minor intermittent sound quality issue from one channel ...". It is interesting that you experienced a similar problem with your Hegel amp. Hegel stated to me they never had a similar problem with any of their amps. In your case, with a minor channel issue, they acknowledged the problem and stood behind their product. But, in my case, regarding a major issue of one channel conking, out they simply walked away choosing to blame my system for the problem. |
Aolmrd1241,
The question remains whether or not Hegel will come out and state this publicly and whether or not they intend, in future, to state that their products are Made in China instead of simply stamping Norway on the back of each unit. Do not customers who pay a high price for their products have the right to know where they are made -- and for this to be stated by Hegel -- and not left to be discovered on an audio forum? |
Zd542,
You stated, "I took Sabi [sic] at his word. I guess he could be lying." Of course, this could also apply to any posts on the forum. |
Zd542,
I could not have stated it more simply than you did when you stated, "If you build a good product, and are not ashamed of where its made, just say so." All we are asking here is that Hegel just be up front with everyone. Since they are completely avoiding the issue this begs the question, "Is Hegel trying to hide something?" I certainly hope not, for their sake. |
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Aolmrd1241,
Being up front should certainly be company policy when if comes to asking customers to pay $5000 or more for high end audio products. I think this goes without saying. Companies that have a culture of corporate pride that takes precedence over transparency are bound to be found out eventually and will suffer the consequences. |
Vez,
You stated, "Hegel avoids to write made in China for commercial reasons." This is clearly what is happening, IMO.
You also stated, "Their refusal to provide important information, shows lack of respect for their customers." I agree. I believe their attitude towards me in the case I cited earlier in this thread reinforces this fact. When problems arise with their products they appear to be selective when it comes to whom they will show respect to -- depending on the perceived commercial risks to their company. IMO, they are very short-sighted -- and foolish -- in this respect. After talking with Hegel a number of times I was astonished by their attitude. Frankly, it was hard to believe I was talking to a high end audio company. I have had contact with dozens of high end audio companies over the years and had never experienced such a self-protective attitude before.
My contact with Hegel left me wondering where their reputation comes from. As long as things go well with their products everything is fine. When things do not go so well you just entered their high end audio casino. You may win or you may lose. This is no way to run a high end audio company. Refusing to disclose where their products are made is also glaring proof -- and reinforces my belief -- that there is something very odd happening in their corporate culture that needs to be seriously reviewed, IMO.
Aolmrd1241,
You're right, of course, when you stated, "less than $5,000 also". |
Soniqmike,
In your OP you stated, "I have tried getting a clear-cut answer from dealers with no success." I find this very odd. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it sounds like they are standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Hegel. This is a lamentable indication of their lack of integrity. |
I find it odd and very telling that no one from Hegel has bothered to chime in here. Many manufacturers participate on the forum, especially when problems of one kind or another are talked about regarding their products. I can think of a number of manufacturers who do not hesitate to join the discussions here. That Hegel will not even acknowledge this thread is truly lamentable, IMHO. |
Zd542,
LOL. But the Norwegians I talked to at Hegel all spoke perfect English.
Yogiboy,
I could use one myself. I live in Asia and have developed a serious medical condition -- Bagel Deficiency Syndrome. |
Taters,
You stated, "I think they were rather be in denial than chime in." I think you're right.
You also stated, "I guess these manufacturers look at audiophiles as marks." Lamentably, I think this is true in many cases.
Zd542,
You stated, "I don't want some audio reviewer selecting what information they allow me to have." Neither do I.
Vez
You stated, "The majority of Hegel owners don't know the real origin of their dearly paid equipment, and for me this is unacceptable." This is also unacceptable to me.
You also stated, "The "omertà " by the audio reviewers, correctly makes us believe that something very wrong goes on behind the scene." Unfortunately, I think you're right about this.
Dayglow,
You stated, "... but I always thought audio reviewers were on our side?" With all the perks some reviewers receive, is there any question whose side they are on? |
S1nn3r,
You stated, "I don't think anyone is complaining about made in China in this thread. We are more concern [sic] about the ethics used by these shady companies. Like hiding the fact where it is assembled."
Exactly. It is a question of ethics. For me this all comes down to respect for the customer. It should not be OK to keep important information from customers regarding the simple but important matter of where the product is made. This begs the question why Hegel would go to the trouble of creating this deception. |
Talk2me,
You stated, "But, they are still getting rave reviews, just not from me." Lots of companies get so-called "rave" reviews. But since a lot of the review industry is corrupt I believe we should read any "rave" advisedly. |
Knghifi,
Are you saying there is nothing between capitalism and the nanny state? I can think of a lot of countries that combine both and do so successfully -- and that include hope, growth, innovation, and much more. |
If I may interrupt this discussion -- getting back to the O.P., I imagine the cost of production in China is pretty low. How can a company like Hegel ethically justify charging such high prices? |
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With all the great choices out there ethics can make a difference when choosing which components to buy. If given the choice, would you prefer to buy from a Made in U.S.A. company with great ethics or from a Made in China company with questionable ethics? |
Andysf,
You stated, "I briefly researched Hegel integrated amps recently when trying to decide which integrated amp would best suit my needs. I don't remember seeing it mentioned anywhere online that they were made in China. As I will not buy audio equipment made in Mainland China, this would have been a deal breaker. I am amazed no dealer or distributor has commented on the thread yet! Things like this can cost them sales."
What you say shows that where a product is made does matter to some people. The point is that we have a right to know where products are made. This should not be hidden from the consumer by companies who do not want the truth to be known.
Onhwy61,
You state, "Obviously some people in this thread care about where a product is made, but it's not clear if that's a major concern for the majority of Americans. Your computer, cell phone, flat screen, clothing, year-round fruits & vegetables etc. are all foreign sourced. Go to a local big box and look for domestically sourced products. Regrading [sic] ethics, you are compromised whatever you buy. It's a global economy."
This may be true. But we have a right to know where products are made so we can decide whether or not we want to purchase them.
Zd542
You stated, "For the Hegel situation we're discussing on this thread, I can't really fault China. I fault Hegel. The Chinese are just doing what's being asked of them. If Hegel tells them to change the design and put Made in China in big letters on the rear face plate, I'm sure they will."
I agree. This is not the fault of China. It is the fault of Hegel. The question remains unanswered whether or not Hegel will ask the manufacturer to be straight with everyone and put Made in China on the back of their products. |
Trelja,
You stated, "Everyone involved on the business side of that venture understands the cache [sic] of a European high-end audio component draws people in a powerful way, and gets them to happily pay more money than a product made in China." You hit the nail squarely on the head here.
Vez,
You stated, "The fact is that Hegel decided to cheat its customers by making them believe that their equipment are made in a different country from the one they are actually made. Dealers and reviewers helped Hegel to complete the trick." You are absolutely correct, IMO.
But, after my recent disastrous experience with Hegel, I would be very surprised if they apologized or admitted anything publicly. Hegel seems to have a corporate culture that mandates company pride above all else -- even if that means cutting off their nose to spite their own face. I know this may sound astonishing to some people but that is what my recent experience with them came down to. |
Schubert,
A dealer friend mentioned this to me regarding another well-known high-end Norwegian manufacturer. Although I don't usually like to generalize in this way, this may be the case here. If so, it is still no excuse for unethical business practices, IMO. |
Schubert,
Of course not. That's normal for them. They go around wearing blinders and accuse customers of not being able to see straight. They are strangely myopic, IMO. |
Vez,
It looks like anything goes -- as long as you can get away with it. That's what passes for morality these days. This is a sad commentary on the decline of business ethics -- and much more, IMO. |
Audio companies get away with all sorts of shenanigans. Claims are often made that bear no resemblance to reality. We know this is supported by reviewers and we often expect no better. But to create the image that your product is made in your home country when it is actually Made in China -- and then stonewalling over the matter -- is taking deception to a whole new level that is totally unacceptable, IMO. |
I find it odd that any high end audio company would be willing to risk their reputation over the basic matter of product labeling, and over the basic matter of not standing behind their product (referring back to the recent interaction I had with Hegel posted about in another forum thread). |
Onhwy61,
May I respectfully point out that I did not start this thread. Many of us have expressed their ideas and feelings around the issue at hand. One may speculate what effect, if any, this has had on Hegel's sales. By the same token, this kind of speculation would fairly apply to countless other threads on the forum.
Zd542,
I agree with you that a lot of people buy their equipment based on the opinions of reviewers. Which is why they are highly valued and so frequently quoted. |
Kalikid2013.
You stated, "this tour [of the McIntosh factory] was an incredible experience, an experience that is not possible with products made overseas ... it makes me proud to support hard working American men and women who take great pride in the quality and workmanship of their product." I wish I were able to take the tour myself. I am sure your feelings are shared by many others. |
