Dear Applebook: This one has very good performance and could be your last tonearm:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1275516349&/Lustre-GST-801-Tonearm
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Here is one new, I just purchased the 9" version. I showed it to a friend who used to sell audio and he guessed that it was a $2000 arm. I use to have the Lustre, which is a good arm and has VTA adjustment while playing. I would go with the Jelco myself as it is new and I believe more likely to fit a wide range of cartridges.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtnrm&1275543991&/Jelco-SA-750L-hi-end-damping-f |
I assume you are talking about the TransFi Terminator t3 linear tracking airbearing arm. It would be about $1,300 why not get it instead of taking an interim step. I actually saw one for sale here on agon about a month ago for $975. I bought one about 6 months ago directly from Vic and love it. |
Dear Stanwal: +++++ " and I believe more likely to fit a wide range of cartridges. " +++++
do you mean against the Lustre? if yes: could you explain about? because the Lustre is a removable headshell design where you can change the effective mass. I use the Lustre with low weight high compliance MM/MI cartridges and with high weight low compliane LOMC cartridges and always performs just great.
In the other side the Lustre design was a way better design ( for many years to come. ) that the time/year where see the " light ".
It is a dinamic balanced design where you can run it in that way or in static balance way, very good tonearm bearing, azymuth control through the headshell, different weight counterweights to mount any cartridge, VTF is applied through a magnetic mechanism as the antistatic one, VTA on the fly, internal wiring is silver and its internal damping ( no oil ) is very good.
Can you ask for more?, maybe but IMHO not through the Jelco ( that I like ) or even the TransFi. IMHO the Lustre is an " arm " and many today top designs could " envy " or " dream " with the Lustre overall design.
Maybe you need to test today that Lustre if you have any opportunity about.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Hi Applebook, I agree with Raul regarding the Lustre but
I want to add the EPA-100. Both are fantastic and can compete with any other regardless of price. I own both i.a.
Regards, |
What is the mass of the Lustre without headshell compared to the 9" 750? It is my impression that the 750 is less but couldn't find the definitive answer. I used the 801 many years ago and it was not among the top arms THEN, let alone now. Have you compared it to the Jelco? The OP wanted an arm longer than 9", the Jelco is one of the few that would fall in his price range. I intend to do the opposite, to put my Lustre headshells on the 750 to play around with some of my low compliance cartridges.I am aware of your very idiosyncratic views on the subject and don't care to get into a protracted debate over questions that involve opinion and taste. |
Dear Stanwal: +++++ " protracted debate over questions that involve opinion and taste " +++++
come on, don't you read some of the Lustre characteristics? do you know how name it?: D E S I G N .
If you don't have on hand the Lustre you can't speak about, buy the one on the link and try it and then comeback. Btw, I owned several Jelco and Jelco OEM tonearms, nothing wrong with them but the Lustre is on a way different quality level.
Please tell me 2-3 vintage or today tonearms that outperform it not because you " imagine " that but because you already test them against the Lustre.
I respect you but seems to me that you don't know what you are talking about.
Applebook, needs help not a useless controversy where you have no real and precise today evidence about.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Raul, anytime you would like me to offer YOU unsolicited advice on your system I will be glad to do so. You seem to think your opinion is the only thing that counts and that the oftener you repeat your fantasies the more true they become.Whenever anyone says anything you disagree with you attack them personally. You respect me but think I am ignorant; strangely, that mirrors my attude about you except for the respect part. A cursory look at the literature will reveal very few who agree with you, I have know almost no one in the last 25 years who used a MM cartridge in preference to MC. I suppose companies like Ortofon that make both are lying to their customers when they say that their MCs are their best cartridges. I could refure you to contemporary tests of the Lustre and some other arms you admire done by blind listening panels but your mind is made up. YOU gave NO evidence whatsoever to refute anything I said except to express your opinion. You are welcome to yours and I will continue to express mine, I am sorry that this appears to make you uncomfortable. I addressed the OP , not you and said that while I liked the Lustre I would buy the Jelco. I am sorry that you feel I have no right to my opinion, but as he wanted a 12" arm I don't see how the Lustre is a better choice, unless it has grown since I had one. Have you owned one of the 12" 750s? If so what was wrong with it? |
Don't stuff around and go side way, for a bit more just go for the T3Pro. You won't regret it. I have the Jelco 750L( good value for new arm and for SPU /Denon 103),Phantom ii, Micro MA505mk3, FR64FX, etc, on various turntables but I think T3Pro is simply fabulous once dialled in and provides fantastic value.
Very dynamic, fine resolution, open and big sound. And the maker Vic is great to deal with and helpful post sell. |
Dear Stanwal: +++++ " Whenever anyone says anything you disagree with you attack them personally " +++++
No, the point is that seems to me that you try to diminish what not only is very good tonearm design ( even by today standards. ) but one that has very good build quality and perfromance, that's all.
About the MM/MC cartridge subject this is not the place to talk about, there is a 2,000+ posts thread where you can read several other opinions about like this one from Halcro:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1200430667&openflup&1991&4#1991
Btw, Nandric agree in this thread with what I posted: thank you Nandric, I agree too on the Technics EPA-100.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
If you actually read what I originally said I agreed that the 801 was a good arm. If you read contemporary reviews no one thought at the time that it was "the best" arm. The EPA 500, which I had at the same time was a better arm, as were others I have used. I preferred the Zeta, Ittok, SME 4, SME 309, VPI 12.7, Graham 2.2 and probably the Fidelity Research 64. I would still recommend a very good NEW arm [the Jelco 750] over a 30 year old used arm for the average user. I cannot understand how expressing a personal preference for one product over another somehow denigrated the less favored product. My opinions are just that, opinions. I do not confuse them with infallible pronouncements that somehow affect the structure of the universe. Since you don't think I know what I am talking about why do you CARE what I think. You appear to be one with Augustine in regarding it to be a sin to let another remain in error. Let me warn you, that path leads to the Spanish Inquisition. |
Dear Stanwal: That you even prefer that FR64 " crap " of tonearm put things in real perspective.
Anyway, to each one his own.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear all, an tonearm is an mechanical 'device' so one should think that the most issues are 'objective' in 'nature' or according to physical Laws . As Raul put it 'its all about the design'. He should elaborate on this 'argument' more but there are many contributions from him to found his opininon. But there is also the so called 'subjective part'. I really love my Triplanar VII and each time I hear some negative statement about 'my' Triplanar I get angry. Ie our hobby is full of emotions. I even think that this is the essence of our hobby.
Despite of this I am very interested in the 'objective' issues and curious to learn from Raul, Dertonarm and others
about the the essence of the tonearm design. I personaly am
very glad that we have such persons in our forum.
Regards, |
Dear nandric: Agree.
Unfortunatelly there are at least two " subjective " factors that affect our each one objective side. One is the subjective hearing ( what we heard. about ) and the other is that we want " win " the controversy and always are the " emotions " down there.
IMHO the main point/subject/target in this Agon Forum is not only give an opinion to " win " or whatever but to help the other people with no commercial interest on mind.
I'm not saying that in this thread any one could have a commercial attitude, no.
regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Dear Raul, Your 'subjective factors' are of course involved
but I disagree regarding the 'subjective hearing'. As I put
it elswhere 'we hear' (normal hearing pressuposed) in the same way. But we do interpret what we hear with all our brain, experience,knowledge, sensitivitys, talents,etc. And there the 'equality' omong us ends. You can't compare
Mozart with 'any other' composer; an real genius is incomprehensible to us. I have some professional musicians
as friends (Concert Gebouw) and thought that they 'hear different' then I. But this is an wrong description. They
know much more about the music and are much better educated in this 'part' of human activity then I am. So there is not much sensible 'contribution' from my side when they visit me for some listening sessions. They are,so to speak, on an other level then I. I have,btw, no problem with this 'truht' because we have an tremendous
division of labour or activitys.
Regards,
Regards,
|
Dear Raul, when HIFICHOICE reviewed detachable headshell tone arms in the 80s the FR was the best performing one, I don't recall if the Lustre was included in the group but several respected arms were. You are apparently intent on confusing your personal opinion with THE TRUTH, I do not make that mistake. I can not understand how anyone who makes the laughable statements you do is taken seriously by anyone but that is not my problem. Anyone who would promote a P Mount cartridge with adapter as an ultimate cartridge has a perspective different not only from me but from anyone else I know. About the time you got into audio I was already using a much better Technics cartridge, the 205, which remains one of the best MMs ever made. I still have a couple. |
All of this mud-slinging is going off-topic.
I think there are a variety of arms under $1k which are really quite good. I don't want to be accused of talking my own book (I still have a closet full of stuff to get rid of) so I won't name names here. Some which have been mentioned on the thread already are excellent. Some might be tough to find under $1k.
However... without naming names here... if you look at any major Japanese manufacturer of high end turntables in the 1978-1984 period, many of them sold turntables in full form and modular form (i.e. you could buy a ready-to-play set, or you could choose your motor, your plinth, your arm, or just buy one or two of the three). If you take a look at the tonearm from their top "full form" turntable which was also sold as an after-market option, it means it can be easily mounted on another table. In the majority of cases, those arms are really excellent deals for the money now. Some have already been mentioned in the thread and some have not. They ranged from effective length of about 220mm to about 250mm, and then some tables had "long arm" lengths which were in the area of 282mm. In addition, there were some arms from Japanese manufacturers which were not turntable manufacturers but instead specialized in after-market accessories (like arms, occasionally carts, and sometimes a few other tidbits). In many cases, those arms were also excellent. One of those has been mentioned here too but there are a few others. |
Who is HIFICHOICE in the 80s?????
Please don't answer. |
Dear nandric: What you explain is what I?m refering to but I can see was a bad explanation from my part.
regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
+++++ " who would promote a P Mount cartridge with adapter as an ultimate cartridge has a perspective different not only from me but from anyone else I know. " +++++
well that your world and " any one else I know " be a small/tiny island does means almost nothing because in the MM/MI thread are several/lot of persons that think those P-mount cartridges are great.
I don't want to ask about several great P-mount cartridges but only one: do you have on hand or heard it in the last month the Azden P50VL?, if not you can't understand why other people but you are so happy enjoying this Azden P-mount cartridge you can't even talk or give an opinion on P-mount cartridges like this Azden.
Good that you own the 205: finally we agree on something. I own the 205MK4 and is really great.
Don't leave that this thread stress you, stay calm and be happy as I'm.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Hi T_bone, So far as I know you live in Japan and you made
me very curious about all of those tonearms that you avoid
to name. Alas I don't understand your reasons. On the contrary because you can provide as with many informations
that we are not familiar with. I can add the Micros to 'my'
names (dare not mention FR-64 'cause of Raul) but this is not in any way 'suprising'. I hope your reason is not 'hidden' in the same closet with all those gatherings?
Regards, |
Dear nandric: T_bone is an audio analog item seller. If you browse through the Agon advertising you can see many tonearms that T_bone carry and has on sale. I have to say too that some of them really good ones.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Nandric,
You've got private mail. |
