I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!
Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.
Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.
Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.
Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....
About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2... I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.
At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.
Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor. The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!) So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere! Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).
Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)
Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).
Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??
I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?
Better Japanese MC cartridges prices are so high in the US because people like you are prepared to pay what is asked. " Like you " does not necessarily means you, I think you hesitate. Don't pay it, period. UK prices are sometimes lower, from authorized dealers, but still high. Try analogueseduction.net This is all not really my problem, I will stay with MM or maybe try used MC at some point. For some audiophiles $5k cartridge is not expensive, they buy it and if they don't like it they sell it for $1k. No big deal, next $5k cartridge..
On a more personal note, they can go have themselves with these prices. So can those who pay these prices. No cartridge is worth $5k let alone more, but in this kind of bazaar economy strange things happen and this is not the strangest one. $5k for a very good turntable is okay, for a very good tonearm - BS.
I got the same problem as you a few years back so I needed to rely on other audiophiles guy and specially on one of them who has the same taste in classical music as I have. I heard zyx, ,koetsu, air tight... on a high end turntable and finish buying a zyx airy 3 whose I am totally satisfied. I selected the first batch of cartridges by reading the blog of A Salvator . Hard to find a reliable reviewer.
Chinese seller 2juki you have mentioned sells only grey market products, you will not get a warranty from the manufacturers on products purchased from him, never. You can only pretend to protect yourself under paypal buyer’s protection if you buy from him on ebay.
Official distributors of brand new High-End cartridges who does not have their own demo at their showrooms must be avoided, the way they do business is not right.
Look at the Miyajima distribution in USA, Robyn Wayatt has offered trial on Miyajima cartridges only few years ago. Not sure about the situation right now, but you can ask him. Moyajima Kansui must be amazing cartridge at your price range.
I remember when the first $1000 cartridge appeared - 1978 (Koetsu). And audiophiles gasped! The wealthy rushed out to buy them, while we peons had to make-do with our Denon and Supex MC's! Don't forget that one of the best MC's (of all time!), the FR1mk3F sold at retail for a mere $230! I owned several! And I used a Verion (Cotter) P transformer ($375!) with my Denon's and FR's. SQ beyond any MM type! So looking back from the past 40+ years cartridge prices have increased (along with everything else) but today's stratospheric prices for so-called TOP mc cartridges is simply appalling! There is just NOT enough material or handiwork in these things to justify paying multi-thousands! Rich audiophiles with too much money and too little sense keep this market going!
At least for us (the not-wealthy) there are still affordable and excellent mc cartridges available! The various Denon's and Hana's (see Herb Reichert's recent review in Stereophile) offer the best bang-for-the buck choices for excellent sound!
From my recollection of those distant days (the late '70s) mc cartridges were sold mainly to customers coming into an audio store (remember those?) and asking for and buying (without extensive listening!) the latest ones touted by the various mags (TAS, Stereophile, Stereopus, TAC, IAR). Beginner audiophiles were sold the cheap Grado FTE's (and later the G series) MI's. At that time paying $200 for a mc cartridge was considered real extravagant! After all, a Grado could be had for $50 - or less!
Expensive (greater than $1K) MC's are the new crack for the wealthy enthusiasts! And the pushers are again the mags and the retailers/distributors/importers. A cartridge mafia!
Regardless of whatever you call it (percent or points) the dealer makes a profit in US dollars of approximately $1500+ on a $5K sale. I worked in a high-end audio store and I saw what the actual costs were for many products. No altruism there!
... the dealer makes a profit
in US dollars of approximately $1500+ on a $5K sale. I worked in a
high-end audio store and I saw what the actual costs were for many
products. No altruism there!
A store is a business, not an altruistic enterprise. Did the store where you worked pay you a salary? I hope so. And that salary would have come from the store's gross profit. Or, are so so altruistic that you waived your paycheck from the store?
Like you I needed to replace a Lyra Delo‘s a while back. Like you I was totally fed up with the scenario and refused to pay those crazy crazy prices. I ended up buying a van den hul colibri from a gentleman in the Netherlands brand new at less than 50% of retail. At first I thought I had made a mistake because it was very ruthless and took a while to break in but then it was a very fine cartridge. Then I bought a NOS Fidelity research MC201 for 500 bucks Canadian that I felt was every bit as good so I sold the van den hul. As always there was very minor differences with the VDH doing somethings a tiny bit better but the Fidelity research seem to excel at presenting the music as a cohesive whole and just being very very enjoyable. Back when I still had the lira I inquired about having it rebuilt by Lyra and was told I had to go through the American distributor and it would end up being almost 2K. Essentially it was a few hundred less than a new cartridge. I was fed some nonsense about them going the extra mile blah blah blah. But I had a friend who had an older cartridge that was built by lira but not Lyra branded and he went straight to the source and got rebuilt for about 1K. So essentially the distributor is making $1000 for forwarding my mail. Not cool for me. Don’t understand why anybody would do business that way in this day and age of everything being accessible on the Internet. So I will no longer purchase any Lyra products. Even though I do love them! Lately I have been buying high-end cartridges used trying them out for a while and then reselling them. Not too much risk if you buy smart from sellers with lots of positive feedback. But I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that we should just not bother with this nonsense. There are values to be had such as the audio Teknika ART seven and nine. I currently have one that I may resell, but is the real deal. I will probably sell it though due to the fact that it has fairly high output so does not really work well with my system as all the other cartridges have less than .2 or around . Three tops
@cleeds in my experience that is simply not true. I have a few friends who are dealers and The Profit is usually around closer to 40% And often times all they do is put in an order and give you the merchandise when it comes in.
If you are a music lover, it takes years to choose a cartridge because of the many different personalities of cartridges.
Most of the comments seem to indicate there is some kind of absolute value that can be attributed to cartridges that can be measured on an objective scale.
I wouldn't take anyone's word for "their best cartridge"; they are assuming they're ears like my music, or my ears like they're music, or what kind of music you like doesn't matter. However, there is a method of getting good advice from professional reviewers.
Let's say you are interested in "Koetsu Urishi"; the very first thing you do is find reviews of this cartridge where your favorite music is reviewed.
Based on this review, I would buy this cartridge today if it was in my price range; that's because of the music that was reviewed. Naturally I know a whole lot more than that about Koetsu, but when my favorite music is reviewed, I'm positively sure that I'm at the end of the line in my selection. Of course this is after you have taken into consideration all of the other factors necessary.
Sorry, but you would be asking for trouble by doing what you suggest. IMHO, IF you buy a cartridge like a Koetsu on somebody's recommendation or a review ( regardless of the amount of research you have done)-- you are taking a BIG risk. Here's why, you mount the cartridge on your arm, you listen...and oh shoot, the thing sounds like sh---t. what now? Sell it with x number of hours on it at a huge discount, or maybe keep it and start to change out your ancillary gear...in a long and costly voyage to try and get something that will play nice with it? You tell me...
BTW, I still am curious why this one vendor in China seems to have a 'lock' on selling Benz's...and it's not 2juki; although he is on this forum. ( Sells other high end cartridges at considerable discounts too...way less than authorized dealers?). But good luck to you if you buy from him and have a problem!
@analogluvr
The Van Den Hul dealers in the US claim that the vendor in the Netherlands is NOT selling you a new Van Den Hul! Instead it is a very used model that has been 'refurbished' and freshened up. The serial number on the box will tell you the age....and the age of these cartridges is anything BUT recent!! ...and of course IF you buy one of these, they are NOT covered under the warranty in the US. ( Therefore NO dealer support).
Jeez, what a bunch of whiny b1thches! You guys need to grow a pair and put on some big boy pants.
I'm not going to defend uber-priced cartridges. I will say that if you can make a top-flight MC cartridge for less money, please go ahead. And I won't defend the distributor/dealer system, which certainly contributes to higher prices. But without it we wouldn't have an expansive audio business in the U.S. Why do you guys think that distributors exist? They put up capital (lots of $$$) to have products that you want to buy readily available. Manufacturers and dealers both rely on distribution for most products, and without a robust distribution network there wouldn't be a retail audio business.
As a former audio dealer myself, I am going to defend dealers. Why doesn't one of you brave commenters put your time, money and reputation where your mouth (actually, fingers) is/are and become a dealer for, let's say, twenty audio products that would constitute a complete audio system: turntables, tonearms, cartridges, phono stages, preamps, amps and speakers. Then add (at least) fifty other products that you need to carry in order to complete the sale. Remember, you will need at least one to show and one to go for each product; probably more. You have a nice space to demo your gear, right? And insurance, an advertising/marketing budget and at least one under-compensated employee on salary, right? And if you are lucky, only every fourth or fifth customer will want to return a brand new product (after you have spent hours demoing the product in your demo room and maybe in the customer's home) just because he decided that he didn't like it after all and the CC company says that he can return anything for any reason within the first 30 (or sometimes 60) days. So you now have a new product that you have spent what, ten hours or more trying to sell, that you now have to sell as a dealer demo or maybe a used product at par or a loss.
Do you really believe that you will show what anyone would consider a reasonable profit after the first year? After the second? Ever?
Audio dealers are not angels and not all dealers are for all buyers. But before you criticize you should walk a mile in their shoes. As the guy who has to pay the bills and the salaries of the poor mistreated employees.
Looking at the needle doctor return policy that you posted, i noticed some very interesting verbiage about what is excluded...would seem to me to cover cartridges ( they say 'all other one time use products'...is that a cartridge??) Special orders ( probably most Koetsu's etc) Still risky IMO. Have you, or anybody that you know, actually taken advantage of this policy?
@br3098 Did you actually read my OP. Seems not, because we are talking about cartridges here and not other gear!
Saying these cartridges are 'readily available' is a joke. Tells me that you haven't been cartridge shopping recently, at least for anything above $500-! Plus, the option of hearing the cartridges that I am referring to in the dealers' showroom is basically non existent. So, let's not be calling people a bunch of whiny b1tches if you are clueless about where they are coming from.
Years ago, I was cartridge shopping and wanted to hear a couple of carts. At this time, I was dealing with Galen Carol. He had two of the carts I was considering (used) and offered to send them to me, at my expense. What a great guy!
daveyf, yes I read everyone's comments that were before my response. I didn't quote you specifically because mine was more of a general response. But I feel that my comments apply to your post as well. You are complaining about cartridge availability, demo availability, "price fixing" and dealer pricing.
I believe that my comments are relevant to your post.
Go to a major audio show like Axpona that is full of great analog rigs. Listen to the boutique cartridges and query exhibitors about their cartridge preferences and purchasing sources.
Alternatively, stick with a vetted, boilerplate, high-end MC like the Audio Technica ART7 or ART9. I have the ART7. It is 90% of my Lyra Etna at 15% of the cost. You don’t need to worry about how good the ART-series will sound in your system. Purchase it on-line for as little as you can from 2juki, Thakker, or any bona fide source.
@dgarretson + 100! @daveyf sure look brand new to me! Also the guy i sold it to destroyed it while installing it and even though it wasn’t warranty covered the guy I bought it from treated him very well. When I purchased it he told me I had a full warranty. I also had the option to send it back at 100 hours for a tuneup at no charge. Basically all the same service I would’ve received had I paid three times the amount from an American dealer.
Given your last post, I can see that you have absolutely no clue as to what the high end cartridge consumer is faced with.
@dgarretson
I think this gives one a very generic and basic starting point. I don’t know about you, but I am VERY uncomfortable about dropping thousands of $$ on a cartridge, simply because I heard it at a show once and that was on unfamiliar gear and in an unfamiliar setting. There are numerous variables with these cartridges that need to be considered, and not the least is how it interacts ( has synergy) with your table and arm. What are the odds that the demo you heard at a show is utilizing the same table and arm as you are? Sorry to break your illusion, but I have heard the Lyra Etna and the ART 9 in a familiar system, to my ears, there was really no comparison...the Etna was in a different league all together...as it should be for the price difference.
The Van Den Hul you brought from overseas, did you happen to check on the serial number as to the age and specific model that it was? Not saying that the US dealers aren't applying an enormous markup, just that you may not be getting what you think you are from these grey market vendors. If you are ok with that, so be it.
Storyteller got a bit carried away.. But OK yeah, no one can audition a cartridge. in my 55 years as an audiophile I never worried about it. I BUY the cartridge. I do not whimper over the dilemma of it all.
Given your last post, I can see that you have absolutely no clue as to what the high end cartridge consumer is faced with.
With all due respect, that's BS. I'm a high-end cartridge consumer. I will admit that I have no clue as to what your problem is. High-end audio is not a game for wimps. It requires you to do your homework, deal with people and vendors that you trust then take a leap of faith and make a frigging decision, often times based on less than ideal information.
If you can't won't do that there are lots of "safe" (aka less expensive) options. There are no guarantees in this hobby.
great post..:0(, so that I understand your points.. its no problem for you to blow thousands of your ‘hard earned’ dollars on a POS cartridge, just so long as your friendly local dealer had given it their blessing. If it turned out you blew your money, well no biggie as that’s what real men do in this hobby, am I reading your post right, Lmao.
@daveyf i really don’t understand what your problem is. At this level one would presume you have a good understanding of a) the house sound of different cartridge vendors and b) your own preferences and c) the technical compatibility of your arm.
Reviews and trusted commentators on boards such as these can them let you narrow down to a cartridge family that suits your needs. Only them do you engage the dealer and the conversation should all be about entering at the appropriate level and having good trade up options within the family. Dealers won’t give unbiased advice on comparisons but why would you expect them to? Shows likewise are pretty useless given all the variables in play. Oddly one thing a show can tell you is something about manufacturing tolerances if you closely inspect how the carts are installed (especially azimuth) However, once you’ve settled on a family then developing a close relationship with a dealer or, where appropriate, the importer will pay dividends. If you’re really not sure what you want then either purchase the base models to mess around with, or experiment with used examples until you find the family sound you like.
In my experience I moved from a used Lyra to an Atlas and then an AirTight PC1 as I was looking at the time for something with more body. As my tonearms got better I heard more of the coloration in the AirTight sound and then made a move to Acoustical Systems Palladian based on on line comments from posters whom I trust and have steered me well in the past. I bought this direct from the US distributor without even having seen or heard it but found its sound matched the online comments and reviews to a tee. An advantage of the AS line is that the EU prices equal the US so you don’t need to feel hard done by 🤨
So overall there is no simple answer, cartridge buying is basically a money pit in which the first time you play the cartridge 50% of its value evaporates. If that bothers you then don’t play the game.
Firstly, please don’t think I am looking for advice in this thread. I know exactly what I’m doing in this hobby... you get that way after about forty years in it. What the point of my OP was... and is.: is that I think it is about time someone disclosed the various issues and other problems associated with acquiring a top flite cartridge in the US. OTOH, since many of you seem to have no problem with being completely ripped off in this endeavor, please disregard my thread.
...since many of you seem to have no problem with being completely ripped off in this endeavor...
If you have a better way to offer high-end cartridges to the select few high-end audio buyer, please put your money where your "mouth" is and show us old farts how it should work. Otherwise you're just whining...
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