Jazz for aficionados

"I don't want to get bogged down and go in circles and risk getting into a contentious argument."


So Frogman, why do you always risk it?


This has been discussed/debated here about half a dozen times now and we are very familiar with the account of that night.


Since you always misunderstand, you are not familiar enough with that night.


Moreover, you have often expressed the opinion that this was a period in his career when Coltrane "went too far" and this has been stated with a negative slant.


This was in 63, and he never quit doing what I described, he was still doing it late in his career, even more.


Frogman, since you are so aware of what I'm talking about, why don't you find an example of this on "you tube" and all of us can debate it.


No, that set was not recorded.


That audience had followed "Trane" for all those years he was with Miles, and since he started his own independent career; they were not the least unfamiliar with "Trane", that's why they put down decent bucks to see him, he was not a new item in 63.


I hope I have addressed all your comments. Please find a "you tube" that will exemplify what I'm speaking of, that you claim to be so aware of, in order for "our audience" to make their own independent determinations.


I hate to be so blunt, but put up, or shut up.

O-10, sorry, but I’m not going to go down that road of contentiousness again and for the umpteenth time. It’s too bad that you always seem to need to turn things nasty when faced with simple disagreement. I believe my comments have been perfectly clear and I don’t think it is I who is not understanding. As always I’m willing and would be glad to discuss further with civility. Until then or if not, peace! I respectfully suggest you put the brakes on . Btw, you yourself have posted examples of the Trane’s playing from the period in question as examples of how he "took it too far", so they are already here on this thread.

Frogman, Orpheus - Seems to me this might be another example of that objectivist/subjectivist music dynamic that generates much discussion on this thread...or at least that’s how I interpret it. You two are Yin & Yang, two sides of the same coin.

I’ve NO problem with Orpheus recollection of his and the audience’s reaction to that Coltrane performance OR Frogman’s comments about JC’s work in that period. F’s 7:03PM 6/7 post makes a lot of sense to me and seems to be consistent with and explain what Orpheus witnessed. Even though audiences might have known JC from his work with Miles, that didn’t necessarily prepare them for what he might get into on any given night once he started performing with his own band. McCoy Tyner in that interview talks about how he was always exploring and experimenting, preferring not to do the same thing twice. The audience that O was part of might well have witnessed something they weren’t totally ready for.  Heck, maybe it wasn’t even one of John’s more successful explorations.

I certainly do not understand what is provoking any ill-humor.

Exactly right, Ghosthouse.  The concept of changing/evolving audience tastes and perception is well documented and practically indisputable.  Like you and as I wrote previously, I don't doubt that O-10's account of the audience reaction was accurate; and yes, that probably wasn't even JC's "most successful exploration".  No need for ill-humor.  I would also venture a guess and say that there probably was one jazz-geek in that crowd that, if only privately, said to himself:  "That was awesome!".....there always is.  

...in the meantime.....

Stan Getz and John Coltrane, together, live 1960.....
https://youtu.be/beCGdmrP8Xc