Jazz for aficionados

****I find it quite difficult to believe there can be any relationship between jazz and classical; other than they're both genres of music****

O-10, kindly explain where, then, the concepts of harmony used in jazz came from if not the European Classical music tradition. African music has practically no tradition of complex harmony to speak of; it's contribution to jazz is in the realm of rhythm.

****A person cannot make a 'contribution' to Jazz, with something that you cannot define as Jazz.****

We are talking about what led to the birth of what would be one known as jazz; and, as such, the contribution of the European classical tradition to jazz is huge.

****But I did not 'hear' the boogie woogie. ****

Jeremy Denk heard it. I heard it; loud and clear. Once again, how does the fact that a person can't hear it invalidate the fact that many others can? What is the most likely scenario: that the many that can are delusional; or, that the one that can't, simply....well....can't?

Gentlemen, I have mentioned a few times now that I feel that this thread is at a crossroad; I had hoped, as I also said, that it would be more of a milestone. Well, it is a crossroad for me.

O-10, you are to be commended for starting this thread. It has often been enjoyable to share favorite recordings and discuss and share points of view. My participation has been an attempt to offer a certain perspective on the subjects being discussed that is, not only a personal and a musician's perspective, but one shared and espoused by practically all individuals who write about, teach, and perform the music itself. Unfortunately, the constant resistance to these points of view and insistence on opposing points of view that have no basis in the reality of all that comprises musicology strikes me as not only arrogant, but an exercise in simple petulance; particularly when all of it can be easily researched and better understood. Instead, personal "opinions" become the end-all without a healthy amount of questioning of the obvious: how can someone who has not studied and lived music, so easily, and with such a sense of authority, dismiss the opinions of those who have? Subjectivity may apply to liking or not liking a particular music or performance, but it does not apply to musicological or pedagogical considerations.

Why does it matter? Because music matters and deserves more respect via inquisitiveness and a higher level of interest in learning about it; or, at the very least, more open-mindedness.

It is for these reasons that I feel my participation has run its course and I will not be posting any longer; I don't see the point. Not that I should be so presumptuous to think that anyone should care wether I post or not; but, rather than disappear from the thread, I felt I owed all the participants an explanation. Sharing favorite recordings is fantastic; interesting and a great opportunity to add good music to one's collection. However, when things veer into the area of commentary, the commentary too often does not sustain the credibility and standards that I feel the music deserves.

I am sure we will cross paths again on some other thread and I wish everyone good listening.

{A person cannot make a 'contribution' to Jazz, with something that you cannot define as Jazz.}

****We are talking about what led to the birth of what would be one known as jazz; and, as such, the contribution of the European classical tradition to jazz is huge.****

You seem to write a lot better than you can comprehend. I was responding to O-10's statements about how 'contributions' have changed the music beyond recognition. Today! Current music scene! Was not talking about the origin of the music.

[But I did not 'hear' the boogie woogie.]

***Jeremy Denk heard it. I heard it; loud and clear. Once again, how does the fact that a person can't hear it invalidate the fact that many others can? What is the most likely scenario: that the many that can are delusional; or, that the one that can't, simply....well....can't?***

I said I could not hear it. How did you jump to the conclusion that I thought that Invalidates any other person's opinion or ability? You have toooo much 'audiophile' in you.
You always jump to conclusions to satisfy your preconceived notions of other people. Ask 1000 people if they can hear boogie woogie, how many would answer, "yes, I can hear it"? Think about it. It's a Beethoven Sonata!!

You need to read the OP's original post. The purpose / intent of the thread.

Cheers

I'm glad you will stop posting on this thread, Frogman.
It was painful to see you butting you head against willful
and invincible ignorance.
May God Bless you during this Easter Season and beyond, you are a example of courage to all.

Frogman, I wish that you reconsider your decision. Try not to take it so serious, lots of stuff that is said here is actually 'lost in translation', because of a form of this forum. Things are never written in 'real time', and there is a constant delay, plus, there is always a chance that 'tone'of some post could be missunderstood.On the other side, people from different sides of the world, 'talking' to each other, despite all above mentioned obstacles, about things that they love, that is almost a small wonder. Few times I thought how nice it would be to see you guys, all siting at the same table. I dont know nothing personaly about any of you, but I am certain that you would enjoy each others company 'in flesh'.So, please, once more, dont take it so hard. I am sure that the 'discussion' has its low points, but many more great ones.