A refreshing viewpoint...Thanks!
3 things I learned from using MANY interconnect cables
At last, I am posting here for the first time! I got so much help from this forum and always felt a bit guilty about not contributing.
Over the past several years, I have used the following interconnect cables: Audioquest Golden Gate, Audioquest Columbia, Audioquest Sky, Monster Interlink 300 MkIII, Harmonic Technology Pro Silway (I have used both Mk I and Mk II), Silnote Morpheus, Anticables (the original version), Tara Labs RSC, Nordost Heimdall, Straightwire Crescendo, and Chord Anthem. They were all purchased used and I always had 2 or more pairs to compare at a given time although I didn’t have these cables all at once. Through the journey, I learned the following:
1. The price was NOT indicative of the sound quality unless you go very cheap (less than $100). I think this point is self-explanatory so I am not adding any elaboration.
2. Disconnecting and re-connecting the cables had a very positive impact on sound quality, which will affect any AB comparison. If you are comparing two pairs of cables that had comparable sound quality, the new cables will sound better because the connection would be fresh.
3. In my experience, the cables were NOT system dependent. This might raise some eye brows as it goes against the commonly held belief so I am going to explain a bit here.
All I am saying is that I have never seen a case where my preference order of two sets of interconnect cables got reversed when tested on two or more components (e.g. cable A was better than cable B on amp X but cable B was better on amp Y, etc). With any AB comparison I ever did, the better cable always won no matter what component I was testing them on.
Oh in case someone is curious, the best pair of interconnect cables I have ever used was Chord Anthem. It had a wider frequency range and a more natural tonality than others. And I would rather not add the qualification "but it was the best only in my system" because of the 3rd point I made above. Cheers!
Over the past several years, I have used the following interconnect cables: Audioquest Golden Gate, Audioquest Columbia, Audioquest Sky, Monster Interlink 300 MkIII, Harmonic Technology Pro Silway (I have used both Mk I and Mk II), Silnote Morpheus, Anticables (the original version), Tara Labs RSC, Nordost Heimdall, Straightwire Crescendo, and Chord Anthem. They were all purchased used and I always had 2 or more pairs to compare at a given time although I didn’t have these cables all at once. Through the journey, I learned the following:
1. The price was NOT indicative of the sound quality unless you go very cheap (less than $100). I think this point is self-explanatory so I am not adding any elaboration.
2. Disconnecting and re-connecting the cables had a very positive impact on sound quality, which will affect any AB comparison. If you are comparing two pairs of cables that had comparable sound quality, the new cables will sound better because the connection would be fresh.
3. In my experience, the cables were NOT system dependent. This might raise some eye brows as it goes against the commonly held belief so I am going to explain a bit here.
All I am saying is that I have never seen a case where my preference order of two sets of interconnect cables got reversed when tested on two or more components (e.g. cable A was better than cable B on amp X but cable B was better on amp Y, etc). With any AB comparison I ever did, the better cable always won no matter what component I was testing them on.
Oh in case someone is curious, the best pair of interconnect cables I have ever used was Chord Anthem. It had a wider frequency range and a more natural tonality than others. And I would rather not add the qualification "but it was the best only in my system" because of the 3rd point I made above. Cheers!
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Choice of cable is dependent on system and personal taste. You have had only limited experience. You may contact Dave of Zenwave to ask for free trial of his excellent D4 IC cable. https://zenwaveaudio.com/contact-us/ It will blow away Chord Anthem. Thomas |
Three things I have learned reading threads about wires on audiophile forums.... #1 People really believe what they discovered that works in their system, means something for all other possible systems. #2 Some readers believe anything, acting like deer in the headlights of a car speeding toward them....At least they write that way.. (Do not know if they follow through) #3 and a perennial favorite.. Some folks cannot resist, no matter what, naming their OWN favorite be all end all cable that is infinitely better than the cable expounded on by the op of the thread. Please consider these words as 'sarcasm, or fun or a joke', or to be ignored by the serious folks among us. |
jcder sez: ""I would be interested in an overall top five list of cables, and a
separate top five list of cost-effective cables. Thank you in advance
for your efforts.
"" Sadly there is no real top five either way, there may be a most purchased by the most people who KEPT those cables... (vs owning then selling them for the next one they hope will do the job.) But since every system is different, of different bits, different speakers, different rooms and different personal needs of the listener... There can be no universal solution. If anyone asks me, I say stick to the major brands for the least headaches. KImber, Cardas, AudioQuest. |
Sometimes, the pseudo-science on these forums is astounding ... "It had a wider frequency range..." Really? What exactly do you mean by this? Did you measure it using appropriate technology? Is a wider(r) frequency range actually a good thing? See: http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/amplifiers/75-amp-tests/147-frequency-response.html |
To the OP’s three points: 1. Unfortunately, doesn’t hold true in my system, though I overall prefer one of two of equal price for most recordings. In other words, two most expensive were best 2. Doesn’t hold true if your connectors are clean. Also, cables, especially more complicated ones, need some time, which varies, to settle, so they sound slightly worse right after re connection. 3. To simplify, holds true in my system, but the difference depends on where you put them in the chain. |
I'm with @geoffkait on this one, a variable that should be discussed. |
@ rnabokov Sometimes, the pseudo-science on these forums is astounding ... I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion just yet. Find below a quote from a comment made here by Bob Smith... https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-schroeder-method-interconnect-placement/ And the most relevant part is below ( though reading the whole comment would help give you a better idea about the Schroeder Method, a exciting new idea in cable configurations that has many extremely happy users here on Audiogon....see that below.... https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/doug-schroeder-method-double-ic ).....
What is being talked about is the cable generated and cable specific noise that occurs in cables, and which can be reduced by simply expanding the bandwidth of the cable. And please note that it was this particular issue that pushed tele-communication companies to adopt fibre-optic networks ( the old wire networks were producing so much cable generated reflection that it was obscuring signal when under heavy load). And btw it is this extended band-width that seems to the basis of the success of the Shroeder Method style cable ( and shameless plug...our own cables which have a very unusually broad bandwidth ) Hope I expressed that correctly/clearly. |
johnson0134, You are of course absolutely right. So right in fact that I would think anyone who actually bothers to do what you've done would have to agree. Most of the people who disagree turn out to not have spent much time doing the work to know what they are talking about. The remaining doubters pretty much all fall into the category of haven't yet figured out how to evaluate the one thing being evaluated so that instead of looking for the best component they are looking for the best band-aid. Only they haven't figured that out yet. Well there is one more category, but it is thank God a category of one. Anyway the connection observation is important enough I've mentioned it to people many times. Especially when comparing something like a fuse its important to first remove the original, clean everything, and reinstall BEFORE attempting to compare with anything else. Another thing I thought you might mention, though not surprised you missed it as its fairly subtle. Simply handling a cable, wiggling it around connecting and disconnecting, is enough to affect the sound. Disconnect a cable, wiggle it real good, connect it back up again. Listen as it takes a few minutes for the sound to settle back in. Its actually kind of funny people thinking cables are system dependent. Like the laws of the universe aren't really laws, they're a little different every where you go. Right. Good one. Nice observation. You are on the right track. Want to hear something really good, try any wire with Synergistic Research on it. |
IMHO, manufacturers claim the holy grail of neutral sound when, in fact, many have a house sound. I can tell a Nordost cable from a Shunyata, Audioquest or Audience. (Nordost will be faster but not as full bodied as the others--and the others have differences as well). On the other hand, companies like Stealth make cables with different conductor material, each having a different sound. Thus the only way to find out which cable sounds best to you is to try it in your system. |
gpgr4blu"manufacturers claim the holy grail of neutral sound when, in fact, many have a house sound." Every component within a Music Reproduction System has an individual, quantifiable, distinct sound, characteristic, and identity there is no such thing as any component being completely neutral, accurate, and free from distortion. |
@clearthink: Yes, and so do each and every specific instrument that the musicians play and so do their individual choices of "stuff" they use to enhance their instrument to get the "sound" they want. As the writer of "The Buddy Holly Story" film had the actor who played Buddy say, "Because he doesn't know what it is, and I can't tell him. That's why. How's he going to produce what I hear? It starts with me. Your complex system here-Heck, it works fine for you guys. But we're a little band, three pieces. I write the songs. There's no formal arrangement. We'll make a sound together, and when it feels good, we put it on a tape. Now, if your producer could do that, then you'd owe him $75,000, not me. Is that right?" Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/movie_script.php?movie=buddy-holly-story-the So, what you are saying is that a person needs to set up a system in his or her ROOM and listen and make changes until they get the "sound" they like. "Sounds" about right to me. And sorry, I still don't buy the cable thing, but whatever turns you on is fine with me. Cheers! |
Clearthink Agreed. All components have their own sound. Sometimes the manufacturer of a component claims its component provides neutral sound, others do not. My point was that cables too have their own sound and should be utilized to work with the system that one has to reach the result that one desires |
Its actually kind of funny people thinking cables are system dependent. Like the laws of the universe aren’t really laws, they’re a little different every where you go. Laws of the universe are created by one designer. Audio components are manufactured by many designers: - who partner with other designers of gear at audio shows that bring out the best in their product. Also, these designers of audio components: - hear differently. - use different parts in the component build. - use different speakers when auditioning. - have different power delivery in their shops. - have different listening rooms. - etc, etc. Capacitors with the same values from different manufacturers cause sound to vary. Different materials are used. Same with cables. What’s really weird is engineers who think that all laws of the universe are known. Or that the known ones are fully understood. |
@jtcf "do you mean if you swap ic A between various components in your system that it always sounds the same?For instance ic A between Dac and pre sounds exactly the same as between pre and amp?Just curious:)I always have a preference as to where the cable sounds best. " No that's not what I meant and I don't have a lot of experience with putting in the same pair of cables at different points in my system as I usually have a DAC directly connected to a power amp. What I meant was that when I had two different amps and two different pairs of IC cables, one pair sounded better than the other on BOTH amps, and it has been always the case. That's ALL I am saying. |
@jayctoy Yup I know. And I don't mind people disagreeing with me :-) And maybe my understanding of the definition of "system dependent" is different from that of others and maybe even wrong. I am just trying to report my observations in case they are helpful. Proving that I am right doesn't...interest me much. |
@elizabeth The personal observations other members posted here meant something to me and helped me more than any professional review I've read. That's why I shared mine here. Just to contribute a little after many years of getting free help from other members. I am totally fine with people disagreeing with me or even finding no value in a post like this as I believe (and hope) this can be helpful to some people. |
@inna About more expensive cables being better than others IN GENERAL, I am actually open to that possibility. I was only saying the price wasn't a reliable indicator of sound quality with the cables I have personally used. I am only reporting my observations and experiences. Sorry if I sounded like I was trying to make a general statement. About #2, I am actually pretty confident that the idea (=disconnecting and freshly connecting cables) will help in many other systems. I just made fresh connections of ALL of my cables (IC, speaker, power cords, etc) and the improvement I am hearing is VERY noticeable. And I don't believe the tips of all my cables are dirty or faulty. The idea really doesn't cost anything so one might as well try it and see what happens. |
Arrows are traditionally used. Lettering doesn’t mean anything. If there aren’t any arrows then you have to try both ways. From what I gather relatively few cable manufacturers control their cables for directionality, which requires them to keep track of the direction of the cable during the entire production. |
@millercarbon "Simply handling a cable, wiggling it around connecting and disconnecting, is enough to affect the sound" - That’s interesting and I would love to try it. But I don’t know how easy it would be to separate these two different actions (re-connecting vs wiggling). Honestly I would not have paid much attention to such a proposal ten+ years ago when I used to believe everything in audio forums was kind of fairy tales. But many of them turned out to be true in my experience; except the 16 bit vs 24 bit difference - I was never able to pass a blind test even though I thought I was hearing a difference when I wasn’t "blinded". "Want to hear something really good, try any wire with Synergistic Research on it." - Funny you mentioned it because I literally JUST got a power cord from SR, my first time using their product. A wonderful improvement it brought about! |
I think I should add some clarification to point #3. If "system dependent" means someone might prefer cable A while another might prefer cable B, then yes, I agree that cables are system dependent, wholeheartedly. What I meant in the original post was simply that there was no preference order change between two pairs of cables ever happening to me, given that my taste in sound remains constant. That's all I was saying. |
@roxy54 @soix @ghosthouse @lancelock @shkong78 Thanks for the kind words and suggestions. It was my first time making a post here and didn't know the discussion thread would get active this quickly :-( I honestly don't think I can keep up with all these new comments and respond to them when I am summoned. So I just wanted to thank you guys before I disappear for a while. One final comment: I don't think the purpose of a forum like this is to compete against each other on proving who's right. I believe it's rather finding a solution by working TOGETHER so we can accomplish our common goal - enjoy the music in excellent sound. Take care! Tschüss! 안녕히 계세요! |