I have not been a member for a very long time, and joined Agon to discuss audio with others in my hobby. Seems to me that almost every post devolves into a hijacked negative argument between a few members that seem to think it's their platform to preach their opinions to any who would listen, and any dissent to what they have to say is met with ridicule/insults, and just downright rudeness.
There will always be differences in opinion, BUT, we can be civilized in how we disagree.
There is already too much negativity in the world. Is it not possible to insulate that from our hobby in this forum, or is this what we have become? Hiding behind our keyboards and not having the courtesy to treat our fellow audio lovers with decency, open-mindedness, and RESPECT !
Interjecting or trying to infuse a bit of humor isn’t a bad thing at all. Anything however can become monotonous and eventually disparaging if it becomes chronic, inane, or mindless.
Texture. Its how much or how little we reveal ourselves to others that adds depth and feeling to the discourse at hand.
I could not agree more. I think a good bit of levity is good for the soul, and the "texture" of what we type should (perhaps) tell a little about ourselves, as individuals, so as to let the reader have a bit of a grasp on our personality. Just my thoughts, for whatever they're worth :)
FYI revealing and or supporting your words with your own work history can be as quickly or capriciously dismissed as was the time it took you to type it... by some. Similarly, current personal events can be as reflectively oneroused by a few.
as was said , Thicker skins should be worn in toxic environments as we search for precious stones.
I have had posts removed, and been censured by our moderators, presumably at the behest of other members that found my posting distasteful and offensive. And, though I have never belittled anyone, I have been both course and have been direct in asking for clarification when posts that I have read make absolutely no sense.
My, somewhat different, opinion is that the damage to this site is not done by those lacking decorum - and I see the self serving nature of that statement - but by all of the horribly bad advice, freely given, by those with neither the experience, nor the technical background to offer constructive input on some of the topics in play here.
One thing that would help us all to understand the perspective of each individual posting here would be if everyone would post pics and descriptions of their system(s) in the virtual systems here on A’Gon.
Randy-11, I think that the courses required would be commensurate with the opinion that is given.
If one says that a certain speaker sounds thick, then that is an opinion that only requires two ears.
If one says that a speaker sounds thick because the box is made of solid maple with dovetail joints, I would expect that person to have a background in material science or experience in speaker design and the measurement techniques applied to loudspeakers and be able to look at aberrations in the measured impedance curve of the speaker indicating box resonances and perhaps measuring the vibrational characteristic of the box as well. Otherwise the conclusion is not only idle speculation. It is idly speculating on the hard work - often the life work - of the designer.
Likewise if you think a cartridge sounds bright, I’m down with that opinion. If you ascribe that brightness to the ruby cantilever in the cartridge you should be able to back that up. Perhaps every cartridge that you have heard with a ruby cantilever sounds bright. That still might not mean that it is, in fact, the ruby cantilever that causes the speaker to be bright. If you make that assertion you should have some technical understanding of the dynamics of cantilever design.
What I'm saying is, if you ascribe something to a specific technology, or refer to something as a "breakthrough" it would help to have a grasp of that technology from a technical standpoint. Otherwise it is simply parroting the manufacturer's claims.
But this stuff is thrown around all of the time. As an example, I don’t have much experience with digital hardware, having only had ten, or so, pieces in my own system. Hence you won’t find me commenting on digital hardware, except perhaps to say that I enjoy my Rega Planet. I am, frankly, unqualified, having neither the depth of experience to make recommendations on specific models, nor the technical wherewithal to be able to engage in technical discussions of digital hardware. I don’t think that stops many here.
@hifiman5 +1!!! I said this same thing before, seeing someones system would give some reference to the opinions posted. Its a good start to make this forum a bit more user-friendly.
Blindjim....*VBS* If it wasn't for my sense of humour, Life (...what a Concept...*phew*...) as I've experienced It overall for the past 66 orbits, may not have gone on as long as it has....;)
I don't aircraft tumbling into the weeds next door, granted. But, when all is said/done....Exciting, wasn't it? *G* Being lucky, the pilot and YOU...frosting on the cake....and it took some of the edge off the balance of a dismal day...*nudge*G*
"Do we Always have to speak of 'things Audio' Constantly?"
Only if we devolve into 'audio as religion'....acolytes attending altars arranged accurately as absolutely attainable....
The unwashed NOT INVITED....Philistines....
Do Not Laugh. SILENCE....until the cartridge....descends.....
...sounds a little dismal...gadget worship, applied to cars and other of such...
The pursuit of ones' goals and desires, OK. You have yours, I have mine, he/she/'they' have...well, theirs....*G*
...but if we can't laugh at it, find something amusing in the abstract about the Big Stuff or the 'fiddly bits', share that to some degree...
...it's gotten too dour IMHO.... and color me gone. ;)
One thing that would help us all to understand the perspective of each individual posting here would be if everyone would post pics and descriptions of their system(s) in the virtual systems here on A’Gon.
I agree. You never know when you might be reading about cable advice from someone who listens through.......a Walkman.
Viridian > I have had posts removed, and been censured by our moderators, presumably at the behest of other members
Blindjim > I don’t know exactly how to ask a moderator to delete a members post. In fact I had to ask another member to contact Admin for me a good while back on another matter as I could not navigate the page well enough.
I do know for a fact, moderators will act entirely on their own volition to delete posts or threads without any feedback or request from members.
Everything we do has consequences. Some good, some not good. If I felt I needed to beat a drum for whatever reason and my thoughts were being erased, I’d reconsider how I presented them. But that’s just me.
As for the qualifications to share experiences and opinions, Randy just said it pretty well. I’d only add it takes no scholarly education to provide either one or at any time, or for any subject.
I’d not forget, this is a social forum, not a clinical project or strategic think tank and as such, the bar for membership is low.
Setting unrealistic expectations upon those who wish to be helpful will very likely amount to increased internal aggravation and irritation.
The bar for social decorum within forums is lowered by whomever believes it is OK or even necessary to act discordantly, disrespectfully or inconsiderately among their fellows. Again, that’s just my two cents.
Saying what I mean, meaning what I say, and not saying it mean, usually directs traffic down a smoother broader highway.
= = = = = = = = =
Asvjerry > "Do we Always have to speak of 'things Audio' Constantly?"
Blindjim > I hope not. = = = = = = = = = = =
When folks talk about baseball, no one expects them to have been a former MLB batting champion, major league ball club Manageer, pitching coach, or professional player.
With cars people talk about which is best, better, or worse without the need for any qualifications what so ever.
Cooking, model ship building, art, jewelry, cock roach racing, or herding cats takes no higher education to become an interest or devotion. It takes but a pot, some paint, or more than six cats. Yeah, it’s a small herd, but ya gotta start small with cat herds. Trust me.
IME its been proven time and again, people will always reveal themselves. At some point. In due course. Often it comes quite regularly with snipets of personal insights, historical inferences and professed biases and preferences. One only has to pay attention to see how ernest, sincere, or maybe ‘qualified’ someone is on any given subject.
Beyond all the White paper technical data is the application of the design or implementation of the theory. On these accounts many are qualified to respond. In fact, but a few are indeed able to account for particular combinations of equipment as their experiences have demonstrated. No designer, technician,dealer, distributor, or service agent regardless their credentials could ever supply commensurate useful information.
Sometimes to get out of a hole, a person needs someone who has been in that same hole before and found their way out.
It don’t take a geologist to know the lay of the land. Merely walking around it a good bit will suffice.
blindjim > Started feeding 1 feral cat. Now I have 10. Food and Vet bills are cutting into my audio funds. I think I can register the Cat herd in Chicago; +3
Talking about baseball is very different than giving advice on what audio gear to spend ones hard earned money on. That would be more akin to suggesting to a player which bat to use.
Fortunately, I only have one cat, and she’s not feral......yet.
Talking
about baseball is very different than giving advice on what audio gear
to spend ones hard earned money on. That would be more akin to
suggesting to a player which bat to use.
I think that's a faulty analogy. For the most part, this forum swaps experiences and opinions among fellow audiophiles, not engineers and manufacturers. This is a hobbyist's group. Yes, there are professionals who participate here, just as a baseball coach might be a guest on talk radio. But I don't think the pros come to Audiogon for guidance on their designs.
It's up to each reader to evaluate the opinions of the contributors here. Everyone gets to make up his own mind, and that's why everyone here deserves respect. If there are those you can't respect, it's best to just ignore them.
Hi, why did you start this in the "Tech Forum" there's not one iota of tech info being talked about, it's over ridding good tech talk, do us a favour and ask the mods to move it to "Misc Audio".
@georgehifi I just picked what I thought was the least specific forum. Didn't notice Misc Audio. I have no problem having it moved, if it is annoying to some, but I don't know how. Can you advise me on the way to have the mods change it's location? Please keep in mind that I have not been a long time member, and I am still experiencing a bit of a learning curve within the navigation of Agon.
Hi
crazyeddy, all you do is hover your mouse at the bottom right corner of your last post, and a report this will pop up, click on it and let them know your the OP (original poster) and you wish to have the whole thread moved to "Misc Audio"
@georgehifi Huh, well that was easy enough !! It's in their hands now, so lets see what happens now. Geez, and I thought I would not learn anything new today !! LOL
@georgehifi Well, it is what it is, so to speak. Nothing wrong with that. Some feathers are easier to "ruffle" than others. LOL Luckily for me, I have thick alligator skin!! All my feathers were plucked many brain cells ago!! Perhaps a bit of a contradiction to my post, but I'm coming at this today with my typically absurd sense of humour completely intact. I try to take myself even less seriously than everybody else does. (Mostly)
I see this is still coming up in "Tech" as opposed to "Misc". I guess it takes a day or two?
If a person chooses to buy a this or a that, it is their decision. No one else’.
I see input from others in those threads which ask for which this or where to from here, as spitballing for ideas outside of their own. Nothing more.
What someone does with those ideas is up to them. Who ever is paying the cost to be the boss is the ultimate trigger puller.
It used to amuse me how a thread would ask for options while including a couple of their own picks, and after all was sid and done, regardless of the outside feedbac,, the OP would opt for their own selections or something no one even mentioned! On the surface making the whole aspiration a waste of time essentially. But then firing a wad of dead presidents at some piece takes what it takes to decide. Usually its time.
Ready! Get set! Uh, well, er, go? It bes that way sometimes. For me anyhow. I’m a planner. Thinker aheader. I like to have an outline in place so at least I think I know where I’m headed.
As much as some here will profusely arbitrate and argue for their side of the coin, some will for all intents and purposes actually ‘demand’ (in essence) a certain item be chosen by the inquisitive poster. That is sheer nonsense and revelatory of a fairly unstable sort.
Being careful to ensure if I have a critter in the fight, or a dog in the hunt, is extremely grounding. Regularly, I do not.
As for keeping a list of current inventory abailable on this site, well, what if you are in the middle of replacing everything? Turning the sod completely over towards a new outfit? Your rig would look as scarce as hens teeth. Would or could it then, be seen as a lack of credentials?
As well, what if it has not been updated regularly? What too, if it is indeed, a ‘virtual’ system, and simply does not exist? What then? Are you a Audio deity, or merely deceitful? Or did you take the inference of virtual system verbatim? Posting what you desired or imagined.
Faith. Grain o salt. Supposition. Trust. Suspicion. All are in play now and then. The quickest way to dispel the false from the factual, is again, contacting the person and developing a dialogue. If I want to know more about what, or why someone says something, merely ask them. Publicly or via PM>
I heard a fella say once many years ago, during a visit to his shrink, “I’m finally able to let other people, be other people. ”
This is no small task. However, it does pay huge dividends, every time I can.
Several great points made on this thread. We are here to help each other with advice and comments on audio. If someone posts a derogatory comment about a member, just pull the post. If the same member makes a habbit of it, banish them from the community altogether.
The term, social media, is a misnomer. These days it is actually anti-social media. Just because you have anonymity is no reason to be rude. A good rule of thumb is to never type anything that you wouldn't have the courage to say face to face. Music and listening to music is always subjective. Always grey. Never black & white.
Phillyb-you are a looney left snowflake that brings politics into everything. You should think about getting more crayons or another soothing dog to get you thru life.
the problem with any listening in a sighted test is confirmation bias
that is why it is not allowed in all the medicines we use
- it sounds to me like the OP just wants a 'safe space' for himself to make posts that will not be contradicted by others who have a background in electronics, digital electronics, biology, psychology or acoustics
My wisdom is quite simple: never get personal (only technical), never argue opinions (quote only facts) and never assume that absence of an experience is equal to the absence of a fact. Oh, and, above all, live happily without being affected by personality problems other people exibit during every type of human gathering. As for deleted threads, rephrase and repost the topic but never expect people understand your intention just because you think it's good.
the problem with any listening in a sighted test is confirmation bias
That's simply silly. For example, there are many instances where the listener in a sighted test expected no improvement at all, or expected the result to be a detriment to sound quality, and yet the result was an apparent improvement. Clearly, that kind of result can't be dismissed with a wave of the hand and the tired old claim of "confirmation bias."
At the risk of sounding negative, to suggest that rude and incendiary comments on this site have anything to do with who is in the White House is ridiculous. Bad behavior has zero to do with politics. The shallow and imperious attitudes that reveal themselves in the forums are simply reflections of current human behavior in general: in ticket lines, on the highways, over the phone, in the grocery store, in the airport. The veil of the internet affords offenders an additional layer of protection and anonymity (and cowardice) to hide behind. As a parent and grandparent what is clear to me is that three essential values we always stressed with our kids are no longer priorities to parents: accountability, respect, and personal awareness. Anything goes and it’s all about me is the pervasive sentiment these days.
Dontcha realize that audiophile world is a nutshell full of propaganda and brainwash. When many folks here got used to brainwash and naive audiophile propaganda, they sometimes get offended when truth is spoken and that's normal, bcoz realizing foolishness or even more resisting learning is sometimes frustrating. After all, factually, it's made the way that smart will bully foolish and foolish may get sad here in Audiogon.
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