Well Elizabeth, I cannot disagree with your purchase suggestions. So, unless you are reluctant to find out what may be revealed by any measurement device, why not buy one and let us know what you find?
Discovering I may have the cleanest AC power in USA
PS Audio Noise Harvesters are on sale. $50 each.. So naturally I had to buy a pair. 36 hours later in my home.Well I clean the prongs, Caig Gold them, and plug them in.
Nothing.
Nothing.
I am wondering broken? DOA?
I move them to other outlets not on my stereo in the kitchen, in the bathroom (the bathroom has a air cleaner plugged in the same outlet, motor running). OK a single blink.
I remember the dimmer thing. Plug the Noise Harvesters into the stereo again.. and turn on the only dimmer in the place (in the bedroom, on a different circuit) KABLAM!!! Now they are blinking pretty regular. OK they are NOT broken.They also blink when I put them on an Adcom AC box also on different circuit than stereo. Both the Cable internet box and the WiFi box are on it. And yes they blink every minute or so.I checked the Furman REF 20 outlets, no blink. The direct to the amp.. no blink.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So I apparently have just naturally the cleanest AC line in America? (For my stereo equipment.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Part of it may be the fact I packed the duplex enclosure 20 amp single line I use for the stereo with small quartz crystals coated with Automotive dielectric grease, in small baggies, the duplex is also the Furutech GTX NCF type, and the wall plugs are also filled with the loose small quartz crystals, plus some flattened baggies of the crystals wrapped around the outside shell of the plugs at the wall
Good thing I only ordered two of the Noise Harvesters. More are not needed. (and I actually do not even need the two. but that is OK. I can keep them as a sentinel, to know if I ever get noise on the lines.
So I do not know if my home made anti noise crystals work magic? (along with the Furutech NCF which is basically a refined version of my own crystals) or if I really do have some of the cleanest AC around. (PS I live in a 90 unit apartment building, folks above below, around me. Things like my frig I have several ferrite cores with the AC zipcord wire wrapped in and around them, ditto air cleaners, lamps..
Nothing.
Nothing.
I am wondering broken? DOA?
I move them to other outlets not on my stereo in the kitchen, in the bathroom (the bathroom has a air cleaner plugged in the same outlet, motor running). OK a single blink.
I remember the dimmer thing. Plug the Noise Harvesters into the stereo again.. and turn on the only dimmer in the place (in the bedroom, on a different circuit) KABLAM!!! Now they are blinking pretty regular. OK they are NOT broken.They also blink when I put them on an Adcom AC box also on different circuit than stereo. Both the Cable internet box and the WiFi box are on it. And yes they blink every minute or so.I checked the Furman REF 20 outlets, no blink. The direct to the amp.. no blink.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
So I apparently have just naturally the cleanest AC line in America? (For my stereo equipment.)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Part of it may be the fact I packed the duplex enclosure 20 amp single line I use for the stereo with small quartz crystals coated with Automotive dielectric grease, in small baggies, the duplex is also the Furutech GTX NCF type, and the wall plugs are also filled with the loose small quartz crystals, plus some flattened baggies of the crystals wrapped around the outside shell of the plugs at the wall
Good thing I only ordered two of the Noise Harvesters. More are not needed. (and I actually do not even need the two. but that is OK. I can keep them as a sentinel, to know if I ever get noise on the lines.
So I do not know if my home made anti noise crystals work magic? (along with the Furutech NCF which is basically a refined version of my own crystals) or if I really do have some of the cleanest AC around. (PS I live in a 90 unit apartment building, folks above below, around me. Things like my frig I have several ferrite cores with the AC zipcord wire wrapped in and around them, ditto air cleaners, lamps..
80 responses Add your response
Couple of things: Furman devices with SMP naturally filter starting at about 3 kHz. This is because the surge protector is effectively a low pass filter. This behavior is what makes series mode surge suppressors superior. It is nearly impossible for a high slew rate surge to slip through. Unlike all parallel mode / disposable units. This also means they don't current limit in the 60 Hz range. An ideal situation for amps. Further, LiFT adds some active noise cancelling which to my ears clearly works. I also like to keep an eye on the voltage, it is how I discovered my building was running 130V and got them to readjust the city’s load balancing. :) Seriously. Best, E |
erik_squires I also like to keep an eye on the voltage, it is how I discovered my building was running 130VIt absolutely pays to monitor voltage. My problems were the opposite: Low voltage, sometimes down to 93VAC. I battled the electric utility for years ... although to its credit it has improved enormously over the last 7 or 8 years. |
Elizabeth, I am in no way trying to tell you what to do. I was merely providing information from my own experience. It was you after all who began this thread regarding clean power. Respectfully, you are the one who criticized my choice in a power level meter and suggested alternative devices. That is fine. This forum is to inform. My curiosity has long been satisfied regarding my own power needs. I was merely hoping i might be of some modest help to others. I apologize if my tone offended in any way. |
I'm always amazed at how a tread can take a turn from the original statement or question . The HF meter is a good tool , but a better one would be an oscilloscope where you can see the interference on the AC sign wave . As for the PS Audio noise harvesters , don't look just listen . I noticed a minor improvement with 2 and a larger one with 5 all on the stereo systems circuit . |
I bought five more. So with seven, I will see how it goes...Immediate impression is the background black is 'blacker'..Noticed watching PBS TV "Arthur" cartoon the smooth blobs of color are totally free of grain, perfectly smooth. Enough to note it.Treble seems a tiny bit sweeter in stereo. Little more detail in general. Two on amp line. three on Furman (One on high power, used for preamps, one at Plasma TV one at Marantz SA-10) , one on PS Audio P-600, and one at powercord to Furman.During normal stereo operation, only the one on PS Audio P-600 where five disc CD changer is blinking at all.Plasma TV turned on makes the two on Furman blink like crazy. IPlasma off no blinking) Dimmer in bedroom at half on only makes the amp line pair blink a little. I am of the opinion that even with no blinking, the Noise Harvesters may be doing something... |
An oscilloscope is the only way to go. A unit with a 100 MHz bandwidth is suitable and very affordable if you buy a used one but more bandwidth is better. You do need two channels since you have to do a differential measurement and you will need two identical test probes with at least 50% more bandwidth than the scope has. The catch is, you have to eliminate the 60 Hertz voltage or you won't see anything else. Some scopes have high pass filters, but most do not. What you need is a good filter that kills everything below 50KHz to 100 KHz. Now that I think about it, at work we do a lot of business with several transformer companies, I'll see if any of them have a test isolation transformer for this sort of thing. If so, I will post the part number here, they should not be too expensive. For those of you with access to a scope, you can be amazed and have sleepless nights when you see what is coming down your line! |
elizabeth I have thought about a few more , so your going to 7 and experience with them is inspiring me to add a couple more . Have you tried listening to a passage over and over again by adding one at a time to hear the improvements ? I have 1 in the amp outlet , 2 in the outlet just before the amp and 2 more on my 10 gauge wired outlet strip before the outlet with 2 . My isolation transformer is connected to the last box in the circuit ( connected by using Cardas in-wall 10 gauge cable hard wired to the wall box and connected with a Furutech IEC connector ) with the amp being the next to last outlet on the circuit , a AudioQuest NGR outlet . Some day maybe a dedicated circuit . |
I actually removed them and started over. 7 were too many, and the sound was a bit treble happy. I also decided to bond them to the duplex with BluTack. SO I added three. One to the PS Audio for the five disc changer. Two on the low level AC on Furman. Those 3 sounded really great. I tried one on the AC line the Furman REF 20 comes from. no, too much. Took it off. I added two to the separate line for the amplifier, also with BluTack, and the sound is still in the air. Cleaner, but slightly treble rich. But since I am actually listening to Classical music, which is often very treble rich.. I cannot make a snap judgement. With all the conditioning and such on my AC, seems I can hit ’Too many’ Noise Harvesters pretty easily. I can say 3 is very good. Plus if I like the sound but not the tilted a little to treble, I can adjust the resistors for thespeaker mids and bring it back to a better balance that way. Right now I have 0.75 DueLund Cast. I could easily go to a 1.0 ohm. or I have some 1.3 DueLund Cast too. |
Latest update in Noise Harvesters in my system. (It has become clear to me that the Noise Harvesters DO WORK and DO SOMETHING GOOD even when they are not blinking. Absolutely positive of this.) After some listening with five total in the system Excellent results. Stereo sounds very good. Better clarity ,dynamics, clean. I am VERY HAPPY I added them. NO need to adjust the balance of eh Magnepan 20.7 with resistors I think I am done. And curious the same number FIVE, as generally recommended. And I would say the BluTack CHANGES THE SOUND.. (Yes I hear the screeches and cries of all those skeptical types) and makes the sound less treble strong and makes the midrange better. Please since there is no backup on this tweak, I ask others who use Noise Harvesters to check it out with BluTack (or some other means of dampening the N.H. body) and report back. Otherwise it is just an untested tweak no one ever heard the likes of. Since the Noise harvesters are so ’loose’ when plugged in, they may be internally vibrating? and the BluTack quells this? I also remember another person mentioning adding Ers paper to the N.H. helped. (And I wonder if part of the ’help’ was not the sticky ERS paper but just dampening the body of the Noise Harvesters.???) |
I was looking at the noise harvester on PS's website. They charge a capacitor from the noise voltage, which also requires a diode in the circuit somewhere as well. When the SCR's gate voltage on the cap reaches the turn on limit, it fires and dumps the energy through a LED. The takeaway here is the noise continues to travel on the line until the capacitor charges up and fires the SCR. Using a LED as an indicator is novel but the older way of simply dissipating the energy in a resistor with a 100% duty cycle isn't as novel or as sexy but certainly is effective 100% of the time. In other words, the NH concept works only when the LED fires, the rest of the time the noise passes on through. Maybe I have this wrong, I'd have to buy one and open it up to sort out how it works. But that is my best guess on what and how it is doing it. |
Germs are just what we call 'bad' (or unhealthy to Humans) bacteria, Just so we all remember bacteria are 100% required for Human life. Without them (several POUNDS of them) in your gut, you could not survive. Be grateful for bacteria. we need them, they are our friends. Despite what the germ-phobic think. |
You’re probably confusing Germs with Germans, who were the real baddies. The first clue that German soldiers were the real baddies in the big one was the skull 💀 they wore prominently on their caps. Even though in every war each army wants to portray the enemy as the baddy many German soldiers eventually caught on that they were really the baddies. |
Update: in case you're interested. I found my JC 1s plugged into F Elite 20 cause the blue light to blink on front and rear outlets when powered on. Also, my Cox contour cable box adds noise even when off, but no noise added to the main line. My next test will be to plug the amps into the wall, like Parasound suggests, and see if noise is added to the main line and if the Furman removes it. I'll have to add some more outlets to do this, so it'll be a while. I'm thinking about using 12 Ga. Romex inside flexible metal conduit with metal boxes attached to a custom rack instead of more outlets in the wall.. |
@12blistn - If you do use Romex inside conduit then do upsize the AWG since it is not designed to operate in conduit and it may overheat. I'd go to 10AWG just to avoid the problem. However, it is going to be stiff and the solid Romex doesn't like to bend, so don't plan on moving it often. Why not just twist up a white/black pair of THHN 10 or 12 AWG wire with your drill and keep the ground wire separate from the twist? |
I was wondering about Romex inside conduit and didn't think it was used that way. I want to keep the same form of solid conductors like inside the wall instead of using stranded wire. I do like the idea of some type of shielding, also. I think the type of conduit I'm thinking of is called armored cable and is semi-flexible. I'm not sure about connecting a plug on the end. It won't be moved much. I know Pangea makes a quad box, but I was thinking of a little cheaper experiment. |
@12blistn - In that case, twist solid wire instead of the stranded stuff. Do keep the ground or earth wire out of the twist. That is, only Line and Neutral should be twisted together. You can get flex conduit in 1/2" or 3/4" conduit sizes and electrical boxes are easy to find in these sizes. If you use the armored cable, the wires inside are not twisted, so the fields around the Line and Neutral will inject currents into the earth wire, which can come across as a faint hum in your system. That will definitely muddy up the sound a bit. Twisting them pretty much eliminates this injection. |
FYI update and the blinking blue lights. When I moved my cable box from my Furman Power Conditioner to the wall, the noise harvester on the front of my FPC stopped blinking. It would start blinking when I turned on my power amps. The one in the wall didn't start blinking either way. I made additional outlets connected to the same circuit on the wall. When I plugged my amps into the new outlets, the NH on the front of the FPC and the one on the wall both don't flash now. I believe the sound is better with my amps not into the FPC and running off straight wall current, but I didn't do a lot of A/B testing with my rack pulled out from the wall. I took spatialking's advice on wiring into consideration, well almost. I used 3 orange 20A outlets with isolated grounds into 3 steel boxes. I connected the boxes using aluminum flexible conduit. I separated the solid green insulated 12AWG ground wire and ran it into it's own flexible conduit. I also didn't connect it directly to the steel boxes, just to the outlets. I twisted the solid black and white 12AWG wires and ran them into their own conduit between the boxes. I used the outlets themselves to connect the wires using the holes in the back tightened with the screws. Now I had 2 conduits going into a Sonar Quest alloy male plug. Well only one conduit fit. I stopped the ground conduit a little short. I connected another ground wire to the plug and rapped an exposed end around the conduit to ground it and the steel boxes. I connected the two conduits with a zip tie and electrical tape. The plug went into a Pangea 20A outlet(the cheap one) in the wall(20A circuit) with the FPC plugged in next to it. The house hasn't burned down, yet. :) |
I've fiddled with my Noise Harvesters. I recently noticed my dealer has a 'Blue Horizons Mains Noise Analyser' I asked to borrow it, yes. All that is in another thread https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/ac-mains-noise-borrowed-noise-sniffer-and-tested-my-ac-lines Just mentioning here that I DID put the extra two PS Audio Noise Harvesters #6 and #7 back on the audio system. On the Furman line. And nearly all of the power cords are sorted out for best sound. |
