Will62: I feel your pain. I've seen these inexpensive and (at least in pictures) attractive Chinese tube amps and have wanted to know what people's experience is. From the comments I've seen (and look above at some of the responses) it seems very hit or miss. Some folk have great experiences and others less good. It feels like there's little consistency, so you could get a 'rough diamond' or a lemon...I think you'd be OK buying from Amazon (check return policy) Other than that (in no particular order): - I've heard great things about Musical Paradise.
- I've heard Yaqin has above-average quality (but see Stero5's comments. Of course, that was 12 years ago)
- Quicksilver is a long-standing name in audio. I heard of them in the 80's! But they're expensive.
- Remember how the 'free market system' works. Bad products get a bad name and people stop buying. Do you want to be the 'canary in the mine' who finds out which brands are bad?
You 'pays your money and makes your choice'. Good luck! Gasbose |
If your interest is STRICTLY in opinions on $50 Chinese, slave labor built, tin audio equipment, maybe you could stick to the fake Amazon reviews.
people are just trying to help you out.....dude.
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Driving a pair of full range speakers with what amounts to a tube headphone amp.....priceless! I feel like im responding to a post that was started by Sam Tellig from Stereophile! LOL....and YUK= low watt SE amps imo. of course eveyone has one...opinions that is :-)
Matt M
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My Yaqin arrived this week. Definitely above average build quality. (Sound quality still under review) Honestly, it was better than I anticipated. Nice thick faceplate, well finished chassis sturdy as hell, quality connectors, and seriously beefy transformers. No cosmetic flaws I could find. Only area where it looks like they saved some money is the two knobs up front, which seem to be chromed plastic. |
@will62 I think your attitude stinks. This is a free and open forum, with people who are jumping in trying to help you. Read, and use the information that is best for you, but come on man. Apologize to everyone else whose info might not cater to your needs, as they are still trying to help. BTW, if you read your initial post/question, you do not sound like you have heard any tube amps at all. Much success to your purchase. Always, MrD.
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@will62, yes I have first hand purchase trial experience of both SS and tube amps in the sub $500 price range through Amazon.com, here's some personal thoughts I can share with you. Keeping it simple, avoiding technical jargon 1) Do these amps sound good? They sound 'acceptable' for sub $500 range. Unless you venture into 'used' gear, I don't believe you'll ever find 'good' or higher quality new amplifier sub $500 based on a global audiophile scale. 2) How good do they sound? In general tube amp in this price range will sound a lot better than SS in this price range because tube amp generate current differently so in general can handle low ohm speaker better. However, below are the caveats I found 2a) Gemtune when compared to Yaqin had really poor craftsmanship 2b) Modern Chinese tubes they use in these amp are built to sound like SS. So if you want the tube sound you'll need to roll tubes which will add to cost. Something to think about. Otherwise, out of the box you'll be disappointed that these tubes don't have the signature warm lush tube sound, they sound much closer to a Class D / Class H amp. 3) Most of these tube amps are built from kits, that's why many of them look just like each other. You can cross reference on eBay. Despite my personal bad experience, many people like Gemtune. Like some others here, I would stick with Yaqin as I have read online article that they build their amps out of a modernized ISO certified factory, you should Google about them. 4) Electricals are ok, I wouldn't worry. There are 1.4 billion people in China. In the city of Shenzhen where majority of electronics are made, city is so modernized it makes our Silicon Valley look like 3rd world country, it hasn't burned down yet despite the 12 million population there using so call 'cheap' Chinese electronics. I do wonder how many people here in America plug in their eBay purchase without ever checking the 110v VS 220v setting first. 5) The bad part. I've also previously had Yamaha A-U671 and Yamaha A-S801, both great integrated SS amps for their price. Price aside, compared to these modern Japanese ss amps, these sub $500 tube amps will loss a lot of the detail resolutions. So if you do simple vocal or jazz you'll be ok. But if you listen to large orchestral and enjoy picking out distinct instrument sounds, then you'll definitely have to up your budget. In the end you'll get what your money's worth, just matter of whether good enough. But I guess that's what the 30day return policy is for. |
I don’t know anything about those, but like my father always said "if you buy cheap, you get cheap". I would save your money and pick up a used pair of mono blocks from a reputable dealer. Look into american made QuickSilver. www.quicksilveraudio.com I have circa 1990’s M60’s - 60 Watt Mono blocks that I love. Bought them a few years back. good luck. If you are in NJ, go see (or call) Johnny at Audio Connection. http://www.audioconnect.com/ He is a wealth of knowledge |
@will62 no need to get angry with people trying to help you. I went back and re-read all the posts and pretty great consensus on Quicksilver as well as some awesome advice that you should heed. Not seeing anyone really recommending that stuff, but you seem hell-bent on probably spending the same that you would on a quality used pair to buy some new Chinese junk. Have at it brother. They'll probably be back on here for sale at some point. Listen to @tonydennison. he knows what he's talking about |
" I want to try one just to see how the sound compares to my Yamaha and Denon solid states."
the nobsound will sonically blow away your solid state gear, if you have very efficient speakers. If not these SE amps will run out of headroom pretty fast.
Also need to remember the Chinese amp manufacturers have come a long way in the last 112 years. I tied some of the earliest Chinese models that did not work right out of the box. Had to redo a few solder connections before they would work.
If you look beyond the SE amps, the music angel amps offer more power and sound really good, even better if you hot rod them with better parts.
If you are looking for pure value, the best value in Chinese amps are the RFTLYS brand. Its amazing what they offer for 400 bucks.
If you are looking to just try one of these inexpensive amps out, just make sure your speakers are easy to drive before you buy, otherwise you will not be happy.
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If you buy the cheap Chinese garbage, make sure your house has good fire insurance. |
I have a Line Magnetic integrated amp that is made in China. I also borrowed a SET amp from the same company that really got hot. I think this is a good company, but I would be very concerned about the safety of much cheaper budget amps. There are some companies that have oversight and quality control but they are few and far between in China. I had read a couple of articles about workers swapping parts and the inferior parts goes into an amp, the quality parts gets stolen to be resold later.
You can go super budget, but for anyone offering safety advice, like myself, I would take heed????
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It’s so easy for people to look down upon audiophiles that are new or have a minimal budget . In the price range you listed , avoid circuit boards . Also get something that uses common tubes that you can keep for a better amp when you move on . Get what you can adford and enjoy the learning experience . Someday when you move up/on, this will be the second system in your office . I had a Yamaha RV-X 1400, 105 wpc x 7. I changed it for an Anrique Aound Labs 30 wpc integrated. Had a really fun time . They were in the same price range and the 30 watt tube amp sounded better . If you can get to the $1k range , build a Bob Latino or buy a Will Vincent . You will love it , especially with upgraded driver tubes . New production power tubes are really quite good . Quicksilver is one of many quality affordable amps too . On the used market $1k will get you something that will have adequate power and decent sound quality . Interconnects , cords and tubes will be useful when you move on . As far as the sub $500 stuff , listen to the advise and don’t be afraid to return a couple . You fill find a synergy that will please you . And remember , like alcohol , drugs and women , tubes are highly addictive . Enjoy my friend , life is too short . Regards , Mike B. |
I recommend the McIntosh 275.
In all seriousness though, I own the Musical Paradise MP-301 and love it. It is an absolute steal for the $$, especially if you upgrade the tubes. It is designed, supported, and shipped by an Asian guy who lives in Canada. It is manufactured in China. The guy has a day job so it is a hobby type of business. The amp is in its 3rd revision. |
Having read this thread and being a long time AG user, it seems a great lesson in the fact that there are many paths and many people in this hobby. Threads like tubes vs SS go on forever, but that is what makes it fun. My own personal preferences are for quality used stuff, just like I never buy a new car. But others go differently. For me the fun is in finding a good or even great piece of classic gear and upgrading it. Will it match my friend's Macintosh outfit? Of course not, but I can't afford that so I do the best I can. I think that is what the OP is after. |
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Will, I can't speak directly to those amps you list but I do use one of those Chi-fi cheapies in my bedroom system, which is this one: https://www.amazon.com/APPJ-mini2013-Original-miniwatt-Amplifier/dp/B00JSNLT28/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=el...I might be made by Gemtune also. It's only 3 watts and I use it with my 101db efficient Zu speakers. I will say this, in a small room it sounds as good or better as any other amp I have owned, and that includes a few multi-thousand $$ amps. I've been using it for about 3 years with no problems. And if it breaks I will probably just buy another one for about $130. So if one of those you listed interests you, I say go for it. Only caveat is your speakers. I did use mine to power some 88db B&W towers for a while. It worked but the sound was nothing special. You might be ok on your 91db speakers but you'll have to try it and see. |
Hi again will62, I have a miniwatt as well (the Tube Cube 7 version). I can tell you that the Oldchen sounds much, much better, the miniwatt doesn't put out as much bass, even to 98db efficient speakers.
I hope those AudioKarma discussions helped. Post in one of those topics, a bunch of us own them and have been talking about them for a long time. I think you'll get more of the type of feedback you are looking for than you've gotten here.
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Foremost we are dealers, not of the amps you have listed but I have come across them since we service and take trade ins. We have had a very similar Yaqin traded in and I have a few customers who have tried the others you listed. As some have said and I feel it is incredibly true, you get what you pay for. Do these amps sound bad, not at all, for $200-300 they sound like they should at that price. Cannot compare them to a $2000-4000 amp because that is not what they are. Bargain of the century, absolutely not. With that said if your looking for a small inexpensive bookshelf system and want to roll the dice, maybe.
There is so much made in China animosity which for political reasons I can understand along with safety being a concern. We rebuild many 1970s solid state units which the same attitude was there against Japanese built units then. Today many of these are prized pieces for some vintage collectors today, however many of them were junk as well back then and are forgotten.
The one piece of advise I can offer is tube amplifiers tend to sound as good as the transformers they are built with and the quality of parts in the circuit. The iron on all these amps are tiny which I've seen many fail within monthes of buying. With that saving for a better amp makes more sense. Even if Amazon reviews are truthful, they are usually written shortly after purchase. A quality tube amp should last decades, not years which is what I feel you get with these inexpensive amps.
Good luck with your audio journey! |
addyson really does have his head up his addyson!
Will, I got it the first time. Sorry I don't have any experience with these either but I won't try to sell you something else.
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Leonard, no one is trying to sell anyone anything. Just offering sound advice and other options to a tube rookie on a limited budget. The only reason i am posting this is because of your attack on one of the people that wanted to help. A little more civility why dontcha. |
Hi Will, I don't have any experience with the amps you've listed but I do have a Yarland FV-34c that probably retailed for less than US$400. I use it as an office system with a pair of kef q1 bookshelf speakers (91dB) and it sounds great. I've also tried it with my ProAc D38's as an experiment, pretty extreme ends of the price scale but they're also 91dB efficiency and can be driven by as little as 10w but the little yarland just doesn't have a grunty enough power supply to drive them.
I'd imagine you might find the same with the amps you're looking at. Pair them with some easy to drive bookshelf speakers and a sub and they'll be fine, but they will likely struggle to drive floor standers without sounding thin and harsh.
Hope that helps. |
Will afterthoughts to my post. Check places like , The Tube Store Parts Express , Madison Sound too. The DIY stuff is cool and at least gives you a better understanding of circuits. I was lucky to be in high school in the early seventies . I took three years of Electronics and played with basic circuits and tube related radios and stereos . I think one of the Chinese amps you listed will be great . Then when your budget allows play with inexpensive full range driver speakers and DIY enclosures . Paper cones , no caps , no crossover, Belden bulk wire . This will sound great , be affordable and be perfect in a smaller room . I have $8k in a SEP, full range system . And it sounds better in a medium room and you must sit in “ The Sweet Spot “. My point is , with careful planning and some home building you can enter into the secret world of Single Ended ( like ) , Full Range tone and clarity for pennies . What you will find with your little amp and the paper cone speakers , is a headphone like Nirvana that people with a Mac 275 don’t comprehend. Will you’re the “ Soul Surfer “ in a world of Ocean Liners . Welcome to the “ Locals Only Break “! Check other chat sites that specialize in DIY single driver and you’ll meet the 60-70 year old geeks that love this stuff and don’t spend tons of money . Also if you come across a pair of ASL Wave 8’s , get them and restore them . I’ll close with this . About a year ago I was talking to Dennis Had , founder of Cary Audio . He was having a blast with some cheap paper cone drivers that he bought used for $20 , and he can have anything . Happy Listening , Mike B. |
Ming Da afforable tube amps
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will62 I think the Eastern Electric Minimax Integrated may be exactly what your looking for. High build quality, excellent sound from a well respected manufacturer reasonably priced at $550.00 from Bill at Morningstar audio. Good luck.
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In that price range, I would look for a lghtly used Sophia Electric Baby push-pull integrated, rated at 10wpc and runs in class A. Sounds glorious driving my back-horn loaded single driver speakers. |
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As usual, I am late to the party but I will add my $0.02 worth: in general, I try to avoid cheap Chinese products. Actually I avoid MOST products made in the PRC except for a few Hong Kong manufacturers. This is not due to political issues (which I have in plenty) but from experience. But YMMV...
IMO, the best Chinese made product I ever owned was the original Sophia Electric Baby amp - not the new MkII unit. Sophia Electric is an American firm w/ Chinese partners. This amp was quite good; 10W (more or less) and it sounded great with every monitor speaker I paired it with in my office. There are still plenty of these amps available on the used market for about $300 or so.
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Will62: I was on a similar search a few years ago for a tube amp and checked out some of the same units You are considering. I had some helpful communications with Garry Huang who owns Musical Paradise. I believe he’s in Edmonton Canada. I eventually brought his MP301; later bought some tube upgrades from him. I have used it with Omega 3i speakers for a few years without any problems. A lot fun, and very good for acoustic/solo instruments. The unit is very heavy, nicely finished, and quiet. I think the quality control is very good. A simple amp without any gimmicks.
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if they're made in China, I'd steer clear of them, cuz the transformers will probably give up in short order. my friend bought one of those and listened to it for a little while, then sold it. his was a push-pull design and it sounded ok but somewhat on the bright side. |
I owned a Jolida 502P for years and only replaced it as I became interested in Dennis Had's little hand made amps. But the Joilida was amazing for less money than any comparable tube amp out there when I was shopping around, but was sorted (and had a parts "upgrade") after manufacturing by the Maryland Jolida techs…so maybe that makes a difference. I also currently own a rarely used but well made Chinese $50 "Bravo" tube headphone amp…it's cute and sounds great with the better-than-stock 12AU7 tube I put in there. They immediately sent me a free new power supply when the original failed…whoever "they" are... |
I'm surely enjoying my Musical Paradise 301 mk3. 6.5 watts SEP sounds great on my quartets. Replace the stock signal tubes with RCA 6sj7's and it sounds very good-much better than the $400 price. I'm running Shuagang EL34's. My $$$ main rig sounds better overall I suppose, but the little MP has that tube dimensional ability that grabs a guy. |
I have three Nobsound tube/hybrid amps and also own the Nobsound MS-10D hybrid/stereo receiver (currently unavailable). I’ve had them for over a year with no problems with any of them. I started with the inexpensive NS-08E headphone amp and loved it so much that I got the NS-01E and the NS-02E, each with different tubes to play with and roll. This was my entrance into tube gear and I’ve gotten the tube sweetness and warmth I’d been looking for years, and at budget prices. The MS-10D puts out 25 watts per channel, enough to easily drive two JBLs with an 86 dB sensitivity.
No one could pay enough to go back to all S-S gear, including an NAD receiver that cost more than all four of these units put together. Tubes are alive and magic, and one does not have to spend an arm and a leg to get that rich mid-range sound, bouncing bass, and overall musicality. I have my receiver hooked up to my HDTV and the voices sound human.
I bought from Amazon and got the inexpensive 4-year protection plans in case of problems. The only problem I’ve had was a bad power supply with one of the amps, and after telling Nobsound about the problem, I was sent another one in a timely fashion.
There’s been a lot of criticism about Chinese gear over the years, but they’ve improved and the makers like great sound just as much as anyone and have tapped into a market where listeners are tired of the digital hardness and harshness and are offering affordable amps that people can try.
I also feel that some of the Chinese tubes are underrated but may take longer than other makes to sound their best. I’m still using the stock Chinese tubes in the MS-10D.
Nobsound is connected with Douk Audio and their products have continued to receive overall favorable reviews. I’ve used each amp with an audiophile pair of Grado GS-1000 headphones and found the combination addictive with each one of them—I rotate them for variety.
That’s my 2-cents worth from a person who actually owns some of these amps. I will add that I’m a professional musician with high standards of performance and I’m glad that I rediscovered the beauty and magic of vacuum tubes without spending a fortune.
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Will62. You came to a forum where people without blinking will spend $10,000 on an amp. Then you want their opinion on a $300 piece of junk amp from China? Seriously, what did you really expect?
And you are completely wrong on why it cost so little. It costs so little because quality is so low. |
Will62,
followed this post from a week or so ago. I have bought quite a few of the chinese amps, more out of curiosity than anything else. Most are very musical and offer a lot of value for the money.
So Last week, decided to order a Gentune verion of the Nobsound amp.
Appears to be identical other than the name on the front.
Tried it with 87db to 91db eff. speakers. It drove the 87 db fairly well before running out of gas. Quite musical sounding amp. on the 91db speakers. Pulled the bottom cover off. One big PCB wiith everything soldered to it...
tried some different tubes in the amp. have to say the PSVANEs that come with it sound better (more open) than any of the Russian versions I tried.
If you pop for it, don't think you will dislike it. a very pleasant amp to listen to....if it were hot rodded, would only get better......
J
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will62 has not shown up for a while, as I suppose a few of us hurt his feelings.......
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Interesting thread. I'm coming in pretty late. I've seen this before and it seems like the OP is looking for support for his choices. Opinions were given regarding potential QC issues of a Chinese made product at a very low price point which is valid. Also, he mentions not needing a lot of power which is true except when the dynamics of the music call for more. Then the system will sound weak. In this price range I'd look for SS amplification. There are far more choices with proven suppliers. |
@will62 I checked out the Gemtune online store after looking at your links. Much of their stock is marked "Sold Out", though they still have the Amazon model available for the same price. They also feature several Yaquins, which are significantly more, but add some street cred to the storefront. FWIW, $269 is NOT that big of a gamble when it comes to an amplifier! Especially with Amazon's return policy. There's a review of a Nobsound product here: https://toptubeamplifier.com/review-of-the-nobsound-ms-10d-mkii-hybrid-tube-amplifier/Though not the 6P1, it does bring up some good and bad points; however, when it comes to repair, you probably know a good electronics shop in your area that could bench test and repair anything that went wrong with the unit. And again, it's only $240. Some audiophiles spend that much on a wall outlet, for some reason. |
@pawlowski6132 And that's why audiophilia as a hobby is dying out.
I mean, anyone who's interested in good sound should be considered fairly, whether or not they can "blink" at dropping 10 G's on a component. If someone's blinded into equating money with value, that's their myopia.
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I appreciate the additional and more supportive feedback on this subject. Simply put I have a finite amount of dollars to work with and a budget to stick to. I've got so many other projects that consume money and time and also other things to buy like a new computer printer, computer etc. That leaves only a certain amount of money for the audio these days.
Just got the Miniwatt N3 aka TubeCube7. Swapped out the stock pre amp tube for a Mullard 12ax7 (new new stock) and it sounds great. Better than my old Yamaha A500 which is bi wired into the Castle Conway 3 towers. Using the Mirage OM 10 towers with the TubeCube7 and the sound is better than I had hoped. Will look at upgrading the power tubes in the near future. |
Fortunately I have a good repair shop in the area. Already have used them for a couple of things. At some point I may spend a bit more on a tube amp if the Yamaha A500 bites the dust. But will worry about that if the time comes. |
I should mention that the TubeCube7 drives my Mirage OM 10 towers just fine. Six ohm and 91 db sensitivity. I gets more than loud enough to hear in 30 feet away or two rooms away from the living room. The 8 ohm Castles don't work well with it.
To those that think my attitude stinks. Not really. I don't have much disposable income right now and won't for quite some time. I was quite clear about what I wanted and what I could spend yet many of you were off on another tangent and trying to push me in a direction i.e. products that don't interest me or I cannot afford. That is NOT being helpful at all.
Right now this little TubeCube7 is better sounding than ANY SS amp I've ever owned and it cost under $200. From where I sit I made a very wise choice and stayed within my budget. |
Primaluna and Hegel…(maybe somebody already mentioned this) they're made in China. |
Anyone have thoughts on a Dynaco ST-70 tube amp? 40 WPC right?
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@simao first of all, this hobby is not dying out. Not sure why you would even say that.
Second, Will62 was treated fairly. He was treated equally just like everyone else that posts here. When anyone asks a question like his, the forum members will speak in the context of audiophilia (is this a word? sounds creepy). It’s not reasonable to come in here and expect that people are going to have great things to say about a $50 amp from China. It’s just not going to happen. And then to chastise those members for acting like an audiophiliac? That’s like my wife who yells at our dog for barking, digging holes and chasing cats.
Sounds like the only way Will62 would be happy is if everyone said, yeah, great amp! But since he didn't hear that, he's upset. Surprise! nobnody here's going to say that.
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@pawlowski6132
Yeah, audiophilia is a word. But it's not as creepy as the title of that briefly-lived magazine marketed towards cyclists, Pedalphilia.
Anyhow, I see your point, though I don't completely agree with it. I just hate seeing someone relatively new to the hobby made to feel lacking.
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I read all the posts . And i thought these folks were trying to give their best advice that they could give on your question .I do not think they were rude trying to be rude.I think you really had your mind made up from the very beginning and were hoping to hear more positive replies. Good luck |
I was quite clear about what I wanted. Why people are pushing me off in another direction is a problem. Yes, a problem especially if they are trying to get me to spend money I don't have to spend right now. If I wanted to get opinions about other amps I would have asked.
I'm a fiscal Conservative and don't go spending money on anything without first doing research. Precisely why I ended up with the TubeCube7 for now. Good amp, very reasonable price and it has a warranty. I don't have the time, money or inclination to buy used and then have to find someone to do repairs. While it is usually true that you get what you pay for, there are instances such as in this case, where you don't have to spend a lot to get something good. Stereophile gave it a very good review and in fact virtually every review of this amp has been positive. Not a piece of junk.
Bottom line is that I am very happy with this amp. It sounds better than any SS amp I've owned.
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I had never heard of the TubeCube7 although I've bought tubes from "the depot" from time to time...interesting. Note that my World Class "El Fabuloso" Dennis Had Firebottle SEP HO (It's a HO...says so right on the front panel) cost only 1100 bucks used. His new stuff is around 1500. Cheap but amazing, a good fit for any fiscal conservative. "Get what you pay for" absolutely does not apply when poking about in the morass of audio gear, but audiophile research does. |
