Jazz for aficionados

Pryso, I think it was "Bags Groove".

One more for the road. That time frame is working out real well for me.



        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k94zDsJ-JMU

I know that Frogman, but not on this cut, plus I'm almost certain that's the album but I will check and get back to you. If Horace Silver intentionally sounded like Monk because Miles told him to, could he fool you?

He flubs a note at .52

Frogman, how do you know it was a wrong note?

Here's another well known tune, by a well known artist that you can identify on the opening. This is probably the most recorded tune in all of jazz;


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r77GLcGlvQ

As the decider in chief of this thread, it is my job to discern what is and "what is not". In regard to Jamie Foxx as Ray Charles, there were times when I thought he was Ray Charles, and that's what acting is all about; to make the audience believe they are looking at a real event taking place in front of them as opposed to a movie. I can't think of any movie where this was done better than Jamie Foxx as Ray Charles.

If anyone can show a better example of an actor portraying a living person, I would like for them to post it.



Enjoy the music.

When in doubt, let Frogman figure it out.

Actors don't create stories, it's not their job; that's for writers. Actors create believable characters.

I never saw General Patton; consequently I have to take your word for whether or not George C. Scott did such a marvelous job as Patton; however, I have seen Ray Charles more times than I can count, and there were times when I thought I was looking at "Ray Charles"; Jamie Foxx had all those quirky mannerisms of Ray down pat.

Have you ever seen "The Godfather"? The answer is no, because he was a fictional character, but all of us have seen Ray Charles; therefore we all know how he looked, as well as his mannerisms. I rest my case.


Enjoy the music.

Has everyone seen "Round Midnight? I don't see any comments, and do you have the soundtrack?

I saw a good movie about "Expats" (Paris Blues) that didn't have the high quality of jazz as "Round Midnight". I was just wondering, how do you grade a jazz movie; meaning, the quality of the movie, or the quality of the jazz; your thoughts.


Enjoy the music.

Learsfool, unless the actor is "Dexter Gordon", I'm not interested, but apparently it's time for a change of subject.

I don't think we've heard "Badal Roy".


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjEQda_4QWM



Enjoy the music.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I got 20/20 vision.


Enjoy the music.

How's this for a change of pace?


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvUQcnfwUUM


Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, before I even look at this video, I want to say "Thank you very much"; that's because I know so little about Eric Dolphy, and personally I haven't given his music the consideration it deserves. A jazz musician is his music, consequently, I haven't given Mr. Dolphy the attention he deserves.

He was loved and admired by musicians I love and admire; therefore if I don't feel the same way about Erik Dolphy, maybe it's because I haven't given him enough attention.

I will get back to you with a full review.


Enkoy the music.

Ghosthouse, it's after midnight, and I just discovered a new way to spell Enjoy.

Ghosthouse, I was sympathetic with Dolphy until just before the end. He was not a drug addict, but he was acting somewhat like a junky, and that's what the medical people thought.

No junky would ever go on stage in that horrible condition; why did he go on stage? He went into a diabetic coma because Doctors thought he was a junky, and didn't treat him as a diabetic. Why didn't everyone know that he was a diabetic? That was Eric's fault. Did he know he was diabetic?

If a genius was diabetic, he could quite possibly seem a little "cooky" if his blood sugar got too low. Erik's death was Erik's fault; he didn't die because he had diabetes, he died because he was not living like someone who had diabetes, and not only that, but the people close to him didn't seem to know that he was diabetic.

I can not think about his music, after discovering how unnecessary his death was.



Enjoy the music.

Now that I think about it Ghosthouse, it was extremely harsh. I didn't take "that time" into consideration, which means public awareness of diabetes. While my statement was accurate, it didn't take mitigating factors into consideration.

Personally, I'm going to erase that and focus on his music. That document certainly increased my knowledge of the man and his music, and I thank you for this.

I would appreciate it if we both got into his music, and compared notes and opinions in a specified time that I'll leave to you.

BTW - Thunk it up all by myself.



Enjoy the music.

Eric was different in every way. As I stated before, a jazz musician and his music are one; the fact that almost everybody else plays someone else's music, while a jazz musicians music is coming from his soul helps to confirm this.

That statement is based on 3 jazz musicians that I was close to as people, and liked their music. While that's a small number, it's a big number relative to most people. When I listen to Eric's music, I can see Eric in an abstract sort of way.

None of us can comprehend how important a jazz musicians music is to him; everything else is secondary. Another thing about jazz musicians that's incomprehensible to us is their love for another jazz musician who is in harmony with their music. An example is Roach and Brown; Max was out of whack for a long time after Clifford's death.

Very few musicians can be in harmony with Mingus's music, but Eric was, and that's why Mingus was so upset about Eric leaving him.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cimpUKVAbY8


I think Eric sounds best as sideman; that's because a concentrated dose of Eric is more than I can handle.




Enjoy the music.

Speaking of the "bass Clarinet", bought this album "Kalenia" by Oran Etkin that has two of my favorite instruments; bass clarinet, and balaphon, a West African instrument.

This CD is so unusual that it takes more than one listen to get into it, but it's well worth it. Here's Oran Etkin;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rocYxIkcA4s


Enjoy the music.

This record seems to have been our most impressive in some time; I'll have to get it.

I've not posted lately because I was in the hospital for a few days; old age was the diagnosis.

"A Story Often Told But Seldom Heard", with just Roland Hanna, and George Mraz, is very intriguing; so much so that each repeat play reveals something different.


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVXvNaMC3FI



If all this is a repeat, that's just an indication of how impressive it is. This is the most "sublime" version of this song I've ever heard.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyTNcWYxv94



Enjoy the music.

Schubert, today's doctors and hospitals are most impressive; in my case they're dealing with unknown stuff related to the US Government (VA, besides old age), and they seem to be making a remarkable amount of progress; reminds me of "Star Trek", the way they do analysis.

Your concern helps Schubert, and I appreciate it.


Enjoy the music.

This is a good time for me to show my appreciation for artists that have given me so much pleasure over the years; in this case, a specific sideman.

When I think of a record by Donald Byrd, Lee Morgan, or Charles Mingus, I never think of the sidemen who worked so hard with their unique talents to make that record a hit. One side man in particular I would like to feature is "Pepper Adams" and the part he played in my favorite records.

I heard these records on the jukebox when I was living the life that only allowed you to assess the music from what you heard because there was nothing to read when the music emanated over some clubs system from the jukebox.

Donald Byrd, "Here Am I"; focus on Pepper Adams baritone.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CewhwrPi044




Here again we hear Pepper Adams smoking baritone, but I for one, didn't think much about because it was Lee Morgan's record.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0P2YugUnU&list=PLEE6B352B63B2B0CC


Listen to the way Pepper Adams smokes this tune on the LP headlined by Mingus; my point is, Pepper Adams was one dynamite sideman on baritone that I didn't give the credit he was due.



                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY




Enjoy the music.

Love is an intense feeling of affection and care towards another person. It is a profound and caring attraction. On the other hand, lust is a strong desire of a sexual nature.

Young people go into a state of "lust" whenever they see another beautiful person with a boss body.

"Love" is a passionate feeling towards another person that's developed over a period of time.

A "true" crime of passion is one where the perpetrator had not an inkling of a thought they would commit such a crime against the person they loved just prior to the event.

I'll give you a scenario; the woman is cutting up chicken, she has a long butcher knife in her hand (naturally). Words are exchanged ( they are having a lovers spat, but are not yet married, which is something she wants)

For some reason, he says "There is no way I would marry you"; she twirls without thought or hesitation, with the (unconscious) intention of plunging the knife through the center of his heart.

If the guy was agile enough, he deflected the knife and wound up with a slight scratch; but if not, there was a corpse on the floor with a knife protruding from it's heart, and a woman wandering how it got there.

Lust involves the satiation of desires that are of a purely sexual nature, and could involve deviant people that are already off the "normal" chart who could have a proclivity for murder.

The person who commits the "true" crime of passion is as normal as sunshine; somebody said or did something that unleashed the passionate love they felt, and turned it into a violent rage that was on automatic, and could not stop before the deed had been done.

Lee Morgan was to the trumpet, what Charley Parker was to the alto sax; every one wished he had lived a long and creative life, even Helen Morgan.



          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AQojVIUmbc&list=PL49B0943B4B9DCDFD



Enjoy the music.

Rok, it's not about approval of white people, it's about making a living.

Let me tell you about the racism that does not exist; it's a long story, so I hope you aren't in a hurry.

In 1980, a "white" man without a college education, who worked at one of the car manufacturing plants, or aircraft factory, could expect to be able to purchase a 3 bedroom ranch with 2 baths, an entertainment room, plus 2 car garage. All of this would be in a nice suburb, with green grass, where everybody mowed their lawns, and there were no sirens to keep you woke, or gunfire. (a black man who worked at one of those places could do the same thing, but he wasn't the one who put the wrench in the works)


Philadelphia, Mississippi is where James Chaney, a 21-year-old black man from Meridian, Mississippi, Andrew Goodman, a 20-year-old White jewish anthropology student from New York, and Michael Schwerner, a 24-year-old White jewish CORE organizer and former social worker also from New York were murdered.

    Two White jewish civil rights workers, and one black worker were lynched shortly after midnight on June 21, 1964, when they went to investigate the burning of a church that supported civil rights activity.

    The autopsy report stated that Chaney had a left arm broken in one place, a right arm broken in two places and groin injuries. All three were shot to death.

    This is where Ronald Reagan gave his post-convention speech after being officially chosen as the Republican nominee for the President of the United States at the Neshoba county fair. This was just a few miles from where the horribly mutilated bodies of three civil rights workers were discovered. Reagan said, "I believe in States' Rights." And he went on to promise to "restore to states and governments the power that properly belongs to them."

    The people in the United States of America, who this speech was meant for, recieved the full impact, including the location, which was where the Civil Rights workers were lynched.

      Since he opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it didn't matter that he opposed unions; as long as he was for "States Rights", which was a euphemism for lynching blacks with impunity. He said President Jefferson Davis was one of his hero's while campaigning in Georgia. (Jefferson Davis was the President of the slave South during the Civil War) Although Reagan opposed any and everything to do with Civil Rights for blacks, he said he was not a Racist.

      His war on labor was a war on the "Serf Class", (those without college educations) If you are unemployed, or working for minimum wage; you can probably thank Ronald Reagan. However, the most unique aspect of where we are now; is that Union members voted for Ronald Reagan in 1980 and 1984. This is equivalent to a rabbit voting for year round rabbit hunting.


      During his two terms in office, millions of Americans were thrown out of work, while the richest had their taxes cut in half. As productivity increased from 1980 to the present, working peoples wages remained essentially frozen. Major corporations laid off tens of thousands of workers while making enormous profits.

      By Republican standards, Ronald Reagan is considered the best President ever. His success was the destruction of the unions that had fought so long and hard for the high wages and benefits that gave American workers the highest standard of living in the world.

      The speech he gave in Philadelphia, Mississippi where he symbolically stood on the graves of three lynched civil rights workers and promised to restore states rights; solidified the southern vote for the Republican Party forever.

      Union members are still voting Republican. When deer put lions and tigers in office, what do they expect. Today 20 July 16, as I am writing this; as the "Good old boy's" say "Hit don't make no difference now" and as a friend of mine used to say, "It's all over but the shoutin", when is the funeral.


Enjoy the music.  

Here's the last one Pryso;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdlvzIEz-g

That record, "The Breeze and I", by Joe Diorio, and Ira Sullivan, had one of the most beautiful versions of "I Wish You Love" I've ever heard. If it's available, I'll get it.

I like Red Rodney's "Star Eyes" as well; is that available?

Ira Sullivan's "Jitterbug Waltz" made me think of another version;


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C6GgL4T9W8

Crwindy, somehow my statement in regard to your post on Shirley Horne didn't come out quite right. I hope it didn't discourage you.

As you can see we're a free wheeling bunch; some of us are playing my game, others are submitting Christmas music, we even have some New Orleans blues; so just jump in with whatever you feel comfortable.

Rok, I understand, my last post implied there was a difference between the Republican, and Democratic parties; maybe there was once upon a time, but as far as I'm concerned they both are politicians, who are only for politicians.

When I was a kid shooting marbles, we had something called "Hobble squabble", and when that was yelled out, everybody pounced on the marbles in the ring to see who could get the most; today, that's the way it is with the Democratic and Republican Parties.

Rok, I will retract anything you find that is incorrect; simply point it out to me.



Enjoy the music.

I rated those three links the same as you; naturally we liked Mingus the best.

Although jazz musicians had a tough time (when they were the best) back then, I believe things are better now for a number of reasons: number 1 being they can go to a recording studio and have a CD made, and sell it at their live performances. That would most certainly help the really good musicians who only need exposure.

While that was on the plus side, I think the number of places for them to appear is on the minus side; it's got to be hard to make a living as a jazz musician. From what I heard, they still have to go to Europe and Japan; although it's not a race thing, but a cultural thing.



Enjoy the music.

I've noticed that Eric sounds best as a sideman to me. There are a number of musicians I liked very much on other records led by someone else. On baritone sax there is Pepper Adams with Donald Byrd, and also with Mingus, who was absolutely fantastic; but I don't have the same opinion of albums where he led.

That is also true for Eric; I liked him with Mingus, and he also has blown some brilliant solos with other musicians such as Oliver Nelson on "Blues And The Abstract Truth". He blows alto, and flute on "Stolen Moments", one of the most beautiful tunes in all of jazz.  Eric's flute solo puts this tune over the top.


  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbaGDDbpcQ4


It was so unfortunate and tragic, what happened in Germany, just when all was going to come together for Eric Dolphy.



Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, as much as I would like to, I can't blame that doctor; this is in Germany, where that doctor had to go on what he believed, based on what he had heard and read. There just was not enough time to correct his misconceptions.

Today, and I mean right up until this present moment; "Stereotypifiers" ( a new word) who have scads of information at their fingertips, do the same thing. No matter how you add, subtract, multiply, and even do long division, the answer will always be the same, in regard to long held beliefs. As a result of those people, we are all going to hell in a hand basket together.



Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, Erick Dolphy was self treating himself for "low blood sugar" when he asked for the bottles of Coke, and ice cream. This means he had experienced some kind of symptoms before that indicated low blood sugar, and had treated himself by raising his blood sugar with Coke and ice cream.

I believe he overdid it this time, and raised his blood sugar too much; enough to go into a coma.

Jazz musicians at that time, had a thing about doctors and hospitals; I don't know how much of it was justified. "Nica koenigswarter" , the "Be-Bop Baroness", had to convince, and then take Coleman Hawkins to the hospital when he was deathly ill; that probably saved his life, because otherwise, he wasn't going.



Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, I applaud the way you are consistently refuting my answers with sound logic, that indicates you are seeking the truth, and want no part of any preconceived notion.

You are absolutely correct, that doctor was an impostor; doctors are men of science, he had all sorts of test instruments, and equipment, at his disposal; regardless what he surmised, he should have tested to discover the "truth".

Politicians almost always use preconceived notions to get votes, they are as afraid of the truth, as they would be of a saw scaled viper; one of the most venomous snakes in the world.

"How did you know he was lying"? His lips were moving, and he's a politician.



Enjoy the music.

The bass clarinet is a very under utilized instrument in my opinion.

        
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSZtX3WHF_E



        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfQfv99BCHE



Erik Dolphy excels on this instrument.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cimpUKVAbY8



Enjoy the music.

Rok, what's your take on the link that Ghosthouse provided; do you think things have gotten better for jazz musicians, and if so, how?

I'll wait for your response.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, "Hit don't make no difference now"; the entire south is on food stamps.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, this is not the first time this trolley jumped it's tracks and it won't be the last time. Would you kindly go back to my post at 3:32 PM today. That was the last post I made that is "applicable" to this thread; it was about the bass clarinet, an interesting instrument.



Enjoy the music.

Since jazz movies, or movies about jazz musicians, are the current topic of discussions; I'll begin by asking, has anyone seen "Miles Ahead", "Born To Be Blue", about Chet Baker" or "Nina".

Although I haven't seen any of them, I will relay to you what's been said by others. "Nina" it seems isn't Black enough, and that goes for skin color as well as attitude. Zoe Saldana isn't dark enough, and can't sing. (how did she get the part?) Sounds like another flop.

"Born To Be Blue" it seems this is the one movie that got a good rating.

"Ethan Hawke lights up the screen as jazz legend Chet Baker, whose tumultuous life is thrillingly reimagined with wit, verve, and style to burn. In the 1950s, Baker was one of the most famous trumpeters in the world, renowned as both a pioneer of the West Coast jazz scene and an icon of cool. By the 1960s, he was all but washed up, his career and personal life in shambles due to years of heroin addiction. In his innovative anti-biopic, director Robert Budreau zeroes in on Baker's life at a key moment in the 1960s, just as the musician attempts to stage a hard-fought comeback, spurred in part by a passionate romance with a new flame (Carmen Ejogo). Creatively blending fact with fiction and driven by Hawke's virtuoso performance, "Born to Be Blue" unfolds with all the stylistic brio and improvisatory genius of great jazz".

That's a good write up, sounds like a movie worth seeing; Carmen Ejogo certainly makes a pretty picture.

There it is folks, now you can add your two or three cents worth.



Enjoy the music.

Ahmad Jamal is the only major jazz artist we have not thoroughly reviewed. He is one of the few artists that Miles admired. That alone indicates this artist must have something worth investigating.


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyyfM-gI400


I ran across that interesting album on first search.


Enjoy the music.

"Nica"  was a most astounding lady; she did more in one life than most people could have done in three lives. When I was young (17), the stories about her and "Bird" were so pervasive, that I believed them, and they made her out to be no more than a "hootchie mama" ( in current slang) That gives you an idea of the power of the press.

From what was available, I chose "Pannonica".




Enjoy the music.

Although Sax is my favorite instrument, I'm getting tired of it. (bad choice of words, but it's late) Looking at your list, the people I don't listen to on a regular basis are Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, Lee Konitz, and Lenny Tristano.

I suggest we set up some guidelines so that we'll know how to proceed,and when the review on that particular artist has concluded. When we decide to review an artist, all aficionados should agree to focus exclusively on that particular artist.

Getting this thread to go as a unit in one direction is like trying to herd cats. I for one promise to go along with whatever guide lines are set up, and to focus on the artist in the spotlight, but it's quite evident that we need to do this before proceeding.

Rok, that means you can keep "today's listen" to yourself, unless you are listening to the artist in the spot light. BTW you did a good job of reviewing and focusing on "Horace Silver".


Enjoy the music.

Pryso, as I stated in the beginning, this game is exclusively for the heaviest jazz aficionados, not casual jazz listeners; ergo, those first notes are only applicable to the heaviest of aficionados, as this game is.

Although this tune has been on before, I didn't recognize it, and it really impressed me;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi3i-HqDNFI

Frogman, thank you for that information that I never knew about; since Patricia Barber's version was the only one I knew about, I thought it was her original.

Rok, I'm going to digest all of that and get back to you.

Da chick is hot! I think she could help me recuperate.

Frogman, I find your comment much more interesting than mine, which was a nothing comment, but the fact that you made it serious is much more significant.

Do you think that comment should be removed?

There are people who make a big deal about a comment like mine, but never see the homeless people in our big cities, or how jobs in this country have been "off shored" as a result of NAFTA , CAFTA and a host of other trade agreements

Frogman I'm already in trouble for informing people of how the wealth of this country has been transferred to the oligarchs. I admit it's nice when you're on the receiving end of the transfer.



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6niWzomA_So&t=2170s



Otherwise it's not so nice


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqjJJgjVHlU&list=PL51CPD51hq2TZZVQ8LHwEqwxpY-5DfE51



This stuff was designed by perverse depraved politicians in expensive suits, and you call these thieves "Your Country" when they only steal from poor people who can't defend themselves;  



          CUT THE FOOD STAMPS, AND LET THEM EAT CAKE.


Maybe you can get me kicked off this forum and take over the thread after this post.

Rok, I may not be on the Kool Aid, but I am a MOWRON for engaging in a subject with you or Frogman which you know nothing about; plus you deny what the links presented, not what I've presented.

Strateahed, Miles Davis had the biggest ego of any musician who ever lived; that fact alone indicates why he never had anything to say about Lee Morgan, and at the same time, it makes a humongous statement in favor of Lee Morgan.

It's one thing to look back at history, but it's altogether another when history is right now; on the street, the conversation was always hot among Aficionados about the best trumpet shortly after Clifford Brown's death. While I always took Clifford Brown, I was always challenged by Lee Morgan fans. In hindsight, it was because I had not heard enough of Lee Morgan; today I consider it "possibly" a toss up leaning toward Lee Morgan because of his output of so much outstanding jazz.

It is because of discussions like these, that my collection is gaining in the most sparkling contributions of modern jazz ever recorded.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, as always, your post is 'technically' correct, but in the looser artistic sense I disagree with it.

Diz and Bird, 'technically' correct in regard to "Bebop" the new jazz that progressed into "hard bop"; but in regard to Lee Morgans prodigious creativity in jazz that stayed in the mainstream of jazz without 'flip flopping' all over the place like Miles who was always searching for a new audience, I will take "Lee Morgan" any day.

While Lee Morgan idolized Clifford Brown (everybody did, and that includes me) it wasn't Lee Morgans fault that Clifford didn't live longer, and that he Lee Morgan should have such a large output of creative jazz that has withstood the test of time and brought him into the top ranks of jazz trumpeters of all time.

As I stated before, when I chose Clifford Brown over Lee Morgan, it was because I hadn't heard enough of Lee Morgan; now that I'm listening to Lee Morgan, I'm amazed at the new creativity that pours out of his horn on each album without ever being repetitive.


Enjoy the music.