@prof
I'm honestly a little surprised at this behavior in this price bracket, but I also got to hear a pair of floor standing McIntosh speakers, and they practically rattled with the human voice.
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First, apologies, I’m being a troll because I have no other way to relate to other people. Let’s just get that speculation out of the way.
I had the chance to hear my second pair of Magicos, and bot the S1 Mk II and S3 that I just heard both had a similar characteristic. A kind of chestiness with voices and piano.
Listening to Diana Krall’s Live in Paris, the bottom of her voice was significantly exaggerated. With the S1 Mk II, the same, male vocals (in the Magico demo space) were also over-accentuated.
When I heard the pre-release S1 I thought it was just the nature of trying to balance out a small 2-way and trying to give it a little bit of extra bass. Now that I have heard the S3 in a good room, I have to say: This wasn’t a compromise, but a shared attribute.
Best,
E
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The McIntosh speakers I've listened to are to my ears perhaps the worst "high end" speakers I've encountered.
That is a real shame. I'm a fan of the MTM array, in principle, but how you can avoid hearing that buzzing is beyond me. This was my first real opportunity to hear those array components. |
No, they are not. :) But they sure are in a much better space. I was drunk when I wrote this. I meant, I heard the Magico's in a very well treated listening room. |
I’m sure there better than whatever you have!!
No, they are not. :) But they sure are in a much better space. Yeah, sorry, I guess "chesty" isn't in the vernacular (yet). By chesty I mean like extra voice sounds that come from the chest. If you think of going "aaaah" for the doctor, that sound starts from your upper chest. That chest sound is what the Magicos seem to do poorly with. And it is true, no speaker does everything, but a lot of less expensive speakers lack such obvious coloration too. Best, E |
@audioconnection
That is perfect!
E
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I have said this about all the Magico's I've heard other than the M1 I
think it was. I too agree that many are told that this is what music
sounds like. That's really interesting, @cstooner , because when I posted my S1 Mk II review I got nothing but hate mail. You and @prof are the first who have shared my experience. Of course, to your own ears be true, you should buy what you like, but I thought it curious that during the Magico demo they allowed voices and piano for only a short period. Best, E |
the shift from V to Q to M was all about reducing any colorations
frankly such that at first blush the M sounds bland and lacking at the
frequency extremes. Well that sure does sound like they have their audience figured out! |
I also think that if you're drunk it's better to criticize Magico owners
than most other brands. Tekton owners would pop a cap in your ass.
Well, I would never criticize anyone for owning what they like to listen to. :) And for some with the right gear and setup, what I hear as exagerrated they may hear as delicious or mandatory. |
Though I believe I know the coloration you are talking about with "chesty," there’s also the case FOR voices sounding "chesty."
You read my mind, @prof. I was kind of wondering how this helped. I mean it seems deliberate, so why is the choice made? I can see this helping. Best, E |
Hi @prof
Thanks for the kind words. How certain? About 60-70%, given the lack of a controlled environment.
The main reason is that I've heard this unique flavor only in Magico's but in two different rooms and models.
The first time I heard Magico speakers was an S1 Mk II in the Magico factory, driven by enormous and expensive tube gear fed by a Berkeley DAC. This time was in a local LA showroom which was thoughtfully treated, but not to the extravagance of the factory. Mark Levinson monoblocks, and I forgot the sources.
This unique signature is just not one I have heard very often, so when I heard vocals it immediately stood out.
So, this is not a controlled experiment at all.
Truth is, based on my own standards, I'm one guy, who heard 2 speakers in two different locations. :) No one should take my comments as worth spending money on. But I do think this is an interesting characteristic to talk about.
Best,
E
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@shadorne
My guess is you are hearing the sound of the polypropylene plastic bucket that houses the midrange. Well, it certainly IS in that range. Are you guessing about the Magico's midrange construction or is that known? Best, E |
More specifically you should say Magico S series speakers are chesty
@folkfreak I defer to your experience. It's true, I've only really heard the S series, but your progression and description sounds like a well planned product development strategy. God I am so tempted to hack a pair. :) If only I had a bazillion dollars to blow on taking apart a speaker whose crossover I'm going to completely rework. What a waste of money that would be! E |
Hey @sciencecop LOL, I suggest you call up Magico and offer your help...
Oh no, I am 100% sure they are choosing their tonal balance carefully. If I hacked it would be to see if I could make the S line sound like the M line. :) To suggest that Magico does not use vocal and piano in their demos is pretty weak. Makes we wonder if you ever been to such a presentation.
I’ve heard exactly one. At the Magico factory of the S1 Mk II. And yes, the vocal and piano was a lot shorter than all other music. Was it deliberate, do they do it all the time, I have no idea. But I present to you my sample size. The genius you are, you should know that the S1 being a 2-way, will have no midrange enclosure… I did not make that claim, so you’ll have to ask the original poster about that. And this is one reason why I doubt plastic in the mid range is the cause. However, it’s not just about material but construction. You can make plastic non-resonant at certain frequencies if the 3D construction is done right. What I find most interesting really is that the S, (a 2 way, shares this characteristic with a 3-way. Usually you have to compromise in some way with a 2 way and a 6" driver. Often you need to add a little extra bass somewhere to make it sound balanced, which is fine so long as you don’t directly compare it to a multi-way full ranger. So, when I heard the S1, I thought "Huh, that is an interesting compromise." But when I heard the S3 it made me think this is a design choice. Also, I’d discourage you from using cynical ad hominem attacks here.Save it for social media. |
@shadorne I just realized I misread this:
My guess is you are hearing the sound of the polypropylene plastic bucket that houses the midrange. My apologies, I thought you meant the driver basket. I had forgotten all about the bucket! Yes, but as @sciencecop points out, this isn't present in the S1. Assuming the same issue is in both, I'd say it's a crossover tuning issue. But that doesn't mean that the S1 and S3 don't have different causes of the same issue. Best, E |
I guess my point is that the S1, being small footprint speakers, you'd kind of expect to want to use them in a small space, with something like a 60W tube or class-A integrated. Essentially what we might call an intimate system.
IMHO, this wouldn't work at all.
They are just as demanding as much larger speakers in terms of space and perhaps more so in terms of power.
I did not mean to say you need a kilowatt amplifier for them, just that the normal calculus for small speakers seems off to me.
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Don't know about any of that... They were marvelous in a small room,
very close to the back wall, with the smallest Spectral. I was also told
that they sound magic with the Octave V110 integrated (110 W), albeit
very different sound from the Spectral.
Good to know! |
@mheinze
Honestly, there was a lot I liked more about the S1 than the S3.
The S1, except for the congestion noted in my original post, has a glass smooth midrange to treble, and truly impressive dynamic range along with a very wide listening angle.
The S3 I heard was not as smooth, and honestly a little strident as things got loud. (this may be dealer electronics, or acoustics but it was something I heard elsewhere in the showroom).
The S1 remains a weird thing to me. It requires a lot of space, a lot of power, and ultimately sounds better at low listening volumes. I mean, it has the dynamic range, but the tonal balance is a bit cool, and encourages more late night quiet listening than R&R at full volume. And damn, it is inefficient. I really had hoped to hear that the S3 fixed everything, but honestly, in the short presentation I heard, if those were my only two choices in speakers, the S1 was far better.
Again, I have no idea what contributed. It could have been the room, or cables. No idea. Just based on my 2 auditions, hands down the S1 wins.
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I think their efficiency is around 83 dB, no?
Because they have a very wide dispersion. To make them sound their best they need just as much room as much larger speakers.
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The Magico's I've heard are flat/neutral and so are really dependent on
what source and amplification are ahead of them, like most revealing
speakers. To my taste they sound "good" but lack a personality .. @chrisoshea do you remember what series you listened to? |
@dguitarnut
Interesting! Maybe it was the room I listened to them then. The dealer had done his own acoustics, and quite possible he sucked out all the wrong frequencies.
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Maybe Magico's aren't for everyone.......DUDE!!!!!! And that's what makes this hobby fun. :-) E |
For better or for worse, listeners are definitely polarized about Magico
speakers, in the way that they were polarized about Thiel 3.6 speakers
way back when.
I'm not that polarized, really. I think set up well Magico's are pretty nice, but the ones I have heard do have a certain sound to them. You should like it. Frequency response plots are hard to come buy, but the two I have seen kind of back me up. While Thiel was still alive, I'm afraid the treble tuning was not for me, just like Triangle, so I was unable to appreciate any of the famous imaging/phase matching features the brand was so known for. With all speakers, buy what you like. Best, E |
Not really, these are all gated measurements. Wow, sounds pretty high tech. |
