Bwhite- this is new. I had used the Berning and the Joule with no problems. Then the Joule crapped out and went home to Jud for repairs. When I hooked it up upon return, BUZZZZ. Its from the amp, not the speakers. Swapped in a new (old) pre, dead quiet. Upon Jud's suggestion, I powered the Supratek via (gasp!!!!) an old extension cord from another circuit. A little buzz at the amp, but in playing around with home made noise detector (a length of old hose held up to the ear), I was able to track the predominant noise source to the power supply stage of the pre-amp!!! Further testing showed me that it is coming from inside the pwer supply, up through the vent (?) slots in front of the rectifier. NOt sure I want to fish around further in there with power on and high voltages, but does anyone who knows how these things work have any ideas? |
A question for you guys.
I have just received a new Berning ZH270 with the wire upgrade. Haven't received the cryoed tubes yet, Allan will be sending these in the next few weeks. I have about 6-7 hours on the amp and it is improving each hour. I am still scraping my jaw off the floor. With more break-in and cryoed tubes, I can't wait to hear the full potential of this amp. Maybe the wire upgrade makes a big difference, but I can't imagine anyone thinking this amp sounds lean. Not as syrupy as the ASL 845 I had, but the dynamics kill the 845. The bass simply ratttles the walls. Tubes aren't suppose to have this kind of bass!
But here is my reason for posting.
Have you guys noticed how long it takes for your Supratek to bloom after start-up. Mick says it is up to full speed in an hour, but my experience is that it takes a minimum of 4 hours, usually 5 for the bloom to happen. It sounds good upon start-up, but when the tubes bloom the soundstage expands considerably and the 3D, holographic images are amazing.
What is the general consensus as to how long you Supratek takes after start-up to open up and take on that life-like quality? |
Swampwalker - did it buzz when you were using the Berning amp or is this new - since the Joule arrived?
So.. let me see if I have this right, the AMP is buzzing? not the speakers? |
Bob- I probably will be selling it soon. I will need to figure out what is going on with the Syrah first. If it has to go "down under" I may hold onto it a while. My general comment is that the Berning is more neutral but the Joule is more emotional. Obviously a major diff in MSRP. I have not gotten the silver wire upgrade on the Berning, nor do I have the Stereovox cables that others rave about. Right now I will probably stick with the Joule, but based on bang for the buck (esp. if you are buying new) the Berning is quite remarkable. |
Swampwalker,
Did you sell your Zh-270? How would you describe the differences between the Joule and the Berning?Bob |
I need your help guys. Anyone with technical expertise, please chime in. I have already sent an email to Mick. My Syrah seems to be inducing a buzz in my Joule Electra OTL amp. Not in the speakers, but in the amp itself. Loud enough to hear from 10' away. Starts as soon as the pre is energized and goes away when its shut off. Lifted the ground, no help. Muted the amp, no help. Swapped in my old Yammie C2a from 25 years ago, no buzzzz. Any ideas? Jud at Joule says he has no clue. |
I am wondering what the remote looks like on the Chenin. Is it a typical universal TV remote? Does it have any verbage that one would know it is part of a Supratek preamp? Bob |
I am wondering what the remote looks like on the Chenin. Is it a typical universal TV remote? Does it have any verbage that one would know it is part of a Supratek preamp? Bob |
Im thinking of upgrading my amps to VTL 450 or Parasound JC-1. I love the VTLs but cant help but wonder about the JC-1s considering the price and all the positive press they have received. Anyone out there have experience with these two amps with Chenin as pre.
Thanks |
Im thinking of upgrading my amps to VTL 450 or Parasound JC-1. I love the VTLs but cant help but wonder about the JC-1s considering the price and all the positive press they have received. Anyone out there have experience with these two amps with Chenin as pre.
Thanks |
Amandarae,
Thanks for the assistance. I did get an emailed version of the manual but it didn't specify what the inputs are. Thanks for clarifying it for me. I have been playing around with the gains settings and the best for me so far is high gain with some of the gain cut back on the 6 way switch on the back of the unit. I have only played the Chenin one evening though and that could change. I look forward to comparing notes with you since we have the same amp (H2O) and preamp. They were a magical pair on my first evening using them. Bob |
Baranyi,
I assume you do not have the manual.
Looking at the back of the preamp,
Phono Loading Slider Switch: Top to Bottom = 47k,1K, 100, and 10 Ohms respectively if your preamp is standard. Otherwise, you have to ask the original owner on what config he requested (values).
RCA's from left to right: Phono input (considered as input 1), then input 2, input 3, and input 4.
Next is Tape REC and then Tape Play. Then it's output 1 and output 2. Gain, then power.
For the front knobs, Left is Volume control, and Right is the selector switch with the ff setting as you move CW: phono, input 2, input3, input 4.
As for the power cord, I find it better to get a good regulator tube than a power cord. The regulator tube's impact to the preamp performance is instantaneous.
As far as I know, many owners use different tubes. It is difficult to pinpoint what the best tubes are for each position from previous posters/text but it is a little easier to determine which does not sound good as you read the thread. For example, RCA 5692's does not bring its magic on this preamp. So as the Tungsol 5881, etc. etc.
I use the "low" gain setting on mine.
congratulations! |
Larryrosen,
Congratulations on your choice. I think you can look forward to a VERY pleasant experience. I say this confidently as my sys. is quite similar to yours in many ways & the Supratek was a perfect match in mine. I too use a MC352 paired to a Chardonnay driving TDL Reference Studio Monitor 'M' . Are your B&W the Nautiluses ? I have heard the N802 & in many ways they sound similar to the TDL's. I too run everything in un-balanced mode. Have been leaning towards sigledriver / horn / 300B sys since of late. The Chardoanny performed admirably in this combination as well. So hang in there & keep counting the days.
Now if only Mick puts his mind to a 300B SET .....................
|
I was able for the first time to listen to my new Chenin that I bought from Audiogon last night. I feel that pictures really do not do this preamp justice because in person it is a visual knockout. It also sounds great and I only was able to listen to CD's last night. I can't wait to start spinning some vinyl again! I have a couple of questions that have come up since last night. I think there are about 8 inputs in the rear of the unit and only 4 settings for inputs on the front selector. Can someone inform me how this works? Secondly, what makes a greater difference tube rolling or a new power cable? I have seen many postings dealing with NOS tubes, Is there any consensus about which tubes are the best for these preamps? Which tubes make the greatest difference? Lastly, do most people use the high or low gain setting? Thanks in advance. Bob |
Cabernet users, I am expecting my pre-amp anywhere from now until the summer!, but I'd love to hear some feedback. Stock tubes, rolled tubes, how long a break in period. I am matching with a solid state mac 352 and driving B&W 802's. Balanced output? Mick seems to lean towards unbalanced. My speaker cables are 2 meter Granite audio 10awg copper, while my interconnects are the 577 silver. Playback is a Sony sa-xxxes sacd player. I'm dying for info as I wait. Thanks supratek users. |
Hello Vetterone. Thanks for the prompt reply.Due to this abberation being common to both units and through both the phono stage and the line, I think it would probably be the most logical to start with the rectifier and regulators in the power supply. A weak rectifier or mismatched halfs of a full wave rectifier can have a profound effect on both the line and phono and can indeed demonstrate the characteristics that Patrick is alluding to. Can you test your rectifiers and tell me what rectifier you are using [5ar4, 5z4,5u4,5v4?? etc]as well as regulation tubes. Do you have any spare rectifiers around you can substitute? The regulation tubes are not likley the culprit here unless they are very weak or grossly mismatched as they do not have much influence on the tone per sey,but... rather more with spacial cues and air in the soundscape. Are you experiencing any woofer pumping in the phono stage? Try turning up the gain in the phono "Without" cueing the record and observe the reaction of the woofers. Is it a thinness that may be highlighting the upper midrange/treble range? Sorry to ask so many questions here sir, but persevere here and I am sure we can get to the bottom of it in time for Lugnut to entertain his guests. cheers David |
Hi, Ecclectique, both amps use the 417a/6GK5 or 6FQ5 tubes. I am pretty sure it is not the phono stage that is causing the problem. The first amp went bad in the line stage functions too. It acted the same for the phono as well as the pre amp functions.
Having two Syrahs with the same problem would make me think it is something we did or another problem with both of our systems. We have spent a lot of time ruling that out.
Remember, the first Syrah sounded wonderful in both systems, and for over a year.
Thanks for your time and responses. |
Don't think I'm not anxious to answer these questions and get some input but I've got a really busy day going. Company is arriving today for a weeks stay. I don't have the tube layout memorized. Maybe Steve will post about the two preamps and their minor differences. One point to consider is that in the other system with a 901 cartridge it sounded bad too. In both systems and with both cartridges it had, at one time, sounded as wonderful as this thread talks about. Anyway, the factory loading spec for my cartridge is 47K. Again, this cartridge (same one I have) is one that Mick uses. |
Hi Patrick. Yes, sounds like a classic case of phono overload to me too. Are both Syrah's using the same tube topology in the phono stage. Some used a combo of the 6j5 and 417a/5842 and others with a 6dj8/6j6. Are there any gain options on them ei: high and low. You mentioned you are using a high output mc... what is the manufacturers loading recommendation? |
Amandarae,
No, no step up transformer involved. I emailed Mick about my specific cartridge and he said no problem using it as that's the same cartridge he uses. It does sound like an overloaded phono stage to my ears. No difference between channels either. I'll try to explain in slightly different words what's going on. It sounds okay from initial play until the unit warms up for about 45 minutes. Then the sibilance sets in and gets worse, pretty quickly (5 minutes or so), until the sibilance is so pronounced it effects everything which sounds like distortion to me. |
Patrick,
Sorry to hear your trouble. I am no expert but would like to offer my thoughts as I have the Chenin. Assuming that you already replaced the tubes in your Syrah, my question is:
1.) Are you using a step up tranny?
If so, please bear in mind that the Syrah can only take 2.5 mV input max. Unless your cart is 0.5 mV and below and your setting is 1:5, then you will have a problem. I know this because I tried with my Shelter 901 at 1:5 setting.
2.)When you said "distortion", does it have a symptom like one channel cutting out as well?
Because this is exactly what happened to mine everytime a tranny is connected to it.
3.) With the tranny, does it get better at say 100 Ohms setting instead of the 47k on the Syrah? Also, if you do not use a tranny, do you hear the same symptoms (disortion)at the 47k, 1K, and so on (depending on your cart)?
If so, you are definitely overloading the phono section.
Hope this helps. |
I need some help. As many of you know I've been given a Syrah for an extended loan because of some health issues I'm facing. The preamp that was to become the loaner developed a problem and we have tried to troubleshoot via email with Mick rather than going through the lost time and expense of shipping it back to Australia. He has had us take readings from various locations internal to the preamp and everything tests fine. We've rolled so many expensive tubes that it cannot possibly be a tube issue. It has been in two systems in which it operated perfectly but now is unlistenable.
My friend is so dedicated to me having a Syrah in my system that he bought another one here on Audiogon. It has the same issues. Here's the best description I can give you. Keep in mind that with my system I have no other source but analog.
When the preamp is turned on and you first play it after about five minutes of warm up it sounds okay but like it needs a little more time to warm up. Very listenable but not stellar. After about ten minutes the sound improves and is very enjoyable (but not nearly what I remember when I had it in my system a year ago) for until about 45 minutes of operation. Sibilance starts creeping into the recording and becomes so pronounced in quick fashion as to sound like distortion.
I use a high output moving coil which is loaded at 47k. When this sibilanc/distortion comes in and I change the loading to 10 ohm it actually makes the recording sound much better but is still, IMO, unlistenable.
I discoverd this on the second preamp after the Daytona race yesterday. This new (used) preamp had been hooked up to my system for about a day although I hadn't spent any time with it until after the race. So, here I sit, the recipent of some of the most thoughtful kindness I've ever had bestowed on me and feeling horrible. My friend has a boatload of money tied up in two preamps that are at my house in an unusable condition. Anyone have any ideas short of crating them up and sending them back to Mick?
You can do a member search of Vetterone and see his system. At one point the Syrah bettered his DCC2 as a preamp in his system and by a fair margin. My system consists of an LP12/Ittok/BPS source, Ridge Street interconnects, LK100 amps with Aktiv cards, Ridge Street speaker cables and Aktiv Linn Keilidh's. My Audible Illusions Modulus II and Linn Wakonda preamps sound way better than either of these Syrah's which is really depressing. |
Jazzdude - My goal is to have a system that is as transparent as possible, wide & deep soundstage and with lots of air. Neutrality is subjective and I'm not going into that. So far my current setup has met these requirements. BTW, I'm glad we have the same findings.
Cheers,
Kenji |
Ongkaku - IMO 'no preamp'/passive preamp is the best reference for determining neutrality and transparency of a component. Your findings are similar to mine. This is the big reason I haven't replaced the volume pot or otherwise modded my supratek. For me and my system I am not convinced that the difference will be worth it. But I am very happy for those who replaced the volume pot and were pleased with the result. |
Jazzdude,
I had tried comparing my passive preamp vs.connecting the CD player directly to the poweramp. Both setups were very transparent but the CD direct setup had a slight edge over the passive pre. When the Cabernet was in the chain, I did not feel any loss of details and it was as transparent as the CD direct setup, but the good part was it sounded like a super passive pre with steroid (and lots of PRAT, too).
BTW, I am using APL SACD-1000 as my source.
As far as my listening experince goes, I am listening to MUSIC now. The Cabernet really brings out the emotion of a well recorded CD. Too bad the PX4 could not be replaced but look at the brigther side, you save more money to buy CDs. I did ask Mick to change my power unit to accept 300B's as well. Mick said the 300B's only give you a different sound and not necessary "better". Ask the Man if you would like to know more. All in all I'm happy with the TJPX4 tubes that I bought a backup pair recenlty.
Cheers,
Kenji |
has anyone read the Jan 05 6moons review of the Sauvignon? |
Hey Dean... we used FedEx Intl Economy Air.. took about 2 days, but man it was pricey. Worth it though, I'd rather have something arrive safe, and be trackable, then to have it get lost in customs. The unit was mine, so it was completely broken in, and in terms of synergizing, maybe it was bad synergy? but I feel that a good preamp should make any system better, no? |
Wow, Dennis_the_menace, he already has your Syrah in his system? Did you fly it over to Canada for him? Hahah. I wonder if he allowed for adequate break in and synergizing?
But indeed, it is helpful to hear other perspectives. |
So, I sold my Syrah, w/ NOS tubes, and the receiver (a really great guy), w/ Avantguard Duos, Audiomeca Mephisto, custom 300b amp, said that in his system, the Syrah was clearly beaten out by the Audioprism Mantissa. Although he said the Syrah was very open and transparent, he said the soundstage was smaller, and less focused. In fact, he said his BAT 50Se also beat the Syrah, with the Audioprism beating them all.
How's that for reality check!! |
Ongkaku - RE: the stock TJ PX4 tubes are really really transparent!
Thats really good news because there are no tube rolling alternatives for that tube.
I am glad that you are pleased. Tell us about your listening experience when you get the chance. I know you'd rather be listening than typing.
FWIW - someone told me that Mick would build the cabernet with the we300b if requested. But I am certain you would have to buy the tubes beforehand and ship them to Mick before he started on the order. In a lot of ways the we300b would be a really good tube to work with. There is a good supply of NOS tubes, and the UX4 socket is easy to get also. Westrex is currently manufacturing the we300b using the old western electric facilities. The we300b is a very highly regarded tube. The only downside is they are expensive. |
Hi Gang, I changed the stock 6SN7's in my Cabernet yesterday with CV 1988 (6SN7 GTY) tubes. All I can say is WOW ! I have yet to change the Genalux KT 66 to NU 350B even though the 350B's are lying next to the preamp. Maybe I am too patient according to my buddy but that is the fun part of it. The 350B's are kinda like forbidden fruit....OK, back to listening to music again!
BTW, the stock TJ PX4 tubes are really really transparent!
Cheers,
Kenji |
Hi Larry,
Mick answered my e-mail last night. I was checking on my Cortese. Mick says it will be a while yet. |
.
Slowhand,
.
Give Mick a quick call (good time is around 8:00 - 10:00 PM EST time). You can get all your answers in a couple of minutes. Just check your LD phone rate to Australia before calling. I just spoke with him about 5 minutes ago.
.
I was sending him emails thinking he was getting them and he was wondering why he had not heard from me. Try emailing him at mick@supratek.biz (instead of supra@supratek.biz) or call him - 011 - 61 8 9 757 9786
.
Rgds,
Larry |
I traded e-mails with him during the early part of this week. I asked him about the production time for a Chenin and he answered me fairly quickly. |
Has anyone spoke to Mick lately. I e-mailed him last week, but no reply. Maybe he is on holiday. |
hey Amandarae,a banquet hall,,i guess i could rent it out to fund my audio purchases!is anyone using a Supratek preamp and poweramp? |
May I suggest a banquet hall?
Just kidding of course! |
Larry,LOL,actually ill be shopping for a great listening room with a bedroom and bathroom attached,,,,and no nieghbors within 50 yards,ended up buying a VPI Scout,ill reread this tread tonight to find a good supplier for the inevidable tube rolling ,,cheers |
.
Ray,
.
Housing is highly overated, buy more audio stuff.....
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
Larry,i am going to TRY to not buy any more audio stuff for a while,to save for a house,,in the future ill upgrade my speakers and CDP,,maybe a Supratek power amp!! |
.
Ray,
.
What's next ? Perhaps that Teres you were contemplating about a year ago ?
.
Do let us all know when you get your new Chenin in and how you like it?
.
Larry - Congrats on your Cabernet. I am quite sure you will be delighted with your decision. Be patient with the break in.
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
Ecclectique,
I, for sure, will be eagerly awaiting about your "voicing with NOS tubes" post here in the near future. Like you, I have some notes on my Chenin with various tubes I tried and will like to know and confirm if I am tone deaf or not!:)
regards |
Hey Larry and Raytheprinter. Congrats on your decision. As the gang here is saying... you will be duly rewarded. I intend on posting an update on the various nos tube options with respect the voicing of the cortese and the syra[chenin]in the very near future. cheers David |
The wait is the worst of it. That email from Mick saying that it is ready to go out the door is like Christmas morning. I have been living with my Chenin since Thanksgiving, and it has truely been a revelation. It has caused me to rethink a couple of issues in my system: I now have a pair of tube amps in for audition, and now that they are getting dialed in to the Chenin, I am amazed at the detail the phono stage sends down the wire to the amps.
As a word of caution: Mick ships to the US via FedEx. Coming from Australia, his products hit our shores in Anchorage, Alaska to clear customs. Be prepared for a snag/delay of several days for them to clear. One way to avoid the delay is to have an importer account with FedEx, or make sure that Mick includeds your SS# and phone # in the shipping manifest before your preamps ever leave Margaret River. Mine languished in customs for 4 days (on a 3 day shipping route) until I called FedEx in Memphis, gave them my SS# and asked that they enter it into the system and ensure that it was available to customs officials in Anchorage. Keep in mind that a customs/duty invoice from FedEx will arrive at your doorstep a couple of weeks after the preamp arrives. Mine was for 152.00, on top of the 130.00 for shipping.
Also keep in mind that pictures in no way do these preamps justice. The fit and finish, workmanship, and drop dead good looks are SOTA. Second only to their sound quality. |
thanks Larry,i think im mentally prepared for the wait,,,the guys at work think im nuts,,ive got 2 pictures hanging in my locker at work,,my power amp and a Chardonney,,,ill most likely spend my time researching NOS tubes and the best places to purchase them,, |
Due to all the great discussion's here, I ordered a Cabernet from Mick last month. I hope by the time summer is here, I'll be in Audio Nirvana breaking in one of Mick's masterpieces. Thanks all and I'll keep the thread up to date with my experience! |
.
Ray,
.
Great move and one that you won't regret. Remember when you get your Chardonnay(and it will be a while), give it a good 200 hours of break in before you roll any tubes and know that it will improve dramatically as the hours go by.
.
Congratulations,
Larry
. |
hey guys ,i just sent my deposit for my Chardonney,,,!!YESSS |
Hi:
I am also interested in a pair of 6F6s. Also, I have noticed that your are selling your Syrah. Any other tube you are looking to sell as well (6SN7s, 5AR4s)? I have a Chenin. Thank you very much for your time. Pablo. |
Dilly, if you need some 6f6g's, email me.
Joe |
