Yes, I like my modded SL1200G with Triplanar arm. I also like my Kuzma TT. Two different sounds. Different TTs, arms, cartridges. I use a Manley Steelhead as phonostage for both.
As for the LP12, It looks to be in decent condition. If someone could do it for local pickup, even better. The upgrade path, for the Linn is not real spendy at first.
To really answer your question; We all like a change now and then. Two TTs provide that change for me.
nkonor, I detect a mixed message in your post. If there is "no going back", once one has purchased a good DD turntable, then why on earth should everyone own one of each? And why should a current buyer "snatch up" the LP12, therefore?
Just my opinion, 20 years ago, who thought vinyl would still be alive ? Now we have new TTs popping up all the time and more reissues on better vinyl formulations. Vinyl was supposed to be dead.
I think, everyone into vinyl, should have at least 2 TTs. One belt drive and one direct drive. Just converted to DD in April of 2018. There is no going back. I see a LP12 for 2250.00- current bid 1901.00. I would snatch this up if I did't already have one.The Technics 1200G and 1200GR are the best value in new DD TTs right now.
We have more used record stores selling new and used vinyl in Chicago than we had 10years ago. Plenty of very good TTs on the used market for decent prices. Support a dealer that can help you set it up before we lose all of them.
No reason, not to take the plunge into vinyl.This is the new Golden Age of Vinyl.
Technics "junkers" have speed control better than many other manufacturer's expensive offerings. Some kind of snobbery me thinks in these kind of threads.
the thing is with the 1200G, vintage moving magnet cartridges on this table sound better than setups costing in excess of 10K. You can use MC cartridges on the arm but the older MM cartrs really shine on this table to the point that I do not desire the 3k and above cartridges anymore. Its that good.
Thank you johnnyb53 for explaining the design and charter of the 1200 series tables as a high end machine. It was never designed to be a DJ table, it just happened to have yet a second application due to its durability and functionality. In fact DJ’ing would never have evolved along with the music if it weren’t for the 1200’s features. The Japanese had no designs on "disco" music when these were initially made. The direct drive lent a tunable feature for aspiring musicians. I know I’m repeating what you said above but it needs to be restated. Also, there is nothing wrong with the arm. The bearings, shape and materials are all top notch; the arm is among the finest ever manufactured.
The LP12 and its Ariston RD cousins set the standard for belt drive TTs back about 40 years ago! But Time moves on ... I still have 'em and use 'em! And I have an older 1200 too! They all sound excellent!
@ grossman616-- your mention of the Peppermint lounge takes me back,, unfortunately I was a state away which should not of stopped me from going of course. The Lounge had all this cred and party flavor going for it back in the day and many who wanted to go probably didnt as well. I had to settle for going to Ripley NY for the bars with music et al just over the PA border Funny how your name reminded me of a Grossman that gradated the year I did in 63' Wouldnt it be a small world indeed if you were the same person and if your first name is Barry than its even more of a 6 degrees of separation event. lol.
Peter, Will your collar work on older Triplanars, manufactured by Herb Papier? I think the newest TPs have a thicker VTA pillar (based in part on looking at your own photos of your gizmo mounted on a modern TP).
The SL1200mkII becabe a DJ turntable because of the +/- 8% pitch control fader, none of the mentioned models has it.
The poor isolation and bass feedback is the biggest problem of the SL1200mkII when it’s near the very loud soundsystem with powerful subs, but the best solution to get rid of it is Isonoe Footers
But for home use it is not a problem. Without significant upgrade this model is a dark sounding turntable, nothing special. After upgrade it is much better, but nowhere near the finest SP-10mkII (the SL1600 and related models you have mentioned are just a toys compared to the SP-10mkII).
@grossman616 Which Peppermint Lounde, not the original which was opened in the 60’s ?
I was a DJ back in the day at the Peppermint Lounge in NYC. We had a pair of SL 1200's ( like the rest of the world) and they were bullet proof. They had Stanton 681- EEE carts that could take the riggers of being back cued and the challenging environment of Dance Clubs. The 1200's always worked, never broke down or gave me any problems what so ever. I never listened to them other than at the club either over the house system (lots and lots of Crown amps and I forget what speakers) or headphones in the booth so I can not give you real feedback on how they sound BUT they were (are) a well made pro-level piece of gear.
There was a legit point though, how the brand has become tarnished by all the hacks and rapper “DJs” that don’t have a clue about why they think they need a pair of SL-1200mk2 turntables to make terrible noise with. Truth is that the esteemed SL-1200mk2 is not even what most morons think it is. Not that it’s a bad turntable, but it is the poor cousin of the SL-1600mk2 / SL-1700mk2 / SL-1800mk2, all of which provided the SL-1200mk2 with its tonearm, motor, platter and a few other odd bits. The truth is the SL-1200mk2 with its rubber base has nowhere near the isolation of the more sophisticated SL-1600mk2 / SL-1700mk2 / SL- 1800mk2. What is popular opinion, is often misinformation. The cult status of the SL-1200mk2 a good example.
Yup, as I promoted earlier in the thread, it seemed obvious what the intention was by the OP. I'm hoping for fewer "hot potatoes" thrown into the middle of the room and then run like hell, pop the corn and sit back and watch the pyrotechnics. Reminds me of Trash Can Man in The Stand. The next time I see pawlowski6132 initiate a thread, I will remind members of this one.
I hope most here noticed the OP was a "hit and run" artist. No comments on the replies one way or another. Not even a thank you for the information offered. So are they "missing" all the answers? All this a sure sign of a troll in my view.
Just the same, it did stimulate several interesting replies. ;^)
Ok, what am I missing? When I hear Technics turntables, I think Craigslist and DJ tables. What am I missing?
I’ll tell you what you’re *not* missing--too much Kool-Aid--Kool-Aid from high end audio snobs, Kool-Aid from belt-drive snobs and from their chief missionary and evangelist, Ivor Tiefenbrun, who traveled the world demonstrating his rigged A/B tests between SL1200s and his Linn belt-drive turntables. His efforts caught on among cottage industry high-end loyalists and a new dogma was born.
It appears to me that he saw the direct drive designs as a threat to the UK-based turntable cottage industry, which only needed an over-the-counter AC motor, a rubber band, a machined platter and a plinth. Oh, and a tonearm from somebody.
There was only one way to do direct drive and that was with a lot of capital and high precision manufacturing resources.
When the SL1200 came out, it was marketed and perceived as an affordable high end turntable, with nearly the torque of an idler-drive turntable but much lower noise. The SL1200 retailed at $350 in 1975, which translates to $1800 in 2018 money.
The adjustable pitch control was on the original models, and *not* for dance clubs, which barely existed at the time. It was a high end feature for audiophile musicians who wanted to play back LPs at the correct pitch (such as Side One of Miles Davis’s "Kind of Blue") and play fixed pitch instruments such as piano, vibraphone, and marimba along with recordings of mistuned instruments. You can’t tune a vibraphone or marimba to match pitches with mistuned instruments, and it takes half a day to do it with a piano--assuming you have the training and skill to do it.
Well, lo and behold, it turned out that the SL1200 had some desirable features for DJ-ing: It had high torque like the idler drives they had been using, which translates into a more consitent relentless beat for dance music; it spins up for the next song almost as fast as idler drive, it has a much lower noise floor than idler drive turntables (I swear, I could hear idler-sourced turntable rumble on FM broadcasts). And it has a strong, propulsive bass which makes it easier to dance to the music. This was a happy accident, not a targeted marketing plan, at least until the MkII.
Once the dance club market adopted the SL1200, Technics designed the MkII with some features attractive to the dance market, such as big sliders (instead of tiny knobs) for beat and pitch matching. The direct drive with free-floating platter already had an advantage over idler drive for scratching. You can’t scratch idler drive when the idler is engaged and you can’t scratch belt drive at all. Nor is belt drive propulsive enough for dancing. So just because the Technics was *adopted* by the dance club industry does not mean it was worthless for its original purpose.
And just because it became popular doesn’t mean it was flimsy and cheaply built. Quite the contrary. If you see them show up on Craigslist, it’s because they’ve been played and abused to near death, and yet are still functional with some parts and maintenance. The owners sell their old ones at shockingly durable after-market prices and replace them with new ones.
The bearings in the Triplanar may be the hardest available, however the VTA tower is a little "loose" dont you think.
That surprised me so I just took a look. Even with the set screw on the side of the tower perfectly loose, there was no play. So, no, I don't think its at all loose.
@chakster The Reed looks nice but its unlikely to have bearings as hard as those in the Triplanar, who has a security clearance to obtain the bearings they use (the bearing is the hardest metal bearing made anywhere; and Triplanar got investigated by the Department of Homeland Security because they use more of these bearings than Boeing Aerospace). Softer bearings tend to blunt with use; this causes the arm to have a limited lifespan (mysteriously goes out of adjustment over time). The VTA tower on the Reed appears to be a copy of that of the Triplanar, which first showed that technology several decades ago. But the thing that bothers me is the location of the bearings- they aren't in the plane of the LP surface, and while this makes the arm easier to build, it also means that tracking force will be lessened with bass notes and warp. Imagine two people carrying a couch; if going up stairs the one below carries more weight. If on level ground both weights are the same and vary only slightly on uneven ground. This allows for more consistent tracking force.
I like the azimuth adjustment- the Triplanar has that as well. The removable arm tube and cartridge shell is also nice- except that when you are dealing with voltages as small as they usually are with cartridges, the less mechanical connections between the cartridge and arm, the better.
I own a Prime and a Technics 1200GR. Each is on a separate system now so direct comparison is not possible; the 1200 is on the main system the Prime used to be on and uses a Dynavector P75 mkiii phono pre and the Prime uses a Parasound JC3+ phono pre. The speakers on the main system with the 1200 are Thiel CS2.4’s. Very revealing speakers, but the Technics is exemplary. I have no complaints.
As an aside: "FM radio is anything close to true HiFi?" With a really good tuner and an outside antenna mounted on the roof, FM can be very satisfying. Not the sound of a good analog rig or SACD or hi-res recordings, but still very listenable. Just my 2 cents.
A friend in Europe had arranged for one to go to a potential agent in Hong Kong and he knew I had a number of warped records so he arranged for me to have it first and I used it for 6 weeks. I flattened and heaps of records in that time and Relaxed a whole bunch of others. I wrote my review after that experience. I was so taken with the Relax function that I immediately ordered one from Europe. I also ordered some other equipment and the whole lot was meant to be bundled and sent to me. The FLAT has been paid for and sitting in Europe but there have been delays with the rest of the equipment. My model will not be the new one that you mention but one like I used before as it was bought way back. My understanding is that the efficacy of the old and new model is the same. From my experiences with the Relax function, as described in my thread, I am absolutely sold on it and cannot wait to get my AFI FLAT, hopefully in the next few months. There is no doubt to my ears and that of my friend’s as to the increase in SQ from this function regardless of whether the record is old or new and or perfectly flat.
I hope you get yours and would be most interested in your experience.
I wound up selling my Sota that had been factory freshened and VTA installed and really wanted to use it and the belt would keep coming off and I frankly did not like the full manual mode. At some point I bought a SL-1600 mk ii off of ebay and sent it to a refurbisher in TN. I think it was.. who has since passed. A weak link in the system is a nylon or plastic of some sort gear that is elemental to the arm operation .. I bought a Rega 3 with upgrades and used very briefly and found on ebay of all places this restorer of Technics who had the gear that I needed. I sent him the table and he fixed it and its back in operation --the only table in here.. Suffice to say,, Im not playing enough vinyl but then I just recently moved to a whole new area in Cali.. surrounded by fires these days although lucked out and not really in a critical area where fuel for fires is plentiful. Makes for some very hot weather after living near the ocean all these years in the bay area.
I was given a 1981 DD Technics by a co-worker 15 years ago. It's a Made in Japan marvel of ruggedness and quality. Not the last word in resolution or other audiophile traits, still a great deck to have around and the set-it-and-forget aspect is nice sometimes.
I think a lot of potential buyers are missing the fact that the new Technics turntables are re-designed from the ground up. They also benefit from advanced production methods and better quality control. If you don't read the fine print, it is understandable you may think the new turntables are just re-hashes of the old ones (which were actually quite good at the time - I had one that I used with my Dynaco tube equipment and horn-loaded speakers back in the day). Panasonic made a marketing decision to keep the turntables looking the same. This works great in Japan (maybe a larger hi-fi market than the U.S.), who are naturally quite proud of their "Made in Japan" products, just as many U.S. audiophiles enjoy "Made in the U.S.A." provenance. I will admit some prejudice when I looked at the new SL1200 G turntables, but was quickly convinced when I compared them to other offerings in the same price range.
Note: my prejudice was more about the "DJ" looks than where it was made – I am a globalist with speakers made in England, U.S. made amps, German wires and a Japanese turntable and cartridges.
There is a German firm ( The Link can be found on; " Outer ring- who uses and what are your findings" post by melm on 07-15-2018. )
I am going to pass on using an outer ring; Too futzy for me.
As I just posted to bluewolf; I am going to focus on Flat and Relaxed records next.
As "Ralph" has pointed out, the Triplanar bearings are in the plain of the record.I have a few used records that have long warps or a sudden edge warp. The Triplanar has been handling these with ease. I do have (1) record that has a sharp edge warp that does get a jump in the first couple of grooves out of the Triplanar, but that is it. I have been fussy about my records from the beginning. But even average flat records do have small undulations. Every tonearm must deal with these. I think making the tone arm cartridge combo work even less, even at the micro scale, gets us better SQ.
Flat records will have the best contact with the mat from the start. A mat and weight should effectively deal with groove resonances and give firm contact with the mat. Just my opinion.
I heard the speed control of the Technics within minutes; at Axpona 2016. I knew that I wanted this TT. The stock arm is good, but the Triplanar just brings the rig to a new level. I agree, piano is fantastic, bass is deeply defined and textured, images and spatial information are solid and layered.
I always had very good results with Technics Tables. I have owned several. Even the low end SL-D2 $120.)worked well. I would be curious to see how one sounds with a Higher end Cartridge.
Do you still have your AFI Flat? Do you still use it and like the results of the Relax function?
Rather than an outer ring; which being futzy to deal with, I have been looking at the AFI Flat again. A new improved model is due out soon.
No doubt in my mind that Flat records play and sound better. It is the Relax Function that I am most interested in. If you still have it and use it regularly; you have a lot of time and experience with it .
Would be very interested in your review / commentary on it.
With the title and put-down framing of its question, this to me is a provocative post especially given that this Analog forum has plenty of recent posts on the very good SQ and value proposition of a number of Technics turntables old and new. The OP would just have to scroll down a little to find them let alone use the simple search function. So I can only guess at the motives of the OP and on the circumstantial evidence they do not look positive.
I have never owned a Technics table but I have recently started reading threads here on Audiogon and I find them really refreshing, enjoyable & informative. People are passionate and talking about SQ and the great value proposition of these tables. And thanks to @audiofun on the "Upcoming Technics SP-10R" thread I learnt about SMPS and their detrimental effects on my hi-fi sound.
I can think of nothing better than products like some of the Technics tables appear to be that outperform tables at multiple prices, and all this with a household name Technics. I am a confessed reverse snob. When I am asked about my rig I do enjoy answering to those snobs that are in this hobby that I have Pioneer speakers and seeing quite a few people look down their noses at me. I am yet to hear any speaker that I would prefer to my Pioneer Exclusive 2404's. I was in a meeting a number of years ago with a "high-powered" NY banker who kept on staring at my tourbillon watch throughout the whole meeting. I ran into him after and he asked me what brand it was. It was with great delight that I told him that it was a stainless Seagull made by a master watchmaker in China and that it cost me US$3k new. He looked away in disgust having expected it to be a US$40k Swiss brand.
And for someone like me who has been in this hobby for decades and seen the death and rebirth of vinyl, and who has never been able to approach the overall SQ of my vinyl rig with digital, it is great to see Technics come back into the market with some well designed and priced gear and to know that this means that there are kids coming into this wonderful hobby that are appreciating SQ over convenience.
Technics tables got me back into vinyl and audio. I imagine I am not the only one.
A friend gave me an SL-220 about 6 years ago. I used it for a couple of years, and with a new belt, some dollar store plasticine inside, and a decent Grado 8MZ stylus on it, it sounded quite decent into a thrift store NAD 3020.
I will always have nice feelings when I see the Technics name, because of this. I still have a relatively modest system (Thorens TD160 with a Benz Micro Wood SL and Benz PP1 preamp) but to me it is cherished and sounds exquisite.
I own a 1600MK2, and vastly prefer it to any of the more expensive "audiophile" turntables I have previously owned. For whatever reason, the Technics SL** decks have a reputation in the "serious" home audio community of being low quality DJ fodder, whereas the reality is that, especially when modded with better suspending feet and a silicone arm damper trough, they sound fabulous and very audiophile, if you will. Direct drive gives you a real leg up compared with belt drive in terms of accuracy, particularly when you have a quartz motor. I have zero ambition to change decks at any time. And trust me I am very fussy and have a far more costly amp and speakers.
Always remember that the 1200 was developed as a hifi deck. It so transpired that DJs seized on the feature set.
I am using a ring that I made myself, following the example of a discontinued model. It is a constrained layer damped ring consisting of two .080" thick stainless steel layers that sandwich a .125" acrylic layer, all bonded using a more ductile cyanoacrylate glue (Loctite 480). I had the ring CNC machined from large squares that I bonded together. It is "one of a kind", to be sure, but it seems to work very well. It would be fun to compare it directly to the same ring sizing made simply from stainless steel alone (I will probably try this at some point), just to see if the damping addition matters much, because it does increase the hassle and expense of making one to add such layers.
I am using a Stillpoints Ultra 5 LP Isolator as my center weight, and my mat is a 5.5mm acrylic mat that sits on top of a 1.5mm foam silicone rubber for damping and adhesion to the platter surface. I really like the total combined affect, with the ring making the final adjustment that brought it all home. It seems that the ring just ensures that the LP surface is in nice contact with the mat so the mat can do its job of draining the energy from the needle's vibrations.
Placing a ring is futsy, no question; and you need a spot to store it safely between plays. My ring is not perfectly balanced, as its overall thickness varies by a range of .005" around the circle; but the direct drive of the Technics does not care one wit - - power to spare, by far, and the servo correction makes it steady, regardless, it seems. I hear tonal purity and sustain on piano and organ notes that I have never before heard on vinyl.
I thought that someone had a 1200G modded with a 12" Triplanar. Happy for both of us. It is a SOTA rig. I settled on a Oracle hard acrylic mat and a HRS 315 gram record weight. I have been leery of using an outer ring. Would you share what you are using? Is it easy to use? I was diagnoised with an incurable disease in Sept 2017. Makes little tasks, seem almost insurmountable at times. Is it worth the extra effort? I could possibly use it on my "better" days.
I’ve been using a stock SL-1600 MK2 for over 30 years. I bought it while stationed in Germany back in the early 80's. I've considered upgrading the arm and cart, but lately, I've been doing more streaming than playing vinyl. While I love the sound of vinyl, streaming from Tidal and Jazz Radio.com is a lot easier.
Yes, Ralph modded mine, too, for a Triplanar U12. I have worked out the mat issues, center weight, and peripheral ring - - now it sings so neutrally that it is just music from the tape, it seems to my ears.
Technics, like all other manufacturers in it’s time, made some tables for mass market. Unless you’re new to this hobby (or this planet), you should remember the famous SP10 series of tables. The new 1200 line has been well-reviewed, and universally praised. Sure, the old 1200 was a favorite of DJs but how do you think it got such a strong following?
P.S. Let's drop the political references and avoid the risk of driving more members from this site.
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