I just happened to come across my post from nearly 2 years ago. I had forgotten that I bough the SE version before. Guess what? I just bought it again today. However, I expect different results. Let me tell you why.
I discovered that one of my speaker cables (and I'm not saying which) - and this after 3 years(!) and many thousands of dollars in changes in the system later - was a version made by the manufacturer for the Far East, which, apparently, has different sonic ...perspectives. I was frustrated by the inability of the system in general to sound A) powerful in the midbass in particular, and, keep in mind, I had owned this EXACT same speaker cable back around 2004. I didn't keep the Bryston because I didn't hear what everyone was raving about: sold it a couple of months after I bought it. Sold a LOT of stuff, and replaced it with other things.
About 9 months ago, I saw that someone was trading a version of the speaker cable that was physically different-looking than the one I had. By this point, I had changed - literally - every single component, in an effort to recapture the musical sonics of the system around 2004 - to no avail. Finally, my background training kicked in and I thought, hmmm....the only thing I haven't changed is the speaker cable. Thinking I had nothing to lose, I offered a trade to the audio store that was selling the cables (although they looked slightly different than the originals I had) - and they accepted. I got the cables, put them into the system, turned it on and - VOILA! The sound, although not as powerful as my original, larger gauge cables, had that magic. The bass was fuller and richer. I was pissed all to hell and back! Over 10K later, and it had been the speaker cables killing the sound all the time. To say I was angry was an understatement, and I grilled the manufacturer to the point that they dreaded hearing who was calling. It turned out the designer had found, after the design, that the cables sounded different (the person I spoke to was fairly high up in the organization and had asked the history of the different versions of the cable) and the designer said that the Orient had certain "biases" about size, shape and color, so he redesigned it, but felt that it "wrecked" (my word, but that's an accurate synonym) the sound, so he went back to the original size, shape and color.
The lesson: sometimes it's not THE equipment that doesn't bring out the best of the sonics: it's YOUR equipment. And this could not be called "system synergy," by the way. Clearly, the speaker cable killed off differences in ALL the components, which is probably why the Bryston didn't knock my socks off. Just goes to show: when in doubt try it in a completely different system. Not yours, not in your house, not in your ANYTHING. Move it somewhere else, even your audio dealer's, and get a fix on what sounds better and what sounds worse.
I am much more optimistic this time |
high tubegroover:
i made an error the cd player i was thinkong of was the virtue audio m1, also reviewed by henry wilkenson on audiophilia.com, list price is $699. it may not be to your taste. read the review carefully. |
I see this thread is still continuing, so that's a good thing.
I have had the Oppo for not quite a week now, and called customer service today to inquire about the break in time. The rep said they didn't recommend any break-in time. I thought, he is not aware of the difference that break-in can make.
I'm using, for the moment, an Odyssey Khartago amp, Nordost interconnectrs (Tyr) and several speaker systems: Nolas (circa 2004) Sound Dynamics RTS-3s. I have others, but haven't hooked them up yet. My First Sound Presence -- nearly a Mk. II (I had it upgraded, but not all at once: I like to hear the improvements) will arrive tomorrow, so I'm going direct from the Oppo to the Khartago.
I haven't been thrilled with the sound, but I believe some components need break-in.
So far, the bass is...ok, but not distinct in the midbass. Upper bass (drums, marching and otherwise) are taut, but lacking weight.
Rhythm: com-ci, com-ca so far. Midrange....decent, but it certainly is not as saturated at my old JVC XLZ-1010TN CD player. I also have an Arcam FMJ 23, a Bryston BDA-1, an Arcam DVD 27, and a couple of others, including a SACD. I had a Cambridge, but it was too "polite" sounding for me, so I sold it after 2 years. I also have Hurricane amps, Audience AR 2-T (teflon version) conditioner and a Quantum line unit (Nordost distributes it), Shunyata power cords, CX series, Shunyata and Alpha Goertz cables (Divinity series for the Goertz, Andromeda for the Shunyata), so I know how "powerful" the music can -- and should -- sound.
My conclusion so far is that the Oppo needs a LOT of break-in. It's had 5 days. It's listenable, but that's it. Believe me, I want to love it, but even so, I bought it for my SO, who lives in California, so I'm breaking it in for him. I would imagine there should start being large improvements within the next week, but right now.....it's just nice.
HOWEVER, Christ Martens of TAS, whose writings I've followed, says it ranks up among 4k players, so I'm pretty sure I am not getting anywhere near the full capability of the player. I'm just giving you a baseline.
Oh right: the highs are very clear, but the ambience retrieval is lacking, and the sound is still "stiff" as in not-liquid in the way real music is. With real music, the sound just wafts thru the air (in a good hall: in a bad one, it sounds as though there are no harmonics, due to a lack of good acoustics).
I'm rooting for the Oppo, but I'll need to be patient. The Khartago was somewhat the same, although it's strong suit is its clarity, not its liquidity, and it, too, is a little bit lightweight, compared, especially to the Hurricanes.
We'll see! |
Thanks Mystang, the Sony keeps on coming up at this price point. I'll have to check it out.
Mr. Tennis I checked out the review of the Audia Flight CD 3. At 3.9K it is a bit too pricey for me to consider. Beautiful and elegant design though. It seems there might be considerably more options at that price point. I'm more interested in keeping this to less than 1.5K. Thanks for your input, it is appreciated! |
Tubegroover
I purchased an oppo 83SE a mounth ago and just got a Sony 5400es two days ago. For the $ rember that the Oppo does it all DVD BR CD SACD and more so as a all in one player with state fo the art video and great audio it's really hard to beat. The transport is a little crude compared to the silks smooth Sony.
If all you want is CD and SACD play back then the Sony is worth the extra $. I have only listened to the Sony for about 10 hours and the Oppo for about 60 hours.From what I have read the Sony needs several hundred hours to come on full song.
Haveing said that out of the box I like the Sony a little better and build quality is superior to the Oppo.
Either way both are well worth their MSRP. |
Thanks Mr. Tennis
I have really been out of the loop with cd playback and have a dinosaur of a digital front end with an other wise highly evolved system. My impression compared to my own jvc 1050 cd transport/Bel Canto DAC 1.1 set-up was that harmonic textures were more believable and it wasn't subtle I probably need to get out more it seems!
I have had 2 Sony products over the years a 620ES from the late 80's which was highly regarded but was in the digital abyss of the time. Numerous changes over the years with minimal success to the point I am at currently, about 8 years. I later tried the Sony DVP-S9000ES and found it too smooth, boring lacking the dynamic energy of the JVC/Bel-Canto and overall not musically involving on redbook. I am a bit apprehensive of Sony other than the superlative build quality. What about the Sony 5400? Is this the best alternative in this price range? I'm apprehensive in spending too much for digital as it it seems to be a too much of a moving target but I really want to improve my front end. Just thought the Oppo seemed a great value at its price. |
hi tubegroover:
there are several players in the price range. how about audia flight ?a review of this player is on audiophilia.com.
i don't agree with your assessment of the oppo. i think it is a bit heavy in the treble. what about the sony 5400, for a few hundred dollars more ? |
"Finding yourself listening to the music instead of the sound of the player is a good sign"
Which was what just what happened this morning when an audio friend who just purchased a used OPPO BDP-83SE and was so excited he brought it down to my place for a quick listen. What was IMMEDIATELY apparent is that this unit just captures the harmonics of the music in such a stunning way that it took my breath away. I can't imagine, at least in that performance area, that it can get too much better in the here and now. Bass weight was a bit lacking but other than that I was quite impressed at what is possible in this price range, anyone know of anything? |
i own an oppo 83 se. i would say it is an ok player that perhaps has a slight imbalance in the upper frequencies. replacing power cords and carefully selecting interconnects may mitigate but probably not eliminate the problem.
i have not heard any mods to the unit. |
Mphnkns
Are you describing the Cambridge 840C or the Oppo 83SE? I thought you were describing the Cambridge 840C, because you just received your Oppo 83SE and are waiting for it to break in [presumably before commenting on its sound]. However, it seems that the next poster, Jp1208, thought you were describing the Oppo. |
Mphnkns, you are correct in the horns penetrating out into the room and the feeling of them being forward. But, if everything else is doing this then there is no depth and the sound becomes compressed. The Oppo has the dynamics and a lot of potential but is very suseptible to micro vibration and rfi. It is revealing but a little thin in the midrange and smallish stage as a stock unit. Modding the unit and adding nice cabling changes things drastically. I personally don't like syrupy and polite sounding cdp's. I would rather find a way to add a more full and lush midrange to a revealing player. No doubt the player has feeling and character and I can't say this regarding a lot of other cdp's. |
I received at 83SE. I'm posting to set my start date with it: tonight. I'll have to give it time.
I had the Cambridge 840C, incidentally. While I appreciated its clarity, it was "polite". The sound did not project forward as it does in a good hall in life. It was as though there were a force field around it. While I appreciate that, it's NOT how music sounds live. I have yet to hear a horn played that didn't project forward towards the audience. It was very low noise; however, music is not an academic exercise. It is feeling, it is power (the type of music being played allowed, of course) and it is rarely "contained" unless the composer wrote it so. Keep that in mind rather than "bass", "midrange" and treble comments. |
Hey Guy;
Learn any more about this?
I have same questions
Regards;
WolfieM |
Hi,
Not sure whether 16 or 24, but 88.2 via Oppo is confirmed. |
Extremephone,
At what bit rate does DSD converse to? Is it 16/88.2 or 24/88.2? |
No machine can output SACD (DSD) signal through S/PDIF, however, they can be sent through HDMI.
However, the Oppo allows one to convert DSD to PCM and then output via the HDMI. There are some products that converts HDMI LPCM signal into an S/PDIF signal, and with thos gadget, you may be able to retrieve the DSD signal.
With the Oppo, the DSD conversion to PCM resulted in an 88.2kHz signal. |
"As I can't output SACD's to the 840C DAC, this is what I wanted the most out of the upgrade. It has me looking at buying SACD's again."
Please help me understand above statement. Are you saying that with the old 83 you couldn't output SACD's to the 840C DAC...
...but with the 83SE you can output SACD's to the 840C DAC?
I hadn't thought outputting SACDs was possible, but I thought I read that the 83SE has some method of converting SACD to a signal that can go thru digital coax, etc...is that possible? If not, what did you mean about "being interested in buying SACD's again?"
Also, point well taken that you really prefer the CA unit. We each have our favorite DAC or CDP. However, would you say that - to a lesser degree - the Oppo also has a warm sound, or is Oppo sort of lean and perhaps analytical on CDs?
Thanks! |
Thanks Jimmm18 really helpful and infomative review. |
Hi All
Sorry to take so long to get back to you on the player. I have now had it 2 weeks. No idea the number of hours but the sound seems to have stabilized.
After much listening I think I have a handle 83se. Compared to the standard 83 the soundstage is deeper and more open, the sound of the voices and instruments sound more real, less electronicy. The regular 83 sounds like an ok cheap cd/dvd player to me. When it got loud it sounded a bit harsh. The bass was kinda mushy and lack rhythm and pace.
In the past I wouldn't listen to the 83 on its own I would just push the audio out the digital coax and listen the 840C. Now if I put a CD into the 83se I don't want to jump and change it. It is musical, a bit forward but engaging. I was listening to Lucinda "Williams Car Wheels on a Gravel road". I just sat and listened to track after track. Her voice had all the emotion, the guitars sounded real with the leading edges having that punch a live electric guitar has.
On my SACD and DVD music it sounds very good as well but I have never heard a stand alone SACD player. I know the standard 83 sounded better than my Marantz 7600 and the SE sounds much better on SACD/DVD than the standard one. As I can't output SACD's to the 840C DAC, this is what I wanted the most out of the upgrade. It has me looking at buying SACD's again. (just ordered Richard and Linda Thompson's "Turn out the Lights" didnt even know they made it on SACD) By the way Dylan's "Blood on the tracks" hybrid SACD sounds horrible. Very very bright. But I enjoyed my Peter Gabriel "Live" album from the mid eighties. More dynamic than the record.
Now compared to the 840C, no contest. On cd's the CA unit is just more real sounding. First while using the balanced outs there is less of the electronic background noise, the type of stuff you don't notice till it goes away. Then the voices and instruments are more emotional and vivid. Each instrument is more distinct but also more part of the whole.
I think this means the player is more detailed. There is a warmth to the 840C that is not thick but just clear. You have to understand that this was the first CD player that I could enjoy as much as I do vinyl. It has that groundedness that Analog has, like you can feel the foundation beneath the music.
Also, the bass performance is amazing me these days. Not sure if this was switching to the balanced outputs or upgrading the power cable on my VAC amp but the dynamics are powerful. There is more of a sense of the band playing together. The detail in the bass, how the notes are hit, strings are bent, bass runs are distinct... I just have trouble describing it but once heard...I just never heard that from my system before so I have been noticing it a lot.
Anyway this is about the 83SE. I like it. On CD's I listen to 840C but for DVD's and SACD I can listen to it without wishing I was listening to the 840C. On Hybrid CD's I listen to the 83SE as it is as enjoyable as playing the cd on the 840C. Not sure if it is better but I want to listen to more of my hirez music. DVD's still sound a little better using the DAC on the 840C but it less obvious. I seem to like which ever one I am listening to at the moment. But the 840C is more precise, a bit warmer with a deeper soundstage. Not as important when watching a dvd, but the Who's"Tommy" still sounded better through the DAC. That bass precision again.
The upgrade took it up the step so it can be a player that can replace your standalone player. If you only have the cash for one digital player that has to play everything it now works where I wouldn't have claimed that for the standard.
P.S. the BDR cones are still in place. 2-3's and one 4. or is it the other way around...
P.P.S I edited this 100 times. If something is not clear let me know. I just got tired of rereading it... |
I went to the Nuforce web site to learn a little about their upgrade for the 83SE. The info seemed pretty vague. Has anyone ordered that version? |
Hi Jimburger thanks for your first impression. Very much appreciated. If you're so inclined a follow up would be great when the player is fully broken in. Once again thanks! |
I just took delivery of my upgraded BDP-83 direct from Oppo this morning. I played the SACD versions of The Who's Tommy and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon plus track 12 of Hugh Masakela's CD Hope "Stimela". The SE version is like the '83 on steroids. I felt the regular '83 hyperdetailed but a little bit clinical in its presentation. The SE version is much more harmonically rich. There is a lot more texture to horns in the Masakela track in particular. Bass lines in Tommy track Sally Simpson are punchy, articulate, and very dynamic. Pinball Wizard was simply exquisite. Detail was revealed that I had never heard before and it was as exciting to listen to as the very first time I heard it in 1969. These are first impressions, but straight out of the box I found the SE to be very listenable in my system. Bravo to Oppo for a very cost effective mod to those of us that do not have HDMI 1.3 capability but want to experience lossless encoded multichannel audio. Also, I have to commend Oppo for delivering the mod on time as promissed. |
I guess I could have sent Ozzy a pm on the review. Sorry for the confusion and hope nobody read it twice. I don't know if that would be funny or not. It is pretty long so I bet not. |
Agree, still looking for more input on the upgrade before the offer expires. |
Kdibello , Thank you for the review.
Please continue the update. |
My suggestion - please use the quote markup tags in future.
Regards, |
Albertporter It was for Ozzy who asked if anyone actual heard the BDP-83SE. Apparently he missed Jimmm18 original post. The post was copied so that Ozzy would see it. There was no malfeasance intended. The post was copied word for word. |
Jpl208, (Paul) It was for Ozzy who asked if anyone actual heard the BDP-83SE. Apparently he missed Jimmm18 original post. The post was copied so that Ozzy would see it. There was no malfeasance intended. The post was copied word for word. |
11-18-09: Jp1208 Jp1208, (Paul) I'm trying to figure out why you copied and pasted the post from Jimmm18 entered on this thread on 11-13-09. Granted I did not compare word for word, were you making a point? Edited to make it into something funny? |
Hi Jimmm18 looking forward to more impressions of the performance of your BDP-83SE vs the Cambridge 840C. |
11-13-09: Jimmm18
Hi all
OK so I have had the SE upgrade for 24 hours now. I was lucky enough to work from home today so I just played "music to work by". DVD, CD and SACD. Probably in equal amounts about 12+ hours total time on it.
Previously, I used the DAC in my Cambridge Audio 840C when using the OPPO. I found the stock OPPO rather forward with an artificial cast. I could listen to it, it is definately not crappy but much preferred the 840C. On dual disk, both DVD and SACD, I found I would rather listen to the CD side in the 840 than the higher resolution in the OPPO. On movies and such I would use the dac in the 840C.
But I need to say the stock OPPO broken in was good and if I didn't have a dedicated cd player I could live with it. OK Maybe...
So before I brought it in I did listen to some music through it. It was about the same. For example, do you know The Who album has a bass guitar on it? I have the dvd-audio of it and through the 840 the bass is very very distinct and at times pushing the rhythm and at other times acts like a lead. Voices sounded more there and the guitar picking was distinct and the acoustic guitars had that depth of sound that comes from a hollow body--It just sounded like real people making music. The record, whether on vinyl, cd or DVD had always sounded very processed to me.
On the OPPO, like every other player I have heard, The voices and instruments sounded "artificial" which has always been digital sound until I got the 840. The bass was fat and not very rhythmic. The pace and timing just weren't the same.
I will put my system here cause I always want to know what the reviewer uses when I read reviews. Along with 840c I use an VAC Avatar (standard) integrated amp and a set of Dali Mentor 6 speakers. Speakers spiked and the equipment is on a Salamander Synergy Twin 30.
So I get home yesterday, plug it in, stick a disc in and hit play and then went to make dinner, hang with the wife, while listing to XM.
So about 2 hours later I start to listen and...
WOW this is pretty bad. The bass was so loose that all the pace and timing were gone. I knew it had to break in but jeez. Voices were disembodied, it sounded flat and 2 dimensional (and I am using a tube amp!). Cymbals were undifferentiated white noise. It felt like torture. Really!
After about an hour and half I couldn't take it anymore and decided to tweak it. I found my BDR cones and put the ones that warm up the sound under it.
Ok it is now listenable. I put on SPYBOY and listen for awhile. Yes better but I was still not sure better than it was. At this point it was time to watch TV with the wife so let it run on repeat for 2 hours or so. I took a short listen before I turned it off for the night. It was getting better as I listen to the Spyboy choir.
During the as I listened while working I noticed that the bass was now a little boomy which I know are those cones so I switch them out for the ones that are more neutral.
At one point during the day I sat in my listening chair while doing some work on my laptop. When the piano entered in one of the songs I was struck by its clarity. Then I started listening the Trumpet and saxes and noticed how clear their tone was. The trumpet had real bite and the two saxes had very distinct tones. The bass had tighten up as well...
So I have had a couple of hours after work to listen again seriously. I removed the cones cause I didn't use the them on the standard one and I wanted to get a feel on how much better the SE sounded. As this was an upgrade I couldn't do any comparison to the standard model and so I decided not to compare it to the 840C and listen to it as if it was the only player I had.
It is sounding much better. I listen to "Tommy" again as that was what I listen to before I brought it in to be upgraded. The SE is not as forward, there is more depth to the sound. Soundstage was always wide but now it has more layers. The tone seemed to better as well, the acoustic guitars getting that depth.
I am not great at describing the sounds but what I do know that I found myself listening to the music more that the sound.
So I will listen some more but I am thinking the BDR cones maybe mandatory which makes sense. This is still a $500 player and if there was a place to cut costs it would be in the external isolation.
Well back to listening. I may update this after some time has passed and it is well broken in. But I wanted to get his published as there are little or no reviews of it on the web. Least the last I looked.
Jimmm18 (Threads | Answers) |
I have but I cannot say much. So, works fine. Someone on AVS has posted his initial reactions to it compared with the vanilla 83.
Kal |
So, getting back to the original Posters question.
It seems that no one has anyone heard the new OPPO BDP-83SE ? |
Kr4, I guess neither of us sees the relevancy of the other's concerns. |
11-18-09: Tbg
Kr4, I anxiously await the Exemplar moded Oppo, but know two others with them whose opinions I greatly respect. I guess that I should not be reflecting their impressions and await being able to make my own. I must also respect information that I have directly from John Tucker. So far now I should just say that I could have bought the SE, but chose to not do so. I don't care about any of that and, frankly, it has nothing to do with the issue that I was disputing. Kal |
Tick tock, Tbg.
Tick tock... |
Kr4, I anxiously await the Exemplar moded Oppo, but know two others with them whose opinions I greatly respect. I guess that I should not be reflecting their impressions and await being able to make my own. I must also respect information that I have directly from John Tucker. So far now I should just say that I could have bought the SE, but chose to not do so.
Tvad, get a life. |
How much good.... Is good enough?
|
Kal, Tbg will debate you on the chipset issue until the end of days. How much time do you have? |
11-17-09: Tbg
Cmalak, as I have said, Exemplar is moding the BDP83. Granted. Kr4, your saying the fact is the new chipset is superior doesn't make it so. I had auditioned the new chipset as a demo board. One can also look at the specs. 11-17-09: Kdibello
Clio09 that may be true regarding DAC in the standard BDP-83 when it comes to that particular mod. I guess we'll all have to wait until the relative merits of the ESS DAC chipset can be ascertained. The mod, in and of itself, does not change the capabilities of the chips. The integrated performance of each entire configuration should be judged as an entity. Kal |
Clio09 that may be true regarding DAC in the standard BDP-83 when it comes to that particular mod. I guess we'll all have to wait until the relative merits of the ESS DAC chipset can be ascertained. |
I was considering buying the SE version and sending it to TRL for mods.
However, Tbg's post may sway me to go the lower cost route due to the fact that it will be modded anyway. I respect John Tucker of Examplar and when modding such equipment the DAC chip set may not matter so much relative to what other mods are done to he unit |
Cmalak, as I have said, Exemplar is moding the BDP83.
Kr4, your saying the fact is the new chipset is superior doesn't make it so. |
It looks like Modwright is going to continue to provide their mods on both the original BDP83 and on the new BDP83SE. Also looks like Nuforce is going to be selling a version of the BDP83SE with mods to the analog output stage (similar to Modwright). I don't know about the other outfits like RAM that have been modding the base model of the BDP83 |
The SE or a mod based on the SE looks like the best way to go if you have a setup up that is going to rely on the stereo or multichannel analog outputs |
Ah. That does not make the older, original chipset "better." It just makes it more suitable/convenient for your selected mod. In fact, the new chipset is, in all ways, superior.
Kal |
Kr4, sound is the point. I am getting the Exemplar mods. on the OPPO BDP-83 where they work. Exemplar takes this unit to a level that I hope to soon hear. The OPPO BDP-83 SE makes these improvements impossible because of the new chip set. |
11-16-09: Tbg
Kr4, It doesn't use "The OPPO BDP-83 Special Edition uses the state-of-the-art Sabre32 family of Digital-to-Analog Converters (DAC) from ESS Technology. " I do not understand this or the point. Kal |
Mark.
>>Why can't they offer the upgrade to anyone, in the future, say for the cost difference between the two, 400 bucks.<<
I asked that today of Oppo and was told a new version is out, so buy that one instead.... if you want.
No upgrades to sE will come out later for previous BDP 83 owners.... was the message conveyed to me.
I did find out that their warranty is transferable, even if you buy added coverages of the one or two year types. One yr = 49.00; two yr = 69.00.
They've plenty in stock of the std version which I'll order tomorrow. They also said theyve no notions now for upgrading the video'/digital sections in the near future either.
|
I emailed Oppo about the upgrade, since I got the standard version and wanted to see if I could upgrade later. You can not upgrade your regular version player unless you bought it before 11/9/2009. Upgrades will not be offered to anyone who bought the standard unit after that date. You will have to sell your unit and then by the official SE unit. I see that there are some companies offering upgrades and I may take that route in the future.
Mark. |
