You guys seem to be comparing guitars and ignoring the musicians.
Most people in this hobby are entirely too price conscious.
Just a couple of observations --- make what you will of them. |
Kuribo,
I had already read this entire long thread. This thread is what spurred me to consider having amps built with the new AMS-1000-2600 modules, that still are not available.
Unless I missed something, and I just scanned through it again, there is nothing negative stated about the Abletec/Anaview older ALC-1000-1300 modules. There is some mistaken information given, such as the ALC-1000-1300 is being discontinued, but nothing that I read that would discourage me from using them in a custom amp build. Please let me know if you disagree and read anything that could be construed as negative.
I'm about to order a pair of the ALC-1000-1300 modules very soon as in today or tomorrow, so I'd appreciate any additional knowledge you may possess.
In an earlier post, due to incorrect info on that AVS Forum thread, I thought D-Sonic might have to cease using these modules in their top of line M3-1000M mono-blocks and consider using the newer AMS-1000-2600 modules. I now realize they'll be able to continue installing ALC-1000-1300 modules in these amps since Anaview decided to continue manufacturing and supporting them. I stand corrected.
Thanks,
Tim |
Sorry I meant DIY Audio thread, not AVS Forum thread, in my previous post.
Thanks,
Tim |
Hi Guys,
Well since you guys have dipped your toe into the DIY versions, thought I'd chime in... I read forums world wide about the Abletec amps, after looking at my needs, total cost and forum input, I built an amp from the ALC0300-1300 modules about 6 months ago. 150 to 8 ohms, 300 to 4... The forums that I read that did much comparison, liked these slightly better than the 1000-1300...mostly in presentation/soundstage, very similar sonic signature otherwise.
They are quiet, fast, smooth and detailed. On my system, soundstage goes beyond my speakers on either side, depth and height are both great. I can't compare with any of the others mention, so that's why I haven't chimed in before now. I don't know if this will help anyone out there, but I am at a total cost with a case of about $500....SUPERB VALUE
I have sat in front of many expensive amps. This little guy is no slouch. |
Sorry, 1 additional comment, they have very low input impedances, only a select few tubes preamps would work well with them. |
Did you miss the issues one poster had with them and the hassle he had getting them repaired? Did you miss the lack of clarity and assistance provided to those with questions by Abletec? Did you miss the complaints about the deficient instructions provided?
Good luck with them if there are any issues...
There would seem to be a world of difference between the documentation and customer support provided by Abletec in comparison to Hypex. |
Hi Timlub,
Very interesting; the input impedance could be a possible deal killer.
I was planning on using my Oppo-105 as a dac and limited input preamp for computer audio files. Its dedicated stereo output's impedance is 100 ohms on each channel. I also have a tube VTL preamp I'm not currently using but its output impedance is 200 ohms, which wouldn't help.
The input impedance on the new AMS-1000-2600 is listed as 13.5k ohms, which should be okay since it's more than 10 times the Oppo's output impedance of 100 ohms. However, Anaview's pdf file (link below) also states:"(*1) The input impedance on IN+ and IN- is not identical and also different between
channels. See application notes below for more information."
The application notes state: "(*1) Open drain outputs with 2kohm in series to limit the
current." I'm not sure what this means when using this module in building an amp.
http://www.anaview.com/sites/default/files/PDS%20AMS1000-2600-C.pdf
I could not find the input impedance on the ALC-1000-1300 so I need to do some more searching. If it is about the same input impedance as the AMS-1000, I believe the ALC-1000 should be an acceptable impedance match with the Oppo. Below is Profusion's pdf file on the Anaview ALC-1000-1300 module specs:
http://www.profusionplc.com/images/data%20sheets/alc1000-1300.pdf
I would like to know if anyone believes the ALC-1000-1300 modules are not a good match for my system. I'm also going to ask James Romeyn his opinion. If they're not a good match, I may be better off going with one of my backup options:
1. D-Sonic M3-600M mono-blocks that have a custom input board that raises the input impedance.
2. Hypex nc400 mono-blocks, I've read, have relatively high input impedances which allows for better matching.
The Aluminati X-2 stereo amp, using the Pascal SPRO-2 module, also has a somewhat low impedance of 2.2k ohms and may not be an ideal match either. The Pascal module data specs can be viewed at:
p://www.pascalaudio.com/downloads/S-PRO2_Datasheet-1_10.pdf
Thanks,
Tim |
Rich with the Anaview office in New Jersey has no idea what he's talking about regarding the ALC 1000-1300. Its out of production. Period. I've had ongoing communications since May 22nd with Tomas Eng, Global Account Manager for the ETAL GROUP in Sweden. ETAL owns Anaview/Abletec. I originally contacted Tomas regarding the new AMS 1000-2600.
I received an email this morning from Tomas reconfirming that the ALC 1000-1300 is obsolete and out of production and was replaced by the new AMS 1000-2600. |
ALC1000-1300
Single-ended signal
IN+ (CON1:9) Signal
IN- (CON1:10) Ground
Input impedance = 2k44
Balanced signal
IN+ (CON1:9) Signal+
IN- (CON1:10) Signal-
GND (CON1:8) Signal Ground
Input impedance |
Sorry, copy & paste missed 2 digits, since reposting, I am including the modules that I used.
ALC0300-1300
Single-ended signal
IN+ (CON1:9) Signal
IN- (CON1:10) Ground
Input impedance = 13k
Balanced signal
IN+ (CON1:9) Signal+
IN- (CON1:10) Signal-
GND (CON1:8) Signal Ground
Input impedance = 6k
ALC1000-1300
Single-ended signal
IN+ (CON1:9) Signal
IN- (CON1:10) Ground
Input impedance = 2k44
Balanced signal
IN+ (CON1:9) Signal+
IN- (CON1:10) Signal-
GND (CON1:8) Signal Ground
Input impedance = 3k |
|
Audiozen is bang on.... the founder of Anaview confirmed on DIYAudio on April 15th 2014 that the ALC1000 module is being replaced by AMS1000:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/190182-abletec-alc1000-any-experience-8.html#post3892657
Note also the potential for sonic improvement over ALC implied in the following fragments of his post....
"improves THD significantly at high frequencies" -- Suggests that the new series may have sweeter treble.
"Improved CMRR with 0.1% tolerance resistors in the differential input" -- Improved Common Mode Rejection Ratio on differential input is likely to yield a lower noise floor than older ALC series.
Please also read the detailed cautionary post on the DIY implementation of ALC1000 parts from an Australian DIYAudio member:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/190182-abletec-alc1000-any-experience-4.html#post2890929
Guido |
Audiozen and Guido,
Well, it looks like the ALC1000 is discontinued after all.
Kuribo,
I said I read that complete thread but made no claims of how well I did so.
While these reports are concerning, I don't think they would prevent me from going ahead with amp builds using the ALC1000 modules. Some of these issues, such as poor grounding documentation, become less of an issue with an experienced amp builder like James Monteyn. James also said the low impedance input, on both the AMS1000 and ALC1000 modules, is not an issue given the very low 100 ohm impedance of the Oppo-105 that I use as a dac, preamp and source.
My first choice in an amp module remains the new AMS1000 but it may not be available for another month or more. Even if I wait, I'm not sure I can find a vendor to sell me a pair. I'm also looking for a North American vendor to purchase a pair of the discontinued ALC1000 modules from, just in case.
After listening to some high-res music files for a few hours last night using my existing ClassD Audio amp, I was reminded that I definitely don't have a 'need' for a new amp since the music sounded very good. It's more of a 'want', justified only by my desire for new amplification to drive my center channel and passive sub for ht and to satisfy my curiousity about what other class d amps would sound like in my system. My thinking is that I can alternate which amp(s) drive my main speakers for music and which amp(s) drive my cc and sub for ht.
I still haven't ruled out building a pair of ClassD Audio mono-blocks or just buying a pair of D-Sonic M3-600M monoblocks that use the Abletec ALC1000 amp modules.
Thanks,
Tim
|
Update:
I found a U.S. seller of the Abletec ALC1000-1300 amp modules in Virginia yesterday. I bought 2 modules at $280 each. Here are links to the Abletec modules:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwOFgxNDAw/z/pw0AAMXQnFhTj8Pa/$_57.JPG
Abletec Anaview ALC1000-1300 class D amplifier module 1000W-4ohm or 600W-8ohm
image
Abletec Anaview ALC1000-1300 class D amplifier modul...
US $279.95 New in Consumer Electronics, TV, Video & Home Audio, TV, Video & Audio Parts
Here'a a link to the cases:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/2609-aluminum-chassis-preamp-amp-amplifier-chassis-Power-amplifier-chassis-AMP-case-Enclosure-headphone-AMP-box/1751053160.html
James Romeyn should have all the build components by Wednesday, June 11th. I'll try to update as the builds progress.
Savings above by using the ALC1000 modules ($280 each) instead of the newer AMS1000 modules ($455 each) will result in the total mono-block price/cost being reduced to a risk-reducing $1,100/pair. If these sound as good as reported, I might not need to worry about re-sale prices.
Thanks,
Tim |
.
Noble, please keep track of the man-hours you spend on your build. I'd like to know how much total time you spend on building these.
. |
Hi Mitch,
I'm actually paying James Romeyn $155 to build these mono-blocks.
But I'll ask him if he would track his man-hours. He's already told me he anticipates these bulds to be relatively simple compared to the many Hypex nc400 mono-block builds he's done. Take a look at the Abletec ALC1000-1300 module at this site:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301205577693
If the link worked, you can see that these modules are basically drop in components. As I understand it, here's what's involved:
1. Buy 2 cases that have internal dimensions that will accommodate each module's 6.5"W X 2.5"H X 7.09"L/D(166mmW X 63mmH X 180mmL/D)dimensions.
2. If running bridged, set internal dip switch and install provided jumper per instructions.
3. Source and buy 2 IEC receptacles, 2 xlr and/or rca jacks, 2 sets of pos/neg speaker binding posts, 2 sets of 4 case footers and 2 on/off switches if desired. Buy soldering gun, solder and hook-up wire. Buy 2 Abletec ALc1000-1300 modules and 2-3 ALC0300-1300-Connect internal connector kits from Profusion Electronics in Europe.
4. Cut out, or have a shop, cut out holes and drill screw holes to attach 120v IEC mains receptacle. xlr and/or rca input jacks, on/off switch if desired, speaker binding posts and case footers and holes to secure the Abletec modules to the cases. You may need to work with a CAD specialist at the metal shop to specify all cut-out and drilling details.
5. Mount all rear panel connectors, footers and secure the modules mounting screws.
6. Solder connections on inside of rear panel and attach crimp on connectors on internal connections per instructions.
AFAIK, that's about it. If you feel comfortable doing the above, great. If not, just contact James in Utah and he'll do it for you for $155. I think this is his first time building amps using these Abletec modules but I doubt he'll have any difficulties. All his Hypex builds required mounting and connecting separate switch mode power supplies with separate nc400 power modules. The Abletec modules comes fully integrated, with the smps already connected to the power transformers, which simplifies and speeds up the whole amp assembly process.
Mitch, I was looking at your system photos and was amazed at the size of your room;do you live in a warehouse? I was also thinking you're room is one of the few that may actually need 1,000 watts per channel. I'll be using these in a 18ftx13ft living room.
Tim |
Audiozen, you have reported some concern pulling the trigger on Peachtree X-1...
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1402156046&read&3&zzlAudiozen&&
Keep us posted on your integrated quest, G. |
.
Tim, yes it is a warehouse.... an industrial building that was once a Pabst beer brewery that has been converted to lofts.
. |
Mitch,
Those lofts sound/look cool; Pabst brewery, are you in Milwaukee or St. Louis?
Tim |
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Update as of 7/1/14:
Both Abletec modules and all component parts(xlr jacks, cases, binding posts, IEC input connectors with attached on/off switches and LED status indicators) are in James Romeyn's possession.
He had a surge of European Hypex NC400 amp build orders but said he'll be assembling my amps after those are done. I should have these in about 2 weeks.
I also bought 2 maple amp stands from Steve Blinn for $360/pair. Each maple platform is 1.5" thick and has 4 brass cone-type spiked footers attached at the corners. I was able to have the platforms custom sized to 10.8" wide x 13" deep.
My plan is to position each amp/stand on my carpeted floor next to each Magnepan to reduce speaker cable length. I bought a pair of 6 ft xlr cables and a pair of 6 ft speaker cables custom made by James inorder to maximize system sq performance.
If members are sill interested, I'll try to update as progress is made,
Tim |
Tim, do keep us posted as things develop! G. |
Will do, Guido. I'll post again when they arrive. I'll probably use them for at least a few weeks before posting again on their performance.
I think the Abletec monos will need to be very good to surpass my current ClassD Audio SDA440CS stereo amp. I'm very curious and anxious to hear these new amps and what differences I'll notice, if any.
Later,
Tim |
Hi Tim, why not post a running log of the amps sonic evolution throughout break-in.... I find that kind of interim info quite interesting.
Guido |
Guidocorona,
Not sure if I am the only one, but I only care about the long term sound versus break-in. I even wonder why audio manufacturers/dealers take components that are not fully broken in to shows. Don't they want people to hear a component in its best sound state, since that is what people will be living with in the long term than what I call the changing or fluctuating state? There's one manufacturer I spoke to about this same issue, and he said he never gave it much though, and agreed to change that going forward. |
4orreal, yes in the end I care only about the "final" sound....
Yet, I personally enjoy describing the sonic evolution of a device into full bloom... And equally enjoy reading about it.
G. |
|
I think we're all in agreement that 'the final sound' is the most important quality, since that is what all listeners will be hearing, after the break-in period is completed and the sq stabilizes, for the life of the amp.
I know not everyone believes that there is such a thing as a break-in period for new amps. Personally having experienced several new amps transform their sonic character over time as they were played, I am a definite believer in this phenomena even though I don't completely understand the scientific theories postulated for its existence.
I'd rather this thread not get side-tracked into a discussion of whether amp 'break-in' periods are real or not or the various theories on why it exists.
Knowing it is usually preferable to have an abundance of information rather than an insufficient quantity, I think it's best for all involved that I report my sonic impressions at regular time intervals of amp usage as well as once I realize (probably in retrospect) that the amps' have stabilized.
This, Guido and 4orreal, is my long-winded way of saying that I'm willing to try and do both; report sonic impressions at roughly equal intervals beginning with initial out-of-the-box impressions and sonic impressions once I realize the amps' sq has stabilized.
I'll try to be as objective as possible while still having a blast listening to lots of familiar music.
Later,
Tim |
Hi tim... I'll drink to that! G. |
Question on Ncore 1200 amps (Mola, Veritas)- do these generate much heat? Considering using in closed cabinets, but read somewhere that the Atsah ran a little warm. My Linn Klimax run stone cold-- never felt them get warm at all even after extended listening sessions. Just curious for those with first hand experience. Thanks for the great feedback! |
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Vjayh, NCore NC1200 runs slightly warmer than ICEpower 1000ASP. Never the less, When my listening loft reached 86F in June 2013,, the Merrill Veritas review samples felt only moderately warmer to the touch... Perhaps 88F(?).
During summer months, my loft may easily reach 89F because of inefficiency of my roof isolation... the audio chassis of My Rowland M925 monos, which use NC1200, become warm to the touch, but not hot... Even their power supply chassis, which contain a 2500W DC SMPS and a 1200W PFC rectifier unit, never become unpleasantly hot to touch.
G. |
Hi Vjayh. I own the Veritas. They do not get hot but do not run stone cold either. They do get warm. I have mine in a Salamander cabinet with the perforated doors and cosed sides with no problems. I even have used the optional metal vented rear panels in the past with Class A/B amps that ran VERY hot in the same cabinet with no problems.
If your cabinet is TOTAL closed you may want to see if there is any way to create some sort of air flow regardless of what amp you use.
Keep in mind that the Veritas gets warm on its top because that is used as a heat-sink. Maybe your Linn uses its bottom instead?
PS I have had (and heard) many well regarded amps, of ALL Classes and types, and the Veritas is the best I have heard from top to bottom at a lot less money.
Good luck with what ever you choose. |
Thank you very much Hifial. That was very helpful. |
And we are all still mingling beneath Tim's balcony awaiting the puffs of white smoke. Has he named a successor to the venerable ClassD or will the search continue?
For my part, I am seriously considering ditching all this big stuff and switching over to powered studio monitors. I think that's where the most sophisticated engineering is to be found. Not to derail this thread but just to keep the ball in the air while we wait impatiently for more news. It will be difficult to part with my horns. And my Continuum. But you can't move forward while hanging onto things behind you. Who said that? Was it the Dalai Lama or Yogi Berra? |
Update 7/23/14:
I talked to James Romeyn yesterday and got a status update on my amp builds. He is still working his way through a surge in Hypex nc400 amp builds and, unfortunately, he has encountered some unexpected problems that he had to rectify (such as fixing an unexpected hum issue on a bridged nc400 build and a lack of predrilled screw holes on some ncore switch mode power supplies).
I requested he take care of these builds first so that he meets his guaranteed turnaround deadlines and so he can devote all his attention to my amp builds without feeling rushed.
However, the downside is that my amps will not be delivered for another 2-3 weeks. I'm okay with this since I'm not currently without a good amplifier.
I apologize for the delay since I am very anxious and curious, just like some followers of this thread may be, to actually discover how these amps perform.
I'll continue to try and update as things progress.
Thanks,
Tim |
Update 10/23/14:
My adventure tales continue...
Earlier in this thread, when discussing feedback from other forums (DIY Audio and AVS) about using the Abletech/Anaview ALC1000-1300 modules in amp builds, Kuribo wisely and, in retrospect, prophetically posted the following when I inquired whether there were reasons not to use them:
06-02-14: Kuribo
"Did you miss the issues one poster had with them and the hassle he had getting them repaired? Did you miss the lack of clarity and assistance provided to those with questions by Abletec? Did you miss the complaints about the deficient instructions provided?
Good luck with them if there are any issues...
There would seem to be a world of difference between the documentation and customer support provided by Abletec in comparison to Hypex."
Amen, brother Kuribo, you hit the proverbial nail on the head with that post! My builder, James Romeyn, was unable to complete the mono-blocks precisely because of your accurate warning about the complete lack of documentation and customer support provided by Abletech/Anaview for these modules.
I've learned along this journey that Hypex takes an opposite approach, with a strong commitment to DIY amp builders, devoting their nc400 modules for DIY amp assemblers along with well documented instructions and very good customer support. I seriously underestimated the importance of good instructions and customer support to amp assemblers like James Romeyn's and, ultimately, my own detriment.
I suspect Abletech did not intend for their ALC100-1300 modules to be used by DIYers but rather as an OEM module much like Hypex's top-of-the line nc1200 module has been marketed and incorporated into more expensive completed amps from companies like Merrill. Acoustic Imagery, Mola-Mola and others.
In fairness to Mr. Romeyn, I don't consider this his failure at all. I consider this Abletech/Anaview's failure due to their lack of documented instructions and customer support for their modules. I think my ignorance and resulting underestimation of the importance of these supporting areas should also be considered a contributing factor in this set back.
At this point though, I just needed to find someone to complete the amp builds and I wasn't going to give up. After all, did America give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? I think we all know the answer to that.
Knowing that D-Sonic used the same Abletec ALC100-1300 modules in their original M3-600M mono-blocks, I called them to see if they'd be willing to complete my amp builds. I talked to the owner, Dennis Deacon, and explained my situation (adding that I wished I'd just bought a pair of his monos instead). Fortunately, he was very helpful and agreed to complete the builds at a very fair price.
James Romeyn sent the modules and they arrived at D-Sonic yesterday, Oct. 22nd. When completed next week, the modules will be installed in D-Sonic cases and should look and sound just like an original pair of M3-600M mono-blocks, which is totally fine with me. Since the ALC modules have been discontinued, the current D-Sonic M3-600M-A monos now use the newer Anaview/Abletec AMS-1000-2600 modules and D-Sonic signifies this with the "-A" designation and a small increase in price.
If all goes well, which I no longer assume things wlll, I could take delivery in about 2 weeks.
If anyone is still interested, I was still planning on giving regular reports on my impressions of their performance once they're up and running in my system.
I'll try to give updates as events dictate.
Thanks,
Tim
|
|
Yes please, do continue to keep us posted... Dennis is likely the most qualified engineer to successfully build a custom AnaView-based amp for you.
Have you considered asking him if he could take in the 1300 module in trade-in, and build you a 2600-based amp instead? The price difference might not be a major one.
Guido |
What? I'm no tech, I'm no amp designer, this was a piece of cake. There are shots all over the internet of this built and the amps come with a pin diagram.... Something else is involved. I can't think of any reason a qualified person could not get these operational, unless there were specific problems with the amp boards. |
I purchased mine from Profusion.com.... I emailed them on a 2 occasions with questions, they answered quickly... the only info that I asked for not provided with the amp was Input impedance, they answered within hours supplying complete impedance charts for all models. |
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Here you go, here are finished amps on DIY Audio, you'll need a login to view, but you will see, there are maybe 8 or 10 total solder connections to build this amp.
I hope this helps, Tim
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/class-d/239619d1315827370-abletec-alc1000-any-experience-abletec-wo-cover.jpg |
Hi Guido,
Yes, Dennis/D-Sonic was my first thought when thinking of the ideal company to complete amp builds utilizing he Abletech/Anaview modules. He's been great and I'm grateful he was so accommodating and willing to finish them.
You asked: "Have you considered asking him if he could take in the 1300 module in trade-in, and build you a 2600-based amp instead? The price difference might not be a major one."
I did ask him. The problem is that, since these modules are discontinued and he no longer builds amps using them, the modules have limited value to him. He did suggest I could sell them on the open market and put the money toward a new pair of his M3-600-M-A monos using the new Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules that cost $2, 050 per pair. Dennis has stated the difference between the modules, in his opinion, is subtle so I decided the Abletechs should fit my needs and I could save about $1,000, to boot.
Timlub,
I think you're right that there's enough info on the internet and enough support that James could have built these. I think there were some other issues involved that limited the time James could devote to my builds; he needed to prepare for the Rocky Mountain Audio Show in Denver and his normal Hypex nc400 amp business was still going strong and he experienced a surge in orders at the same time. But thanks for the useful info on these builds.
In retrospect, knowing now what I didn't know starting out, I think I would have just purchased a pair of the D-Sonic M3-600-M-A monos with the new AMS modules for $2,050/pr. and called it a day. Live and learn, right?
Hopefully, this thread will help future buyers contemplating class D amps.
Later,
Tim
|
Tim, you know you're right, let us all know how you like them. Tim |
If at all possible, you really should try to get the latest Anaview module, the AMS-1000-2600. All the feedback about it on Swedish and German audio sites (where it has a following) from adopters has been very positive in comparison to the discontinued module. |
Kuribo,
Both you and Guido have suggested the newer AMS-1000-2600 modules are likely to outperform the older and discontinued ALC-1000-1300 modules. I tend to agree with both of you that the AMS is likely to sound better than the ALC; reasoning that Anaview would not discontinue the ALC and replace it with the AMS if it didn't perform better, or am I missing something? I have very limited experience with class D amps in general and have actually only auditioned one in my system, a ClassD Audio 440CS stereo amp, that I wound up buying in January 2014 and have used since as my main amp for driving my older pair of Magnepan 2.7 qr speakers for both 60% ht and 40% 2-ch music duties.
However, I'm now on a fixed income and no longer have the same discretionary income I enjoyed previously. Unfortunately, I'm constrained by financial reasons. Here's some clarifying information on my current thoughts:
1. I paid $560 for the pair of ALC amp modules and it will cost an additional $1,250 for parts and labor for D-Sonic to install these into their latest cases and produce, in effect, a pair of the original Abletec ALC-1000-1300 version of the M3-600-M mono-blocks that sold for $1,875/pair when I initially bought my modules. That means my pair will cost me $1,810/pair ($560 plus $1.250=$1,810). This $65 savings was definitely not my motivation for asking James Romeyn to build a 'copycat' version of the D-Sonic M3-600-M mono-blocks. It wasn't worth the added complications involved and now wish I'd just ordered a new pair from D-Sonic instead for $1,875. Initially, I wasn't crazy about the styling of the D-Sonic amp's styling and decided to have James build a pair of amps in custom aluminum cases with blue LED power status lights shining downward on the cases' brushed aluminum faceplates.
2. D-Sonic's newer AMS-1000-2600 version of the M3-600-M mono-blocks, designated as M3-600-M-A, sell for $2,050/pair. Adding in the $560 I already paid for the ALC modules I wouldn't be using, this results in an effective cost of $2,610/pair to me.
3. I did ask D-Sonic if they would take my ALC modules in trade toward the purchase of a pair of the M3-600-M-A mono-block amps. But, since the ALC modules are discontinued and no longer used in any D-Sonic amps, the modules have limited value to them. Owner, Dennis Deacon, understandably declined and suggested I sell them on the used market and apply the proceeds toward the newer AMS version amps' purchase. Good idea but I'm unsure of how much these older ALC modules are worth, not certain the newer AMS amps even outperform the older ALC modules and don't want to delay obtaining new mono-blocks even further, which is why I decided to go with the ALC modules.
I realize I might be making a performance compromise by utilizing the original ALC based M3-600-M amps, instead of the newer AMS based amps, in my system. But I don't think this is a foregone conclusion:
D-Sonic owner Dennis Deacon, one of two people having heard both modules that I'm aware of, has stated that the sonic differences between these modules is "subtle".
The other, Richard, Anaview's head of U.S. Sales and Distribution in N.J., stated: "the main difference between these modules is not sound quality, saying both sound remarkably similar, but the ability of the new AMS to automatically adapt internally to either 115 or 230 voltages. The older ALC requires a change of setting on an internal dip switch, correct attachment of an inline fuse and the use of a supplied small jumper when assembling that is specifically configured depending on supplied mains voltage."
Now, I think I should also consider Kuribo's post stating: "All the feedback about it on Swedish and German audio sites (where it has a following) from adopters has been very positive in comparison to the discontinued module". This is news to me, since I've not read any of this feedback on these European sites. but I would like to. Kuribo, if these Swedish and German forums are in English or even available translated into English, please post the websites.
I've become a big fan of class D amplification ever since I fortuitously buying a sub-$500 ClassD Audio 440CS stereo amp to replace a broken Aragon 4004 to drive my inefficient Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. I was fascinated that a small, 15 pound, cool running, energy sipping, green and easily affordable class D amp could out-power and outperform (literally in every sonic category known to man) my former large, 85 pound, warm to hot running, space heating and expensive class A/B Aragon amp.
As our predictable 'audiofool' natures dictate and manifest themselves, I began wondering how other class D amps would perform in my system.
This curiosity led me to reading everything I could find on class D; how it differed from the traditional class A, class A/B and tubed amps and compared sound wise to them, what amp modules were being utilized by which companies, sonic impressions from owners and even about DIYers building their own amps utilizing various class D modules and both switching and more traditional toroidal power supplies.
During this learning process, I realized that my actual class D experience consisted of one brand amp in one system. My search for a new class D amp was not initiated by a dissatisfaction with the performance of my ClassD Audio 440CS amp in my system at all. In fact, I had a hard time imagining how another amp would better this little bargain gem of an amp's performance.
My current amp journey was instead initiated by curiosity and a desire to become better acquainted with, and gain firsthand knowledge about, this newer (although older than I thought) amp technology that I believe has a very bright future.
I hope this better explains my willingness to accept my next class D amp(s) being a bit less than the latest and newest version. If the newest AMS modules are truly superior to the slightly older ALC modules, I suspect I'll probably be owning a stereo or mono-blocks example in the not too distant future and find out for myself. I'd also like to audition other class D amps, from B&O Ice ASC, ASP and ASX based to Hypex and Pascal based. I'm just a class D neophyte right now.
Thanks,
Tim
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Google ams-1000-2600 and you will find plenty of german and swedish audio forum posts.
I would either go with (3) and sell them on a site like diyaudio.com, take a small hit, and get the latest module. There is more to it than just a voltage selection switch....
Alternatively, you could spend around $1000 for a pair of used ncore400 monoblocks for sale on audiocircles.com....That would be the best option in my opinion... |
Tim...have you considered the Class D Audio 470 C with 300/600 Watts @ 8/4 Ohms ?
You may be pleasantly surprised...
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Kuribo,
Thanks for the info, I'll check them out.
However, I made a commitment to the Abletec ALC-1000-1300 modules. D-Sonic built a pair of M3-600-M mono-blocks using my modules today and will be shipping them to me in the next few days.
Scm,
I'm currently using a Class D Audio 440CS with 220/440 Watts@8/4 Ohms. It's very good as I think the 470C would be.
I think both amps use International Rectifier amp modules that likely have a similar sonic character. I'm more interested in trying out different class d amps using different amp modules to see what various class d amps sound and which ones I like best in my system.
Thanks,
Tim |
I have a class d SDS 470 and like it better than any amp I've owned. |
Tim - It doesn't matter a bit whether or not something better exists. Pursuing the latest and greatest will make you crazy and broke and can lead to nothing but regret eventually. What you have coming should be very satisfactory as long as you keep your mind in the listening room and out of the magazines. This entire industry is built on dissatisfaction. You already tried to beat the system and failed to do so, breaking about even, and caused yourself worry and delay in the process. The real way to beat the system is to be happy with what you've got. |
