HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC

Which one is better? Pascal or Abletec?

Jdec, Good question, but I am not sure if there exists a particularly good answer... It depends on the individual module, on the particular amp implementation, on the personal preferences of the user. At this point, I have no idea of the inherent sonic differences between the two module suppliers. G.

Hello Hifial,

I did not respond to your very good post on my previous post because I only saw it today, your post date makes it appear like I just ignored your thoughtful and articulate comments on that post. I assure you that I just read them a few minutes ago at about 8am Thursday morning.

I'm thinking that Audiogon didn't post thread replies immediately and the sequence of when members actually hit'Submit now' and replied was not mirrored accurately beause of Audiogon delays in the actual system posting to the graphic interface screens all members see on their screens. In other words, when I hit 'Submit now'on 5/14 in my previous reply, your reply on 5/14 was not posted and visible to other members, including me. This issue is somewhat hard to articulate but I've experienced this issue before on Audiogon and I hope you understand my explanation. I've had numerous cases of several hour delays between hitting'Submit now' and actually seeing it posted on the thread. Audiogon keeps these issues pretty hush hush and never really acknowledges the problem but I'm certain it exists and it seems to be getting worse, not better.

Anyway, to remedy this, I copied your post below and included my response in quotation marks below each of your numbered points/comments:

Hifial:
I have been following this thread and have a few points.

1) Have had both an NC400 and an NC1200 (Veritas) in my system.
As good (really good) as the NC400 is it is in NO WAY 90% of the NC1200 in sound. The NC1200, if done right, is in a WHOLE different league.
noble100: "I've always respected your opinions and trust the accuracy of your impression. My budget of $2,500 is 20% of the price of the Merrill Veritas. It seems like I was overly optimistic expecting the nc400 to be 90% of the nc1200 in sq. Hopefully, I'll get lucky and obtain 20% of the the nc1200's sq. If you think 20% is still too optimistic, perhaps the better strategy is trying the newer Abletec or Pascal amps since both at least have the potential of obtaining a higher percentage similarity to the nc1200 than the nc400 can obtain."

2) It REALLY does matter who and how they build these amps. And the quality of the parts and cases DO matter. The little things DO make a difference in the quality of the sound.
So if you go the DIY route make sure who ever does it KNOWS what they are doing.

noble100: "Both amp builders I'm considering, James Romeyn for the nc400 and Aluminati for the Pascal SPRO-2 build, have considerable amp assembly experience and understand the importance of using quality parts and isolation in amp layout. For parts, they utilize Neutrik xlr jacks, Cardas rca input jacks and speaker terminals along with silver teflon internal wiring. For isolation, they physically separate the power modules from the nc600 or nc1200 smps modules within the enclosure, route connecting wires through shielded metal channels and use internal and external vibration reducing materials, panels and footers."

3) The NC400 is ONLY a DIY. Hypex is very aggressive about that. So if a "builder" decides to use a different brand that may be or be part of the reason for the change.

noble100: "I have no knowledge of Hypex taking actions to curtail the use of their nc400 modules by either builder but you may be correct as far as I know. James Romeyn is still building nc400 based amps. Aluminati has stated they have ceased building nc400 amps due to dwindling demand. After extended listening to a Pascal supplied SPRO-2 stereo sample board, both Aluminati owners thought it was an advancement in sq performance from their Hypex stereo amp build (that consisted of dual nc400 modules both driven by a single nc1200 smps) and thought it would be a likely candidate for future high build demand once word spreads of its high performance, relatively lower cost and the built in smps contained on each amp module board.
I understand the reservation of the nc400 modules for the diy community is a type of homage and reward by Hypex/Bruno P. to them for their early and continued support of his earlier ucd modules. However, I have 2 issues with their aggressive enforcement of this decision:
1. Knowing first-hand how good their OEM nc1200 performed and the likely very high retail price of amps that utilized it would be, how did they overlook the somewhat obvious causal reaction of higher demand for the only Hypex modules that were available for non-OEM purchase, the nc400 modules?

2. Once Hypex realized the higher than expected sales of their "DIY reserved" nc400 modules, they decide to 'aggressively crackdown' on suspected amp builders like they're committing a crime rather than just increasing production. They don't realize that the likely amp builders are likely to be DIYers with the experience, skills and tools to be able to build amps at anything approaching an efficient rate and in significant quantities? They didn't realize that not everyone has the skills time and desire to assemble their own amp? They didn't realize these individuals might hire DIYers to build nc400 based amps for them? Do they realize these amp builders are just trying to make a little extra money from their uniquely well suited skills and that none of them are getting rich from their endeavors and no cmpany revenue is being pirated? Don't they realize Hypex sales and revenue are only positively affected by nc400 amp builders? Do they not realize they are aggressively cracking down on the same DIYers they wanted to reward? If Hypex sold dishwashers and 'reserved' a lower quality model just for homebuilders, would they aggressively crack down on homebuilders that bought too many of their lower quality and lower priced models because they bought extra units to sell to homeowner remodelers interested in the low cost but surprisingly high quality of these supposedly lower quality dishwashers that were rated by many to be of higher quality than their current dishwasher? Okay, I'm calming down now but I have just one final question for Hypex: WTF? Are there issues with nc400 amp building I'm not getting?"

4) One day I would love the chance to hear the Pascal and Albetec Class D amps. The more the better and the better sound for Audiophiles.
noble100: "Amen, I'm in complete agreement. Hi-end sound us for the masses at semi-affordable prices? If that day's coming, I'm all for it. Today, class D amp prices span a wide range, from under $1k as a low price (several Class D Audio stereo amps to a high of about $45k/pair (Marten mono-blocks from Scandinavia). I would be very interested in a review of selected class d amps from these price extremes and various price points in between."


5) I agree with Merrill. The Maggie speakers will sound great with the amps he suggests for the reasons he states. A club member who has a pair tried the NC1200 and he said his system never sounded better. At the time he was using one of the better ARC mono amps.
noble100: "I would probably stretch and buy the Veritas at $12.5k if I wasn't currently spending large amounts of $$ on a total kitchen remodel. But I've already spent more than the cost of the Veritas on the remodel and we have a little more to do. So, I need to stick to my $2,500 budget for the amp. As I mentioned earlier in my previous post, Since I'm unable to audition any of these prior to purchase, I've decided to just start with buying one of my amp options and trying it out in my system. If I love it, I'll keep it until I decide to try something new or something better comes along down the road. If I'm not thrilled, I'll either return it if allowed or sell it if not allowed, I'll then buy the next one on my list and repeat. If, by the time I've tried all 3, I'm still not thrilled with at least one then I'll create a new list of contenders and try again. Unless someone has a better idea, here is the order I've come up with:

1st: Pascal SPRO-2/Aluminati Sound build for the reasons I explained in response to Hifial's 1st point above and because Merrill, whose opinion and class D amp accomplishments I respect, stated the Pascal has a good chance to sound good due to the module's low impedance output which should offer improved control of my Magnepan 2.7qr speaakers.

2nd: Abletec module/DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks for reasons I also explained in response to Hifial's 1st point above and because Hifial thinks it has a better chance to sound really good than the nc400.

3rd: Hypex nc400 because Hifial, who has auditioned both the nc400 and nc1200/Veritas in his own system, doesn't consider the nc400 as in the same league as the nc1200.So, I have high hopes for the 1st and 2nd options but much lower expectations of this option.

6) As good as the Bel Canto amps are, I like them a lot, I agree with Guido that times have changed.
noble100: "I agree, better potential sq improvement with a newer class D module than a pre-Hypex ncore module."

7) Tim, I see your price range is $2,500 but can you add to this if need be? I ask this because you might be putting all your eggs in one basket. As good as the Oppo is you might be better served by getting a stand alone DAC and a new amp. I have heard the Oppo in several members systems and then when the put in a reasonable priced DAC it really took their system up a notch. There are some great sounding DACs out there for a reasonable price. Say from around $1,000 to $2,000 new and less on the used market. Think Teac, Benchmark, BMC and Lynx Studio. And sometimes there are some really great DACs that cost $2,500-$2,800 new but can be had for as little as $2,000-$1,700 used.

I think the combo of an well built NC400 or Albetec with one of the above DACs would something for you to consider if you can.
noble100: " Sure, I'm open to trying a good used standalone dac with the Pascal or Abletec based amp. I just need a bit of time to financially recuperate after the remodel is done in a few weeks."

I'll try to start a thread on the Pascal/Aluminati Sound stereo amp impressions after I listen for a few months.But I won't even receive this amp (Matt Kraemer said I'll be getting SN 0001-which I think is kinda cool).

Thanks to everyone for your assistance throughout this thread, it's been very helpful,
Tim

Tim, I JUST saw your post, Friday around 6pm. You are not kidding about Audiogon posting them LATE.

One thing. You over read my thoughts on the NC400 vs NC1200 sound comparisons.

While the NC400 is NOT 90% or 80% of the NC1200 it is also NOT 20% of the NC1200.

I must say I would be hard pressed to put a percentage on it.
And as I have not heard the Pascal or Albetec I can not say if the NC400 don right competes or exceeds.

Not that you asked but just in case it interests you. Merrill has just released a new entry level amp, monos. He has got some great feedback on them. I plan on hearing them soon. Some in the club are also checking them out and I am waiting to hear their feedback.

Whatever way you go I will say go mono-block vs stereo, you will get better sound and you will not regret it.

I am a little pressed form time right now so maybe more later.

Hi Everyone,

Matt here from Aluminati Sound. We are having a lot of fun designing and testing this new amp. It's sounds much more alive than the Ncore boards IMO and i have made many amp cases for the NC400 board.

We originally stamped the design with "X1" but it makes more sense as "X2" since it will be a 2 channel or stereo amp.

After listening for 100+ hours, we think the board it self sounds great and feel it does not need any fancy modification. But the solid aluminum machined block we'll use for the case adds protection againist outside interference.

Jason (partner) and I are both CNC machinists and combined we have over 30 years of experience. We love machining and we love audio, they go well together.

Best,
Matt

Hifial,

Those new Thor mono-blocks from Merrill are getting some good reviews but they're still $4k/pair. I get a little reluctant when the amp prices are the same as a decent used car. I'm reading they're worth it but I think I'd rather try paying half that in hopes of finding a 'hidden gem' in amps using the newer Abletec or Pascal modules. Matt, from Aluminati, just told me the Pascal SPRO-2 amp modules have been updated and are now bridgeable into 4 ohm loads as well as 8 ohm loads.

So, the stereo Aluminati amp will be called the 'X-2' and there will be monos available later this summer that'll be called 'X-1'. The Pascal amp module is now rated at 1,000 watts in bridged mode at either 4 or 8 ohms and is 89% efficient. I haven't asked the mono-blocks expected price yet but would imagine it will be about double.

I'm not currently willing to pay $4k for the mono versions just yet,either. But, if I like what I hear from the stereo 'X-2" version, I may consider paying more for either those or the Merrill Thors. Maybe the upgrade from the X-2 to the X-1 monos will be similar to the difference you hear from the nc400s to the nc1200s.

I know I'm a lot more comfortable spending the price of a beater used car, about $2,000 for the X-2, than the $4,000 for the Thors or X-1s right now. I wish Guido could review the X-2 or X-1s in PFO before I make a purchase.
I am concerned my expectations are unrealistically high for the X-2 right now. I think I'll check with Aluminati to see if they offer an in home trial period.

Thanks, Tim

I don't know how it compares to other Class D amps or what technology it uses, but I just purchased a Peachtree Nova 220SE. It's being used to drive a pair of Aerial 7Ts. The sound is open, bass is tight, imaging extends in front of and far outside of the speakers. Out of the box it was thin and a little bright. It sounds really good right now.

do you continue to consider the Aluminati product? A substantial part of their cost is the expensive machined aluminum case which adds little to the performance of the amp.A much better price/performance option would be the ncore400 built to order from James Romeyn.

Hi Tim, if X-2 and X-1 use the same Pascal module, I would expect X-1 to have greater ease and authority than X2, with broader stage and images, but I do not expect there to be a significant difference in sonic / musical signature.

You should ask Aluminati if they are enabling the bridging functionality on X-2... That is, are they going to let an X-2 owner flip an internal jumper to bridge their unit to mono.

Note that you can get a pair of D-Sonic M3-600M monos based on Abletech for $1950... See:
http://www.d-sonic.net/products/mono/
Even the Pascal-based M3-1500M cost less than $3K.


Guido

Hi Guido,

Yes, I was thinking the X-1 monos would perform better, too. I was hoping the substantial 500w/ch of the X-2 would supply good ease and authority at half the price.

Matt informed me that Aluminati is offering a 15 day in home trial on the X-2 and has a 2yr parts and labor warranty, and probably on the X-1s too. I think you would say that it'll take more than 15 days for the amp to break in. I'm not sure, you may be right.

Aluminati said the X-2's S-PRO-2 board has the capability to be bridged but a switch must be flipped and a jumper must be added to the circuit to tell it to run in bridge mode.

The D-Sonic M3-600M monos at $1,950/pr., possibly even the M3-1500M at $2,650/pr., are my current backup plans if the X-2 is not to my liking. The M21500Ms had a rave review from 6Moons and, according to D-Sonic, the M2 and M3 are identical amps.

Thanks,
Tim

Hi Tim, two weeks of break-in will yield a maximum of 320 hours of operation.... This is approximately one third of what I suspect complete break-in time might be. So, in two weeks, you might spot a trend about where sound might be in another 4 weeks, but there is no telling if your conjecture is accurate or not.

I recommend that if you get the Aluminati amp(s) on trial, you feed them FM interstation hash from a radio tuner whenever you are not listening to music... That is, you exercise them 24/7.

Guido

Guido,


Before I buy it, I'm sending it to you for break-in and your upcoming PFO review comparing the Alumanati X-2 to the D-Sonic M3-600 and 1500 mono-blocks. I'll be coming to your place in Austin to assist as requested. Please let me know the date and time to show-up. I'll buy the review sample of the winner.

Thanks for the advice, will do.

Tim



Thanks,
Tim

Uhrn.... I do feel very honored for the offer tim, but... when any review project comes to fruition, I must source the samples directly from the respective manufacturer.

Admittedly, Aluminati and D-Sonic would make for fascinating projects.

G.

For completion's sake, here is the internet address of James Romeyn,'s NCore NC400 integration service:

http://jamesromeyn.com/#/home-audio-gear/hypex-ncore-nc400-build-service-on-time-or-free-build/

G.

Kuribo and Guido,

My decision to try a new class D amp in my system was initiated during the reading of audio blogs concerning the building of relatively inexpensive home assembled amps on Audio Circle and DIY Audio. Most of these diyers were very excited to be using the Hypex NCore nc400 amp modules and Hypex switching mode power supplies(smps) in their creations. Hypex had announced at their introduction that their top of the line and most powerful module, the nc1200, would only be available to OEM amp manufacturers. Hypex also announced, however, that they would be making a lower powered amp module in their module lineup, the nc400, available for purchase to the DIY community for use in their home do it yourself amps. Hypex 'reserved' the nc400 modules as a sort of homage to the DIY community. Diyers were instrumental in the success of Hypex's prior class D modules and this was a form of respect, appreciation and reward for the DIY community's loyalty and support.

So, as a result, the nc1200 modules and smps began to be incorporated into expensive ($9,000 plus)new model amps from companies such as Acoustic Imagery, Jeff Rowland Design Group and Merrill Audio. Reviews of these amps were very positive.

The DIY guys, looking for a less expensive amp that possessed similar neutral high-end performance, started buying the Hypex nc400 modules, nc600 or nc1200 smps, wiring harnesses along with Neutrik and Cardas connectors and began making their custom creations.

Practically all of the do-it-yourself amp builders reported their nc400 based amp builds' had very similar sonic characteristics: very well controlled bass with a smooth midrange and a clean, detailed and extended treble that is non-fatiguing. Most assemblers described the overall sound as neutral, transparent and detailed that was very revealing of system changes, upstream deficiencies and recording quality. These sonic qualities were consistently reported whether the diyer built the amp in a custom case, generic case, cigar box or even on open breadboards without enclosures.

The Hypex nc400 amp builds sounded very promising and I decided I'd like to try one in my system. However, due to a stroke I don't have total control of the left side of my body. This, along with very minimal electronics assembly experience, caused me to look for a company to build the amp(s) for me.

The first nc400 based amp builder I contacted was James Romeyn, who was mentioned several times on these forums as an experienced and trusted builder. His assembly charge was very reasonable ($155) and he seemed very knowledgeable, passionate and detailed about his amp builds. The only downside I could see was that his stereo and mono-block cases ( sourced from Ray Sonic in Hong Kong) were, to put it kindly, nothing to write home about.
While researching online for alternative cases, I discovered photos of Aluminati Sound's very impressive stereo and mono-block cases. My thinking was why should I place these very extraordinary amp components in an ordinary case, or mono cases, when extraordinary cases were available at approx. the same price. Aluminati was founded by 2 diyers primarily concerned with audio performance that just happened to be CNC machinists. Their unique combination of audio enthusiasm and many years of experience as CNC machinists, metal fabrication and electronics assembly placed them in a fortuitous position.

Kuribo, you stated in your post:

"do you continue to consider the Aluminati product? A substantial part of their cost is the expensive machined aluminum case which adds little to the performance of the amp.A much better price/performance option would be the ncore400 built to order from James Romeyn."

Yes, my currently preferred option continues to be the Aluminati X-2 amplifier utilizing the Pascal SPRO-2 module. The aluminum case may have limited sonic benefits, although I cannot confirm this with any certainty.

While sound is my primary criteria in selecting a new amp, the cosmetics are also of concern since this new amp will be highly visible in my audio rack about 12ft away from my chair whether I'm using it for 2-ch music or ht duties; I'll rarely be listening in the dark. However, I can say definitively that the Aluminati X-2, with its anodized aluminum case and blue led under-case status light, will be orders of magnitude more attractive than the plain silver or black front panel, or black cases with "NCORE" printed on each mono-block, as the stock Chinese cases offered by James Romeyn appear.

You may be right, the James Romeyn Hypex nc400 amp build may be a better price/performance option than the Pascal based Aluminati. But, again, I cannot state this with any degree of certainty, having heard neither in my system nor any other system. If you have, as your statement seems to indicate, then any comparative thoughts on their sonic characteristics is more than welcomed.

Ultimately that remains my dilemma; having heard neither, I lack a solid basis for making a decision. I am left with only 2 subjective impressions from those that have tried both in their systems:

1. A few anecdotal mentions on AVS Forum from diyers who had built Hypex and Pascal amps claiming they preferred the Pascal amps without elaborating.

2. From Aluminati co-owner,Matt Kraemer, on a previous post on this thread stating: "We are having a lot of fun designing and testing this new amp. It's sounds much more alive than the Ncore boards IMO and I have made many amp cases for the NC400 board."

With this lack of feedback on the Pascal versus Hypex comparisons, I'm now thinking the the D-Sonic M3-600 or M3-1500 mono-blocks, that have received very good professional reviews as well as more anecdotal positive reports on audio forums, are coming on strong. It looks like it may come down to in-house trials to decide this.

Sorry for the excessive post length,
Tim

I understand that the cases offered by James are not the flashiest, while those from Aluminati are as nice as you will find. My feeling is there must be some middle ground as in my opinion you are probably paying at least $500-$800 just for the Aluminati casework. I would rather spend that on something that is making a meaningful contribution to the sonics, that is my point.

From the occasional ncore400 amp that comes up for sale, I would think that if you didn't like it, you would have little trouble getting most of your money back. I doubt you would find the same resale value with the relatively unknown Pascal based amp...

Whichever route you choose, please keep us informed. I have 6 channels of ncore waiting for a multichannel dac so I can actively amp my Magnepan Tympani iva speakers...I am very happy with the ncore product.

Don't want to be pennywise and pound foolish.

Tim, I still have to guide you toward Rowland. Yes it is expensive and yes I have a pair of NCore to sell you instead but In good conscience I have to say that Jeff has been selling his stuff worldwide for 30 years and has amassed thousands of happy customers, many of whom are repeat buyers. Rowland gear is amongst the best for resale and the reliability factor is a big reason why. Bite the bullet. The fact that there are cheaper alternatives does not make JRDG a bad choice. Imitators usually cost less. An Aluminati amp is unlikely to generate any interest if you choose to sell it in a few years. They will become a footnote if they are remembered at all. Imagine how silly this sounds to say we have been machinists for a combined 30 years and we cannot see where these amplifiers can be improved. I've been a lifeguard for 30 years and can't see where this DAC could be improved. The experience does not seem to qualify the opinion very well.
Since you love your present amp but are looking to replace it nonetheless, it seems unlikely that you are shopping for your last amp now. Hence, resale should be on your mind if you are looking to invest wisely.
Which makes more sense, buying an amp for $2000 that you can't resell at all, or buying an amp for $4500 which will likely fetch $3500 for the next several years and resell quickly?

I used to know Jeff quite well back in the 1980s but we haven't seen each other since I took a repair to him about 14 years ago. I have no interest in the company or any sale other than my own NCores which would probably be the second best option. Best would be standing pat with the amp you love and already own.

Take a trip to Colorado with your money instead. I'll buy you lunch and show you around. Be sure to bring the camera. Scenery in these parts is incomparable.

BREAKING NEWS..Cat's out of the bag...It is true that the Abletec ALC-1000 amp used by D-Sonic is no longer made, but just week's ago, Patrik Bostrom has designed and released a new high end Class D
amp line, the AMS series, which will be under the ANAVIEW
banner and not the Abletec name. One model in particular, which will be taking over where the ALC-1000 left off, is the ANAVIEW AMS 1000-2600, which can be purchased as a two channel amp or bridged to a high powered mono. THIS IS THE AMP TO WATCH OUT FOR!..WHY?.."AMS", which means "Adaptive Modulation Servo", which is a revolutionary new loop linearization technology that was specifically designed for, and only used in the past in the worlds finest Class D
amp, designed by Bostrom, the Marten M Amp from Sweden, selling for $45K a pair. For the first time, the AMS circuit
modulation technology is now available in a budget priced,
Bostrom designed Class D amp from ANAVIEW.

ANAVIEW AMS 1000-2600 SPECS

STEREO MODE
170 Watts RMS per channel @8 Ohms
300 Watts RMS per channel @4 Ohms
500 Watts RMS per channel @2 Ohms
__________________________________________________

BRIDGED MONO
580 Watts RMS @8 Ohms
720 Watts RMS @6 Ohms
900 Watts RMS @4 Ohms

Thanks for sharing this update, Audiozen. Now only time will tell as to which manufacturers and new production models will make use of this latest module.

The newish ALC-1000 is hardly breaking news....They have been for sale here:

http://www.shawelectronics.com/ams1000-2600-2x500w.html

for a few months....

I have heard of some reliability issues.

Kuribo, I had some NCores with Romeyn cases for a few months and later got some with Aluminati cases. I think that the Aluminati cases improve the sound of the NCores by dampening vibrations and adding a shield between the power supply and the amp module. The Aluminati amps seemed smoother the sound was more solid. With non double blind testing there is always suspicion in judgments. I built the Aluminati amps a couple of months after I had to return the Romeyn amps to my friend so I am open to the criticism that I only was hearing what I was expecting to hear. I am extremely happy that I bought the cases.

Did you hear the two amps?

Bob

I have no doubt that dampening, shielding, etc. may produce sonic differences that some may prefer. One can add said damping, shielding, etc., themselves without spending megabucks on the case.

Macrojack,

You raise some good point about Rowland being a good solid, if a bit more expensive, alternative and the likelihood of much better retained resale value than the Aluminati amp. Unfortunately, I'm also remodeling my kitchen which is diverting funds from more important and enjoyable pursuits. I would love to have a JRDG amp and, from all indications, I think I'd like it very much but $4,500 is beyond my reach right now.

Kuribo,

You also mentioned the issue of resale value and the importance of stressing sonic performance over cosmetic attributes. Very valid points that I generally agree with, although personally to a somewhat lesser degree. Maybe I'm less of an audiophile than I thought I was since cosmetics are still important to me.

Audiozen,

Thanks for further complicating my dilemma. About 3 weeks ago,I had read about the well respected ALC-1000 being discontinued and being replaced with the promising, and much anticipated, AMS-1000. I actually have discussed, with James Romeyn, the possibility of him building me a pair of mono-blocks using a bridged AMS-1000 in each. It's my understanding that these new power conversion modules have a switch mode power supply (smps) integrated into it. I'm going to add this build to my list of possible amp options.

Things are developing quickly with class D technology. As this thread has progressed, instead of getting closer to a decision, I find myself reassessing my initial prospective amps and considering other options, too.

I could take a safer route and choose the Hypex nc400 amp builds or D-Sonic commercial amps. Or, I could take a bit of a gamble and go for the new Aluminati amp or amp build with the new Anaview AMS-1000 modules. The risks are greater with these last two but the possible rewards are potentially greater too.

I think Macrojack is right that, no matter which amp I choose and how well or poorly it performs, this is unlikely to be my last amplifier. Thinking in these terms relieves the pressure of making a possible mistake in my choice and makes me more amenable to taking a chance on an Aluminati or Anaview AMS-1000 build.

I've got some thinking to do.

Thanks all for your considered opinions.
Tim

Hi Tim, I love to create more problems for my friends, so... Here goes a new, yet undiscussed option from Rowland...

The Rowland M125 bridgeable amp was released last week during the Munich High End show. This amp uses a 4th gen ICEpower module in combination with an active Power Factor Conversion (PFC) rectifier module, as well as input and output Lundahl transformer coupling. I do not know yet if the SMPS is integrated into the power conversion module or it is a separate entity, nor am I absolutely certain about the model of the power conversion module... Will find out. Bridging control is through a toggle switch mounted on the back panel. Output terminals are the traditional Cardas binding posts that Rowland favors, and XLR inputs seem to be Neutrik. There is a 12V trigger jack for controlling standby/operation in home theater system. If I remember things correctly, there is a momentary contact power/standby button in the front similar to what Rowland uses on its other amps... This is one more thing I need to check. The casing is the traditional Rowland cased milled from T66 Aluminum with prismatic faceplate, and segregation pockets for various internal components. Official power ratings seem to be 125W/8 and 250W/4 in stereo mode, and 500W in bridged mode. The device lists for $2950.

According to early rumblings, M125 sounds remarkably sweet and textured... No, I do not have direct experience as yet. I also need to enquire about estimated behavior driving speakers like MG 2.7.

Official -- if still incomplete -- blurbs at:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/categories.php?categoryid=215

Saluti, G.

Tim, check out the Anaview AMS 1000-2600 amp on the Anaview website. There's a link that opens up a 37 page file referred to as the product table which has a photo and endless specs and schematics' on the amp.

Tim, I conjecture that AZ may have refered to the specification PDF of the AMS1000-2600 amplifier module at:

http://www.anaview.com/sites/default/files/PDS%20AMS1000-2600-C.pdf

OEM integrators will find the document to constitute fascinating reading... might help them to decide whether or not to evaluate the behavior of actual module samples for possible use in some future amplifier products.

G.

Regarding the "breakthrough" new design of this AMS module, I see that the output power is rated at 1% THD. Now I haven't heard it yet but this sounds like a step backwards to me.

Guido,

Yes, if these modules are as good as expected, OEM integrators' amps could make a significant advance in performance if the modules are well integrated.

I would also think that any OEM integrators would want to compare their existing amplifiers' modules to this new Anaview AMS-1000 module. In particular, I'm thinking of D-Sonics' use of the now discontinued Abletec ALC-1000 in their well reviewed M2 and M31500M monoblocks. Will Dennis Deacon, D-Sonics owner, be replacing the discontinued ALC-1000 modules with the new Anaview AMS-1000 modules if they perform as expected? It seems like he would be forced to unless he has an ample reserve of the discontinued Abletec ALC-1000 modules stockpiled to sustain production and repairs' requirements. If not, he may just substitute the Anaview module, with appropriate internal mods as he sees necessary, and introduce a successor model perhaps labelled with an M4 series designation.

I would also think amp companies like Acoustic Imagery, Rowland, Merrill, and any others utilizing Hypex nc1200 modules, would evaluate and compare these to their own amps and consider using the AMS-1000 if it betters their existing modules.

Guido, as a reviewer, I guess all these fast paced developments in class D amplification technology will offer new interesting opportunities (such as reviewing D-Sonics' M3 series versus the M4 series, or whatever they call it, amps and the multitude of Hypex based amps against ones using the new Anaview modules)and challenges that should keep you on your toes for a spell. It seems like just a few days ago that I was requesting a three-way review of the Hypex, Pascal and Abletec based assembled and OEM amp implementations.

I'm fairly sure you already have arranged a review comparing the performance of all 3 against the first amp to employ this new suspected world-beater Anaview AMS-1000 module.

Audiozen and Guido,

Hypex offered their top of the line nc1200 modules solely to OEM amp manufacturers while allowing only the lower performance nc400 modules to be sold to the DIY community. Am I correct in understanding that Anaview will not be restricting this new AMS-1000 to OEM manufacturers only? If so, this would be very interesting and, as far as I know, a new paradigm in audio and amp building. This would essentially blur the lines between amp manufacturers, diyers and amp assembling companies like James Romeyn and Alumanati. I'm not arguing against this new equal footing, but can you ever recall such a level playing field in home audio before? My thought is that this, if true, would be considered revolutionary by many in audio.

Hi Tim, I have no immediate plans to propose comparative amp review projects to my PFO editors. G.

Hi Guido,

I know, my friend, you have no plans to propose comparitive amp review projects to your PFO editors; I was pretending as if your employer was free to report on current topics of interest and relevance in audio to their constomers, devoid of financial conflicts of interest with advertisers and concerns regarding PFO's long term sustainability.

I was, of course, just having a little fun and considering a review that I would be very interested in reading. I apologize for pretending that they have complete freedom of the press, and could actually print as they see fit, without regard to the consequences of their content.

My mistake, I was flippantly ignoring the likelihood of self censorship since I, fortunately, am not bound by the same constraints.

Thank you,
Tim

Hi Tim, moving right along.... My challenge of working on review projects with certain manufacturers is meeting with an occasional reluctance to share technical information.

As much as I enjoy ramblling about my own musical experience induced by the sonic performance of a device, I insist in the inclusion of a technical section containing a description of the solutions and unique design features adopted by the component. Such tech section is developed by integrating official information that the manufacturer has published, with further material that the designer has kindly shared with me for the public record, during the course of a taped interview. Needless to say, I refuse to include in an article any facts, factoids, or conjectures obtained from third parties, unless they have been openly and willingly corroborated on the record by the manufacturer.

Salluti, G.

Hi again Tim, here is yet a different solution that should prove to be quite musically satisfying on your MG2.7s…

A pair of Rowland M201 monoblocks based on ICEpower 500ASP. M201 is transformer-coupled and uses a regulated SMPS. A used pair is currently offered at an attractive price at:
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-jeff-rowland-201-amplifier-2014-05-19-amplifiers-10010-new-york-ny

I recommend that you feed the amps through a single 750W Rowland PC-1 power factor corrected rectifier that you will find as one of the components currently offered by my good friend Matt:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-jeff-rowland-capri-s2-pre-amp-with-pc-1-2014-05-07-preamplifiers-07059-warren-nj

You should be able to persuade Matt to part from his PC-1 separately from the Capri S2 offered in the same ad.

M201 features and principles of operation are discussed in detail at:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/categories.php?categoryid=6

There is lots of info on what PC-1 does for living at:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/categories.php?categoryid=23

Note that to use M201 with PC-1, you will need to change the amps’ input voltage to 220V, as discussed at:
http://jeffrowlandgroup.com/kb/questions.php?questionid=519

M201 is transformer coupled like most other Rowland amps… By itself, it is a sweet-sounding amplifier, but it may not reach the subtlety of the higher end Continuum 500 and M312, because its SMPS is fed directly by grundgy and inefficient AC instead of the clean DC that reaches the SMPS of the latter amps…. PC-1 optimizes the efficiency of AC by realigning the voltage and current phases, then converts power into a 750W DC stream and cleans it further through a bank of caps.

Having listened to ICEpower amps fed with and without PFC rectifiers, the difference is significant. I expect PC-1 to add major harmonic density, microdynamics and authority to M201. You will need to get a “Y” output ombelical from Rowland… At a later time, you can add a second PC-1 for even greater authority.

Through a bit of price negotiations you might fit your budget… And get mono amps that not only sound very good, but also look fabulous with their sculpted chassis.

G.

Guido,

I have no qualms with your reviewing guidelines regarding technical information or insistence on manufacturers' corroborating any information before inclusion. I've read several of your reviews and consider them all very well written, professional, informative, well articulated and overall very enjoyable to read.

My main point was that I would think PFO is in a precarious position when deciding what products to assign for review. I want to preface my following comments by stating I have very little knowledge of the process editors use when deciding what products they choose to review and any constraints they encounter or perceive when doing so. My comments are based only on reason, logic and common sense and without any specific knowledge or insight from any source.

From this perspective, I was contemplating why there is such a consistent lack of reviews comparing the performance of various class D amps against each other. For an example, let's say an editor is considering a larger scale review comparing, as chance would have it, the following amps:

MerrillAudio Veritas mono-blocks using Hypex nc1200 power conversion modules.

D-Sonic M31500M mono-blocks using the discontinued Abletec ALC-1000 power conversion modules.

James Romeyn assembled stereo amp using a pair of the Hypex nc400 power conversion modules and nc1200 smps.

Aluminati Sound X-2 assembled stereo amp using a single Pascal SPRO-2 power conversion module

Technical information on all power conversion modules would be aupplied by Hypex, Abletec and Pascal.
Amp features and technical information would be supplied by Merrill Audio, D-Sonic, James Romeyn and Aluminati Sound.
Given the above, my thoughts are:

If either Merrill or D-Sonic advertised with the editor's print or online publication, he may not assign such a review if he thought there was a strong possibility of either of the assembled amps from James Romeyn or Aluminati Sound outperforming the Merrill or D-Sonic amps. Whether either OEM amp company would actually cease their advertising with a publication due to being bested by an upstart assembled amp is debatable and probably irrelevant. Even the editor's perception that this could ensue may be enough to cause him to nix the whole review.

In no way do I think PFO is unique in this regard; the other online and printed audio magazines may also avoid these types of reviews for the same reasons. Ultimately, however, the only indication of my theory being correct is the complete lack of this type of comparative review existing on any online audio site or in any printed audio medium I know of.

I may be all wet with my thoughts and just frustrated with my lack of success finding comparative information online about these various power conversion modules. I am just very curious why there is such a lack of information on this very obvious subject for a thorough review. The only information I've discovered is anecdotal and usually on audio forums, such as this one, from individuals who have no financial incentives, or disincentives, causing them not to respond or not to report honestly.

Just my 2 cents,
Tim

Hi Tim, if you have questions or suggestions for PFO editors, you can send your email to:

mailto:drobinson@positive-feedback.com

G.

I would really like read a comparison (better yet: do my own) of the Ayre AX-5 and the Rowland Continuum S2.

That's easy, Dan. Just pack up your Ayre and come on over. I'm retired now. Plenty of time to accommodate an audiophile friend. And you would have the opportunity to hear my horns.

In recent years, a handful of class D engineers have scaled to the same level as Bruno Putzeys, since they all have accomplished the same thing, and that is correcting the inherent problems that has plagued Class D amps since the 1960's, and that is PWM/Pulse width switching modulators that always had harmonic disorder problems and linear problems, which is why Class D amps years ago had cold upper frequencies, especially with violin and piano, and flabby bass. But always have had that great, rich, lower midrange. The following companies in recent years have all abandoned PWM switching modulators
and have designed in house their own patented switching applications that have eliminated the problems with Class D amps. Those companies are, B&O, with their current MK-III version HCOM modulator which is used in their most recent amps. Nuforce, Audio Research,
Hypex/Ncore, Anaview, with their Phase shift modulator and AMS technology, and Pascal. There is one Class D product that has left me breathless during the past several months which I have listened to, and that is the Peachtree Audio Grand X-1 integrated Class D amplifier with a hybrid tube preamp section designed by legendary circuit engineer Bascom King who is now 74. His resume spanning fifty years is remarkable. Bascom also does design work for Wyred 4 Sound. The X-1 uses two bridged B&O 250ASX2 amps. Two Psvane 12AU7 tubes are used in the buffer stage and can be turned off or on via the remote while listening to have the option of solid state or the tube buffer when needed. The amp puts out 440 watts @8Ohms and 770 watts @4Ohms and can easily drive loads down to 1ohm. It has a full, rich, meaty sound with tight fisted bass performance that will crack your skull. It has the best damn DAC on the planet, the ESS Sabre32 9018 Reference which has jitter master clocked down to one picosecond. Incredible. A close friend of mine picked one up over the Christmas holiday and it is extremely enjoyable to listen to. There are many other features including a killer headphone amp that make the X-1 and absolute steal for $4500.00.

Audiozen,

I'm currently driving Aerial 7Ts with a Peachtree Nova 220SE and love the sound. I plan to upgrade to the X-1 in a few months.

Ricred1..that would be a wise move with the 7T's. With their beefy Dave Marshall crossover boards and their large driver magnet structure, results in a very power hungry speaker. Michael Kelly informed me several years ago that a 500 to 1000 watt amp would bring out the best from the 7T's.
Even though they are 4 Ohm speakers, they will not drop below 3 Ohms when driving a pair. More than likely I'll be purchasing the X-1 myself since Peachtree Audio is a twenty minute drive from my home. Peachtree is currently out of stock of the X-1 and will have their next batch available within 90 days.

Audiozen - have you any idea about comparison between JRDG Continuum S2 and the Peachtree X-1 aside from the fact that the Rowland costs twice as much? A cursory examination has them looking comparable.

Audiozen,

You piqued my interest by mentioning the new Anaview/Abletec AMS-1000-2600 module. I even called Richard, Anaview's head of U.S. Sales and Distribution in N.J., and he was quite informative.

He said the new AMS-1000-2600 modules are currently being built at their Chinese contractors and will be available soon. He also said the older ALC-1000-1300 is not going to be discontinued and will remain a current model in their ALC series modules. He said the main difference between these modules is not sound quality, saying both sound remarkably similar, but the ability of the new AMS to automatically adapt internally to either 115 or 230 voltages. The older ALC requires a change of setting on an internal dip switch, correct attachment of an inline fuse and the use of a supplied small jumper when assembling that is specifically configured depending on supplied mains voltage.

I recently talked to James Monteyn, too. He's agreed to assemble a pair of mono-blocks for me using either Anaview module I choose. I contacted Profusion LLC in the U.K. and they will sell me a pair of either modules. But, the new AMS modules won't be available for another 1-3 months. However, they do have the older ALC modules on-hand and ready for immediate purchase and delivery. I'm leaning toward using the ALC modules since, according to Anaview, sq is basically the same and I'll save about $300 buying these modules instead of the pricier AMS-1000-2600 modules. The ALC-1000-2600 is the module used in D-Sonics M2-1500M mono-blocks that received an excellent review on 6 Moons a little while ago.

Either module configured to operate in bridged mode,by changing a setting on an internal dip switch and installing a supplied small jumper, and deliver approx. 1,000 watts @ 4ohms. This should allow for a solid but relaxed presentation with ample headroom on all types of music with either module.

The aluminum cases I already ordered will accommodate either modules very well. For cosmetics, I've ordered 2 led modules that James will mount to the upper front of the natural aluminum colored faceplates on each case. These will cast a soft blue downward light 120 degrees across the faceplate and act as a power status indicator.

I started this thread to hopefully gain knowledge about the sonic characteristics of Hypex, Pascal and Abletec(now part of Anaview)power conversion module based class D amps. I still have not heard any amp based on any of these modules in my, or any other, system. There is a conspicuous lack of this type of information available in any print or online sources. I hope to change this somewhat, even though I am by no means a skilled reviewer.

I've decided to proceed by selecting and buying the likeliest candidate first and then become well acquainted with it in my system. If I'm satisfied with the performance, I'll keep it. If not, I'll return or sell it and try the next likeliest and repeat through all amp module options if necessary. If no amp is satisfactory, hopefully, new class D options will emerge by that time.

I'll post my impressions after a few months of listening along the way as I go along this journey. I've decided to try the Anaview module/amp first, and Pascal module second, since my subjective opinion is that these 2 have the best chance of besting Hypex nc400 modules/amps since they are used in such highly reviewed amps from Rowland and D-Sonic. I could be wrong, but I think of the Hypes nc400 modules/amps as very good, safe choices that will perform highly, but, have been around for awhile, and there may be better class D amps you can discover if you're willing to search and take a bit of a chance. The risk, or chance comes into play because of the complete lack of le, comprehensive and reliable reviews comparing class D amps using various power conversion modules. Yes, there are other factors influencing an amp's performance besides the module used but this should be incorporated into the reviews by a skilled audio reviewer. The fact that it won't be simple should not be used as a rationalization for not even attempting it or considering this truth as insurmountable.
I should be able to begin obtaining my own impressions of the Anaview/Abletec ALC-1000-1300 based James Romeyn mono-blocks in 2-3 weeks.
I'll report back in a few months on this thread or I'll start a new one. I want to give them 2-3 months to determine how the performance develops if the modules require a breakin period.

Thanks all,
Tim

Sounds great Tim. Look forward to your experience.

Macrojack..the Continuum S2 is manufactured and assembled in the U.S., so of course the retail price is much higher than the Peachtree X-1. The X-1's Preamp stage and chassis are manufactured in China then shipped in separate parts to their facility for final assembly and testing in California. The X-1's 1/8th inch faceplate
has all the letters and writing drilled into the metal surface. Class. No cheap screen print on this baby. I much prefer the traditional five way binding post on the X-1 than
those clunky, black Cardas connectors on the S2 that look like pull knobs on a 1930 tool chest. In a recent comment by B&O in 6Moons, they mention their latest HCOM modulator
that's used in the Peachtree X-1, can provide much more continuous current without the need of a large power supply. I think the X-1 is the wiser choice between the two given its excellent tube stage, the worlds finest DAC, and a very cool frequency roll off switch on the back that you can set roll off to fast or slow. The X-1 is gorgeous. Its exterior design reminds me of the very suave looking modern high end components of the 90's. Peachtree's main business and corporate office is in Bellevue, Washington.

I would read the the thread on the als-1000 modules on diyaudio.com before going down that road.

This is very exciting news Tim... What will be the total cost of your new amps?

Guido

Hi Guido,

Yes, I'm getting very excited and curious to hear how these perform compared to my current class D amp. The total cost will be $1,213.38/pair excluding shipping

Here's a breakdown of my costs for these mono-blocks:

2 Anaview ALC-1000-1300 stereo modules and 2 connector kits from Profusion: $674.40
(2x$317.25=$634.50+$9.90 alc0300/1000 connector kits+ $30 shipping=$674.40)

2 Aluminum amp cases part#5209 from Ali Express =$139.00
(2x $40.73=$81.46+$57.54 shipping=$139.00)

2 Chrome light modules with blue led lights from Radiantz LED=$24.98
(2x$9.99=$19.98+$5.00 shipping-$24.98)

Case metalwork (drilling and cutting on 2 cases=$220.00

James Monteyn labor costs for 2 monoblocks=$155

Seems like a good deal for 1,000 watts/ch @ 4ohm mono-blocks, especially if they sound good.

Later,
Tim

have you read the diyaudio.com thread on the als-1000? You might want to before you go ahead with them...

Hi Tim, $1K is a very attractive price... Do keep us posted! Guido

Good stuff!

Hi Kuribo, could you post the address of the DIY thread that you are referring to? Thanks, Guido

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/190182-abletec-alc1000-any-experience.html

read the entire thread....