Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).
Well, I should get to my point:
I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels. I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:
Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.
Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.
Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).
Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.
I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.
I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.
Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.
My opinion is that Bruno and Hypex had a strategy before they launched/released their 1st modules. They knew what they had the ability to build modules of a wide variety of power outputs as well as a wide range of sonic performance levels; from a basic/'vanilla' grade with their own discrete input section to a high performance grade that had a standard ic input section that OEMs could easily replace with their own proprietary input sections tailored to the OEM's own preferences.
The strategy consisted of releasing:
1, A lower,but still respectfully, powered module to the DIY market as the NC400. This module would have a basic discrete input section since many DIYers may not have the skills needed to build their own. Pricing would be reasonably low to spur DIY sales.
2. The highest powered module would be released to the p.a. and home audio amplifier manufacturers (OEMs). This module would have a simple ic input section that could easily be removed and replaced by the OEM's custom inputs that they design themselves and that tailor the sound to their needs and sound preferences. These would be unique and proprietary to each OEM. Pricing would be relatively high and be restricted to OEMs only.
My opinion is that Bruno and Hypex had a strategy before they released their 1st modules. They knew that they had the ability to build modules of a wide variety of power outputs as well as a wide range of sonic performance levels; from a basic/'vanilla' grade with their own discrete input section to a high performance grade that would come with a standard ic input section that OEMs could easily replace with their own proprietary input sections tailored to the OEM's own preferences. Hypex would offer input section fee-based design assistance from Hypex engineers so that OEMs could attain the highest performance levels from these modules if desired.
The strategy consisted of releasing:
1, A lower,but still respectfully, powered module to the DIY market as the NC400. This module would have a basic discrete input section since many DIYers may not have the skills needed to build their own. Pricing would be reasonably low to spur DIY sales.
2. A very high powered module, the NC1200, to the p.a. and home audio amplifier manufacturers (OEMs). This module would have a simple ic input section that could easily be removed and replaced by the OEM's custom inputs that they would design themselves, or with the fee-based assistance of Hypex engineers, that tailors the sound to their preferences and wrings the highest known level of performance from the modules. These would be unique and proprietary to each OEM. Pricing would be relatively high and be restricted to OEMs only.
3. There would be a series of other modules, at various power output levels, that could be released to the DIY or OEM markets at Hypex'a discretion based on demand and market conditions. These modules would be produced with the basic input sections if intended for the DIY market or easily replaced ic input sections if intended for the OEM market. Hypex engineers would only be available to OEMs.
My opinion, unsubstantiated by anything remotely resembling proof, is that Hypex has insider knowledge of how to wring a high level of performance from any of their modules, no matter the power output. I think this knowledge is available, but only to OEMs and only for a fee. The #1 goal of any business is to leveredge their resources, which includes proprietary knowledge, to maximize profits.
Again, this is only my 2 cents worth, based mainly on a bachelors degree in Economics and some resultant knowledge concerning how corporations generally behave and operate.
I received my D-Sonic M3-600M monoblocks, containing the Abletec ALC-1000-1300 power modules, a few weeks ago. My original plan was to place each amp on the carpeted floor atop spiked maple amp stands 6" inside each speaker. To increase vibration isolation, however, I bought a low rise audio cabinet to accommodate both amps. This rack is low (only 14" tall)and wide (5 ft) and has a maple wood top with front pull-down doors that conceal my surround amps. The rack sits directly below a wall-mounted 65" hdtv, which leaves a 10" space between the top of the maple rack platform and the bottom of the tv above. One amp, each atop its own maple amp stand with brass cone footers, is positioned on each end of the rack platform near each speaker, with my source positioned between the amps.
After delivery, I started to break them in slowly using satellite tv with a 1-2 hour exception that evening when we watched a war movie, "Lone Survivor", on HBO when I had the volume set at about theater level throughout. The new amps sound very similar to my former ClassD Audio 440CS amp, with a dead quiet background and an accurate sound but with even more detail and much more powerful dynamics. These amps definitely excel in ht duties since they are very powerful, run cool and are relatively small.
I've played almost all of my familiar music on these amps over the past 2 weeks, stored as APE files for cds and FLAC files for a handful of 24bit/96khz downloads. I would characterize the music playback as very smooth but with very good detail at the same time. My previous amp had these same qualities but I have the sense that the noise floor is now even lower with the D-Sonics and this made the smoothness and detail of the sound more obvious. Clear improvements were evident in the sound stage illusion and dynamics. The sound stage was just as wide and deep but images are more solid, dimensional and stable. I;m now able to concentrate on individual musicians/instruments and distinctly hear variations in tone and volume on good recordings. This is new to me and I find it really adds to my musical enjoyment. The D-Sonics produced the same illusion of 'being in the room', or 'the musicians being in my room', as my former amp did but with even more intensity and realism. The In general, I'd say the new amps have elevated my system's music playback performance, and my enjoyment, by a significant amount.
I stated previously that I'd update at regular intervals and report on changes I notice as the amps 'break-in'. However, I honestly haven't noticed any changes in performance thus far. Either there's been no audible changes yet or my hearing may not be as sensitive as I thought. It could be the aging process,I'm 56 now, and can't remember my last hearing test. Anyway, I'm not going to stop listening to music, so I'll try and stay alert for any subtle changes I notice and report back when I do on this thread.
Over the past few months, I've also been involved in trying to upgrade my system's bass performance. It's still fairly good, but I'm using a 20 plus year old Synergistics passive sub to augment the bass response for speakers that only go down to 37 hz. I purchased a replacement bass system that is scheduled to arrive within the next 2 days. It consists of 4 67 pound passive subs powered by a separate amp. After an extensive search, I bought James Romeyn's demo DEBRA bass system that entails a fairly elaborate setup procedure.
If anyone's interested, I'll probably be starting a new thread on this bass system in the next few days. The system claims accurate bass response down to 20hz,+ or-/3db or less. I'll be using this for both ht and music. The pictures and description listed on the link below are of the demo system I bought:
Go to www.jamesromeyn.com. Click on "Audiophile Gear" and then on "DEBRA Bass System".
Noble100, Your amps are nowhere near full break-in. I have had the same amps since early 2013 and remember well that they continued to improve for many hundreds of hours listening. I reported on the early progress with them and was advised by Guido (I think) that they could take as long as 1200, but I remember that by 600 or so that I just didn't care anymore and focused on other setup refinements. I love mine and the more the rest of the system improves, the better they sound.
Very good to know the M3-600-M's improve over playing time. With my first class d amp, a stereo ClassD Audio 440CS, I recall the amp sounding better and better over an extended period of time before it seemed to stabilize. I tought, at the time, that this was more a case of me adapting to the nuances of class d amplification as opposed to the amp actually 'breaking in'. It's a subtle distinction that's hard to validate one way or the other. I chalked the difference up to the fact I was moving from a class A/B Aragon 4004 to a different class d amp technology.
From my subjective perspective, there was a definite improvement in my system's performance moving from class A/B to class D. This improvement was over a period of about 2-3 months and it was not subtle in nature.
Since my latest change was from one class D amp to another and my ears/brain aural sensing mechanisms have already been indoctrinated to and adapted to the 'class D sound', the change in system performance was less dramatic than it was when I switched from class A/B to class D. Don't get me wrong, there are significant and obvious improvements in several areas with the M-600 amps; it's just that I'm not noticing any clear pattern of gradual improvements in amp performance that I would recognize as the amps 'breaking in'.
To complicate matters, I recently added a multi-sub bass system (described in an earlier post on this thread) that was truly transformational to my system's overall performance. Bass response is now very extended and accurate; measured down to 20hz within 2 dbs and without any measured or noticeable bass modes or nulls at the seating positions. This has unexpectedly resulted in performers/instruments now seemingly occupying well defined palpable and physical space in my living room, the better the recording the better the imaginary affect. My current theory is that this ultra-realism and stable sound staging has distracted me from noticing smaller and more gradual changes in the amps' performance that may be extant over time.
In other words, I'm currently so over-the-moon happy with my system's top-to-bottom rock solid frequency integration and ultra-realism, I've either failed to notice incremental changes in the M-600's behavior or I've ceased to care whether its primary cause is the new amps or the new bass system. All I know for certain is that my system is now functioning extremely well for both 2-channel computer audio and home theater sources. It's hard for me to pinpoint any weaknesses and areas needing improvement. But that won't prevent my continued enjoyment of both nor searching for possible system improvements. I understand that my system is now operating at a stunningly high level and any future improvements will be harder to identify, likely cost prohibitive, less dramatic and more incremental. But this is all just fine with me. I'm going to enjoy the fruits of my efforts and switch my searches to finding some more good music that is well recorded and high resolution. After all, I still have about 1.5 TBs of storage to fill up.
Thanks to all of you who helped me on my long but successful journey,
I'm interested in D-Sonic M3-1200S-A, can this amp accept both domestic and foreign input voltage, or does one need to return the amp back to D-Sonic to change between input voltage.
I think you choose domestic or foreign voltage when you place your order. Which means you'd probably need D-Sonic to switch it from one to the other but you may want to call D-Sonic to make sure.
Tobeornottobe, I have a pair of the M2-600M-A (which is the same amplifier module than the ones used in the M2-1200S-A), and they are auto-range, working within 110-240 V. No conversion or customization is needed from D-Sonic.
I recommend verifying autoranging for any particular amp with the factory. The D-Sonic homepage at
http://www.d-sonic.net/
states:
Factory selectable mains 115/230VAC
This implies no autoranging... Blue smoke at power-up is very pretty... and sometimes smells kind of nice... But a little expensive to deal with in its aftermath.
Agree with Guido... get a confirmation from Dennis just to rest assured, it's just an email anyway. From a technical point of view I can confirm that the amplifier is autorange since I have the module datasheet, and have an email from Dennis confirming this when I ordered my amp! Cheers, Sebastian
Autoranging might be implemented on some amps, while other amps may be factory set... It depends on the module supplier, the module itself, and the particular separate power supply which might be used (or not) on some amps at some point in a model's production cycle.
It's the usual, and potentilly painful... "Specifications subject to change without notice" ... "Better safe than sorry" ... "The devil's in the details" ... and... Auch, that hurts!
D-sonic Dennis is a very kind person who always answers any questions about his designs.
I think I sent him at least ten emails with questions to him before ordering my M3-600M-As.
Input impedance? Auto-range mains? Differences against previous ALC1000-1300 module? How internal cabling is run? Differences against Pascal? Comparison against class AB amps in same price range? EMI/RFI shielding? etc etc etc
My experience has been very positive, and these amps sound simply fantastic.
My 150w/ch PS Audio HCA-2 is long overdue for a replacement this summer. After reading as much as I can on the best Class D amps, the D-Sonic M3-1200S-A is at the top of my list. The reason I was asking about it's input voltage is because my wife is from the Philippines and occasionally I take my stereo equipment there.
Sebollo001, those are great questions. Would you be kind and post some of those answers you got for the M3-600M?
Input impedance? Differences against previous ALC1000-1300 module? How internal cabling is run? Differences against Pascal? Comparison against class AB amps in same price range? EMI/RFI shielding? etc etc etc
My experience has been very positive, and these amps sound simply fantastic
Have you considered the Aluminati X2 amplifier? It's not as powerful as the M2-1200S-A, but the Pascal module is also excellent with the latest class D technology, and auto-range 100-240 V. The advantage I see in the X2 is the case design, which is nothing short of spectacular (like a small Jeff Rowland!), and dimensions are compact, giving it high portability. Finally, it's price started at $2500 and is now on sale at $1500, which I consider very good value for the case and module included.
Yes, I looked at the Aluminati X2 which is at a great price now, it's just that I can't find any reviews on this amp that uses a Pascal module. My speakers are the Omni-directional OHM 3000 which crave lots of power.
Input impedance? 1.37 to 14.5 KOhms. Differences against previous ALC1000-1300 module? According to Dennis, depending on source material, in his system, the new modules sounded equal or better than the previous generation. How internal cabling is run? Straight, not twisted. Differences against Pascal? Basically, power capabilities is the most important difference. Regarding sound, both of the technologies Dennis use offer an organic, natural quality to the high frequency range. Comparison against class AB amps in same price range? Dennis said the M3-600M-A pair is superior to the Parasound A21 in every way, near the sound quality of the top of the line Brystons. I was able to compare the M3-600M-A against a pair of McIntosh MC601 monoblocks, on B&W802Ds speakers. The D-Sonics were superior in the bass performance, while the rest of the spectrum was similar. Hope it helps...
Tobeornottobe, look at the review of the Gato Audio DIA-250 integrated amplifier:
http://6moons.com/audioreviews/gato3/6.html
It uses a modified Pascal SPRO Module, similar to the one included in the Aluminati X2.
I think this amplifier should drive your speakers perfectly, and you always have the option to buy a second one in the future and use them in BTL mode.
The M3-1200M-A, however, will possibly have more dynamic headroom when driven to the extreme.
I just finished reading the 6 moons review. I'll keep an open mind as I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger on a new amp. Hope to read more reviews on amps that use the Pascal SPRO module, specifically a review of the Aluminati X2.
I currently have my Parasound A21 for sale and I'm looking into Class D amps. I have a pair of Aerial 7Ts and I'm considering Rowland 125s(pair bridge), 525, or D-sonic M3- 1500M. I know the 125s use a version of ICE, but is the price difference between D-sonic and Rowland simple because of the Rowland name or do they use different technology?
I will recommend D Sonic M3-800M mono amps it uses the same Pascal module as the Jeff Rowland Continuum S2, the M-Pro2 in each amp for alot less money, it has some reviews on the net. I would say that it is a warmer sounding amp with alot of power, great mids, great imaging works well with my tube pre
I would like to hear your comments about the low volume listening detail with your M3-800M amps (Pascal M-PRO2).
I read two reviews about two different amplifiers using this M-PRO2 module.
Both agree to say that the sound signature is on the warm side, and one of the reviewers added that the amplifier needs increased SPLs to get the best detail retrieval.
A third review on a Pascal design, but on the bigger X-PRO1, also finds its only weak point to be a bit "overly analog", again on the warm side.
Finally, there's a fourth review of a Pascal module, this time the smaller S-PRO2, which has less power capability than the other Pascal offerings but the sound signature is more neutral, allowing better low level detail retrieval.
I think it all depends on ones listening habits, but anyhow it is really interesting to know these differences to do the right choice.
BTW, you may find interesting the following assessment from a very experienced reviewer (who tested all following amps). This would be the "warm" to "detailed" current class D scale, according to 6moons owner Srajan Ebaen:
Sebollo001, Thanks for the input. The comparison to the McIntosh MC601 monoblocks speaks volume, even though I have never heard both. I have pulled the trigger, but it will take another three weeks to get in Tanzania (cheapest air cargo).
The M3-600M-A will be mated to a tubed preamp; the Sonic Frontier L3, with the CLS IIz as the speakers.
Planckscale & Ricred1, congratulations and I hope you enjoy the new amps as much as I´m enjoying mines.
Please report back! I would like to hear your first day experience, and the evolution after 300 hours.
I think you will notice an instantaneous upgrade in bass and dynamics qualities. In my experience, the mids and highs start very good but further improve over time.
Another thing I noticed is that the amplifiers require at least 10 minutes of operation to "stabilize" their bass performance. Anyway, as they only consume 17 Watts (each) I always leave them on.
First, I did not believe in break in. However after testing again with my old amp as reference, I could verify that the performance "gap" between them had changed, and widened in favor of the D-Sonics.
Your warm to neutral performance reference from 6 Moons's Srajan Ebaen is very helpful and puts things nicely in perspective:
"BTW, you may find interesting the following assessment from a very experienced reviewer (who tested all following amps). This would be the "warm" to "detailed" current class D scale, according to 6moons owner Srajan Ebaen:
After a few months of use, I would place the D-Sonic M3-600M mono-blocks, using the older Anaview/Abletec ALC-1000-1300 modules, clearly on the neutral end of the scale. To me, my experience and this scale verifies Dennis Deacon's comment that the Anaview AMS and older Anaview ALC modules (used in the D-Sonic M3-600M-A and M3-600M amps, respectively) sound similar with both being neutral amps.
I highly recommend these amps, especially with the newer 600-M-A models reported to be even better.
Anyone wanting more warmth could add a tube preamp. Just make sure you pick out one that you like the sound of since these amps are very neutral and any upstream components will be revealed, good better or in between.
So, who has built the DIY Hypex score amp? I'm thinking of building it, and I would like direct feedback on kits, results, etc.
I apologize that I did not read all six pages of posts; time is limited. But I would like to hear from those who have direct experience with the NC400 and attending SMPS600. Hopefully someone here can shed some light on this for me.
I will add, the Hypex had better be freakin' fantastic, because I'm using the Wells Audio Innamorata amp, which is a honey! It would take a radically good amp to best it. I would be interested in which amps the ncore has bested, as I am familiar with many and could assess based on such feedback. :)
I don't know whether you have good electronic building skills or not. If you don't, there's a guy in Utah, James Monteyn, who has built hundreds of mono-blocks amps using a Hypex nc400 power conversion module and a SMPS600 power supply in each. He charges $1,900 a pair for regular mono builds; he orders the component parts direct from the Hypex store, builds both amps and then charges less than $50 to ship to your address. You have your choice of 2 different cases. He also offers a Hypex stereo amp that uses 2 nc400 modules connected to a single SMPS1200A400 power supply for $1,490 plus shipping.
I originally was going to order a mono pair before deciding to buy a pair of D-Sonic M3-600M monos.
Sorry, I've never auditioned any Hypex amps but all reviews I've read are unanimously very good.
You can learn more about his amp builds at http://jamesromeyn.com/#/home-audio-gear/hypex-ncore-nc400-build-service-on-time-or-free-build/. There's a phone number on the site if you want to discuss before buying. I've talk to him several times and he was very knowledgeable and took the time to answer all my questions.
I think he would be a good source for relating how they perform and what amps buyers formerly used and bested. He sells to customers world-wide and I'm fairly certain he has a lot of customer feedback he could relate to you.
After reading extensively about the newer technology of class D power conversion modules, I developed a strong urge to audition and compare the various modules in my own system to hear how they compared. My original thought , just as you seemingly decided, was to have a pair of Hypex nc400 mono-blocks built.
However, during my reading I discovered there were a few highly regarded alternative modules developed that had the potential to outperform the unanimously praised Hypex modules, namely the Abletech and Pascal modules utilized in Marten and Rowland amps respectively. But, at this point, I hadn't actually heard any amps using any of these modules. Also at this point, there was little to no online information comparing these modules. This lack of info was the reason I started this thread.
After reading many online descriptions from Hypex amp builders and owners, I began to believe I knew the performance I could expect from Hypex nc400 monos; very good power, very low distortion with a very detailed and neutral presentation. Then I received feedback on this thread that the nc400 based amps are very good but not in the same league as nc1200 based amps (like the Merrill Veritas and others). That's when I decided to have mono-blocks built using the Abletech ALC-1000-1300 modules. My thought was I could play it safe and get very good performance from a pair of Hypex nc400 monos or I could take a bit of a chance on the potential that the Abletech module based monos might perform even better.
Earlier in this thread I documented my long path to actually having a pair of monos built using the Abletech modules, in case you'd care to know the details. Long story short, Dennis Deacon at D-Sonic put the 2 Abletech modules I bought into 2 of his cases and delivered to me, in affect, a pair of his M3-600M mono-block amps.
I've been using them for a few months now and I'm thrilled with their performance for both music and ht. The 1,200 watts/ch (into my inefficient 4 ohm Magnepans) results in an effortless presentation that is very detailed and neutral but very musical with good recordings.
I can't state that they outperform the nc400 amps because I've never heard them in my system or any other system. I would guess, based on users' feedback, that they have similar qualities as the D-Sonics.
Your choice may come down to which is a better match for your speakers in terms of power required. The D-Sonic M3-600M are 600/1200 watts into 8/4 ohms respectively. The Hypex nc400 are, I believe, 200/400 watts into 8/4 ohms respectively.
I have a pair of D-Sonic M3-600M-A monoblocks, using the Anaview AMS1000-2600 power modules.
As I stated several times in this thread, I'm delighted with the sound quality of these amps.
I have not compared them directly with the Ncore 400, but with other well regarded amplifiers like the McIntosh MC601 monoblocks and Peachtree 220SE, and the D-Sonics never disappointed.
If you are going the DIY route, ProfusionPLC sells the AMS1000 modules as well as the wiring/connector kits. As the Anaview designs include the power suppply in the same PCB, assembling the box is a rather easy task.
You can find more information in the diyaudio site.
Also, depending on your power demands, you may also be interested in the smaller and cheaper AMS100, which also has very good specs. Several users have built mono amps with these modules in BTL configuration and are extremely happy.
It is now July of 2016. I just replied to another thresd from another member thinking of building his own DIY amp using the now older B&O 125ASX2 Ice amp module. It reminded me of this thread I started back in May of 2014. So, I just reread this thread and realized I never posted which amp I actually decided on. I thought any future readers may be interested as well.
In early 2015, I bought a pair of D-Sonic M3-600M monoblocks using the Anaview/Abletec ALC-1000 modules which deliver 1,200 watts to each of my 4 ohm, and still sweet sounding, Magnepan 2.7 speakers. Each amp is supported and isolated on custom Mapleshade stands with spiked cone brass footers. A very good review of these amps on 6Moons was my final impetus.to choose them and where the isolating stands were recommended. I paid just under $2K for the amps and about $500 for the stands which about equalled my $2.5k budget.
These amps are excellent with my speakers and I think would be a good match for any Magnepans. I've used some fairly good class A/B amps in the past (McCormack, Bryston and Aragon among others) and the D-Sonics outperform them all. The bass is the best I've ever heard from my speakers both in quantity and quality.
The D-Sonics have a very low noise floor which enables the music to emerge from a seemingly inky blackness, similar to my previous stereo class D amp (ClassD Audio SDS440CS) but unlike my previous class A/B amps.
I always paired my previous amps with a tubed VTL TL2.5 preamp to sweeten the mid-range, treble and add some dimensionality to the soundstage. The midrange, treble and the solid and stable soundstage illusion are so good with the D-Sonics that I no longer needed the VTL/tube assistance. I thought my beloved VTL, with NOS Mullard tubes, would always be a part of my system. But I felt I had to acknowledge what I could clearly hear and I sold the VTL to a friend.
The M3-600M's are also very detailed which I think helps in capturing the ambient sound cues that are critical in portraying a solid and stable soundstage. I believe the extremely low noise levels of these amps is a major factor in their excellent detailed presentation.
Another benefit I clearly notice with these amps is dynamic range. It may be due to the large increase in wattage (440 to 1,200 watts/ch), but my system now has much improved ability to go from soft to loud on both music and ht. This can be occasionally stunning on some content but I still really enjoy it.
Overall, these amps have exceeded my expectations and I highly recommend them, especially for planar speakers. I consider them a true bargain at $1,950/pair.
I still have not heard amps utilizing either the Hypex or Pasal modules so I'll refrain from naming them the best. I'll just state they're the best I've heard on my sytem thus far.
Just read these comments from Tim, and thought I may also provide an update with my experience.
I bought the D-Sonic M3-600M-A (pair) using Anaview AMS1000-2600 modules, back in October 2014.
Having heard many systems with excellent components, including very high end amplifiers, I found quite a strong performance and value in my D-Sonics.
Micro/macro dynamics, resolution, soundstage, tonal accuracy, are all at the top of the scale. But more important, there is a fluidity, an easefulness in the presentation as a whole, I only experienced in very high end systems.
For reference, my system consists of a computer running Foobar2000 application (where I do upsampling, DSP, room correction, DSD transcoding if I want). I currently have two DACs, a Benchmark DAC2 (Sabre 9018) and a Lindemann Musicbook:10 (AGK 4490). As far as speakers go, I'm using Dynaudio Confidence C1 Platinum, and recently sold a pair B&W 805S.
Finally, and this can be of much interest for many, I have in house since last June a pair of Nord One Up 500 Monoblocks. These are Hypex NC500 based amplifiers assembled in UK by Colin North.
The Nord amps can be ordered with the Hypex OEM input buffer, or with Nord custom buffer, which allows "op-amp rolling".
To make a good comparison, I ordered the Hypex OEM input buffer, as well as the customized Nord Buffer, with SI 994 and Sparkos discrete op amps. This way, I have three different options in the same amplifier.
I can provide more detail, but in summary, both Anaview AMS and Hypex Ncore are, subjectively speaking (no measurements done here), at the top of the current class D chain.
My current order of preference depends on the DAC, but in general terms would be:
1st: Hypex NC500 with SI 994 op amps and Nord input buffer. 2nd: Tie between Anaview AMS1000 and NC500 with Sparkos
op amps and Nord input buffer.
3rd: Hypex NC500 with OEM input buffer.
Clearly, the choice of both the DAC and the input buffer determines the preference. The class D power modules alone are completely neutral.
I find I prefer bufferless Anaview than OEM buffer Hypex.
I like the "tonally enriched" sound of the Nord buffer option.
I think that an appropriate buffer design for the Anaview could also provide the same result as in the Hypex.
I haven't been on Audiogon lately and just read your post. Thank you for your very interesting and informative post.
This thread has been active for a long time and I think it is a very good source of info for anyone contemplating the use of class D amps, whether purchased as DIY or as completed amps.
You stated about the D-Sonic M3-600M-A monoblocks using the Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules: "
Micro/macro dynamics, resolution, soundstage, tonal accuracy, are all at the top of the scale. But more important, there is a fluidity, an easefulness in the presentation as a whole, I only experienced in very high end systems." I probably don't have your level of experience with high end systems, but I completely agree with your description, especially the fluidity and easefulness of the presentation. I would only add the completely silent background noise level and the powerful dynamic range to my description of these amps.
You obviously like your Nord One UP-500 monoblocks utilizing the NC500 modules with both the Hypex OEM and the custom Nord buffer along with a few op amp choices. You sound like you're a bigger DIYer than I am, but I'm definitely going to research this further. I'm especially interested in a few things:
1. Comparisons between the performance of these newer NC500 versus the more established NC1200 Hypex modules.
The Magnepans are great but very sensitive to amps and room placement. From my experience they can be bright at times, especially when not setup correctly. I've owned a pair of 1.6qr's for over 13 years and still enjoy them.
Although I have yet to find an amplifier that paired with them like the LSA DK Design Group VS. 1 Reference Mk II. The tube pre amp/SS amp combo brought the maggies to another level.
I've had a few digital amps in the past, the original Nuforce (fist gen. can't recall the model) and the Tact M2150 XDM. The Nuforce wasn't very impressive, while the Tact kept be busy with its endless room correction software.
Lyngdorf TDAI 2200, apparently its a revamped version of my old Tact...
The Tact was extremely detailed and completely silent, but it lacked the midrange warmth, depth and bass of the DK VS.1 integrated, you just felt "there" with the DK.
I know the digital technology has progressed since then, Devialet made a big impact in the last years too. Maybe the hypex might just be that leap in technology that can compete with the rich tubes and SS combo.
A logical upgrade which I always considered was a Threshold SA/4e paired it with a tube pre amp. Similar to the DK VS.1 integrated.
Although it seems the new Nord Hypex amps with the buffer and op amps could be up to the test?? Could they compete with some of the finest SS amps that Nelson Pass ever designed?
Am I grossly overrating these new digital amps or are they in fact something to strongly consider against the tube/SS combo?
I have the ClassDAudio SDS470 with upgrade PS. I have been running it for almost 2 years and it has been excellent for reliability and sound. The SDS470 is a great high value bargain for sure.
I would like to try some Class D monos. The D-Sonics look great. Does anyone know what modules are in the Channel Island D500 MKIIs? The D500 MKIIs are built like a tank at almost 30lbs each.
The Nord One Up 500 look great too. The only concerns I would have with them is they seem to run a little warm. They only have balanced inputs, nice to have both. I read somewhere that they only weigh just under 10 lbs...maybe the case work isn't the greatest or maybe the lighter weight is a non issue.
From what I under stand the Atsah uses the oem input buffer so I assume it would sound the same or very similar to a Nord One. The Atsah is so light. it weighs under 5 lbs and is quite small.
darcam: "
I have the ClassDAudio SDS470 with upgrade PS. I have been running it for almost 2 years and it has been excellent for reliability and sound. The SDS470 is a great high value bargain for sure."
I agree that ClaaDAudio makes some very good amps that are truly great bargains. I haven,t heard your exact model but I own an SDS-440SC model from the same company and it's also a very good performer that has similar attributes to your description of your SDS470.
The only reason I decided to buy the D-Sonic M-600 mono-blocks was out of curiosity what other class D module based amps would sound like in my system and in no way due to any dissatisfaction with the SDS440. I do think the D-Sonic M3-600s are superior to the SDS440 on my system but think it may be due to the extra 800 watts of power more than anything else. I now use the SDS440 to power my rears and it's superb.
As to your questions about the class D modules used in the Channel Island D500 MKII and Acoustic Imagery Atsah 500 amps, I believe they both utilize the newer Hypex NC500 modules.
After all these years and more advanced technology (doesn't necessarily mean a better sound), wanted to ask if anyone can compare the older Bel Canto Evo2 amp to newer Pascal module amps or other new Class D amps.
I started with class d 5 yrs ago with nc400 then moved to the bel canto ref600m and recently got a red dragon s500 with a little more than 500 hrs on it all amps have been mostly with a bel canto pre 3.
I have found the pascal module in the s500 along with the input board that it has too be the best class d I've heard.
I'm hearing a more open and slightly warmer midrange with a sweeter more extended top end that has more air around the individual instruments.
The Ldr passive probably would be a good matchup with about any class d amp that I can think of.I never heard the evo so I can't comment on it.
I do remember hearing some of the early class d amps in the late 80's and through the 90's, Basically were very harsh and fatiguing.
Class d has come a long way but still needs to be matched up in a system.Just my opinion.
I have over 500 hrs on my S-500 and thought I might comment a little about it.I think it's a step up in Sound vs nc400 and ref600m,these are the 3 class d amps that I own and I have access to more through a local audio club where we lend and or borrow equipment or occasionally listen to each other's systems.
I have been using a bel canto pre3 with all the diff. amps just to make a even playing field,the pre 3 is a pure water no coloration preamp.
The S-500 is the best class d amp I have had in my system and it has the warmest most engaging midrange with very sweet nicely extended top end that has more air and separation with the individual instruments making the entire frequency range very coherent.The bass is equally as good maybe better than my other class d amps listed.
I borrowed a Nuprime st10 to try out and found it too be a very close match to the S-500,with the nod to the S-500 for the best overall sound especially the midrange.
Offcourse this is in my system with my ears and judging the musical presentation that I prefer.
The next test will be comparison with a modwright kwa100se that I have owned for a few years but I haven't used it in about 3 years,I have loaned it out to club members though.I know it's a very good amp but can it equal or beat the S-500,only time will tell.
I will agree with Kenny here... everything he mentions about the Red Dragon S500, is the same as I feel about it. In fact, this was the amp that finally unseated my modded Almarro SET amp that I ran for years. It's a great amp, and a steal for the $$.
Looking forward to the Modwright comparison Kenny!
Kenny do you confirm that Red Dragon S500 (with Pascal S-Pro2), sound better then Bel Canto Ref600 (with Hypex NC500) ??? Do you listen these amps side by side ??
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