Ayre and Cayin in the same breath is a bit of a stretch. Cayin is very good at it's price point, but not in the same league as Ayre, IMHO.
Dave
Dave
If I like sound of Ayre Integrated I would Like...
I am trying to get ideas of what Ingrted Amps I might need to look at before buying.
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Forget the MAC. It's an appliance, and every Mac dealer knows it. That's why they sell it...it's easy to sell. Great company, great service, great story, but they don't make high fidelity. At least not today. With Mac you are buying a huge nice box that looks like their products of 3 decades ago. Great marketing to the baby boomers. Anyone with ears and a reference of live music will immediately notice the colorations in Mac gear. The Ayre is far better, but you really don't get your money's worth. Ever look inside one? Not much in there. And if you are in manufacturing, you'll note clever cost cutting everywhere. No silk-screening on the rear panel. No anodizing on the rear. Tiny boards inside...connectors that are overcrowded together on the rear as if there is no space...it's a joke, really. The outside's nice, the overall design decent, and if you like the Ayre sound, then it's probably your best bet. You could do far worse. |
The perception that everything is over-priced and a lot of magic and voodoo is being sold has to do with whether or not you personally hear differences in components and whether those differences have enough meaning to you. On a very fundamental level, ALL components do sound the same (one can make out the tune) so how does one justify the price difference? So, if wine tastes like soured grape juice to you, it makes sense to stick with Welch's Grape Juice and avoid Petrus Pomerol Grand Vin. Who looks like the fool coming to a forum with a lot of serious enthusiasts to suggest that everyone is an idiot for spending more than you are willing to spend on "grape juice"? |
Dkzzzz said to Pubul57: "I got one answer from you, thank you. I also got a lot of spam. It is frustarting to waste so much time on the way to somewhat realistic sound only becaue this market is full magic, woodoo..." I see several good alternative suggested. I wonder what you're expecting. Ayre is near the top of the heap, so why not just buy that and forget about it. I think you're making more out of this than it's worth. If you like the Ayre and can afford it, then buy it. There's no need to worry about it, since there's nothing that's really going to blow the Ayre totally out of the water. Dave |
Dkzzzz, Rather then mumble about how bad the audio world is and wondering where all the good equipment is, how about you actually listen to a few pieces. There is very little out there that is bad, it's simply a matter of synergy. Reading about components on audio forms only should ignite a spark of interest, at the end of the day you have to listen. There are a few dozen good sounding integrated speakers on the market, most of which can sound quite terrible with the wrong source and transducer. Find yourself a good dealer or go and listen at shows. You'd be amazed at the results. You might even listen to more music. |
I had an AX7e. It's a great amp. I had it side by side with several McIntosh integrateds and found it to be cleaner and more accurate in the soundstage without sounding at all analytical. I went to a ARC VSi-55 and was happy with my choice. Tubes have a different texture that I find important. I also have a RWA sig. 30 that is really nice with great depth and soundstage but it's 30 watts. Good luck in your search. |
The Ayre AX-7e is worth every penny. You are not just buying a bunch of parts, but also an amazing design, a respected brand, superb assembly, and top-notch customer service. Oh, yeah...it sounds wonderful, too. Throw an L-5xe in front of it, and you've got a killer upgrade path. It's like when I hear people say "I'm looking for something that drives like a BMW." I respond, "How about a BMW?" |
perhaps you've never had Bill follow you around and bash your recommendations. I have. Perhaps that explains my lack of recognition of his attempt at humor. Yes, that would explain it. If I thought that were happening to me I might contact the person outside of the context of the thread and see if I could resolve it. As it is, it appears you are just doing to him what you don't like it is that you think he's doing to you. ...as you would have others do unto you, and all that. IMHO, dealers and manufacturers need to be very careful what they say on these forums. Perhaps that's unfortunate for those like Bill that just want to participate, but I think that they are held to a higher standard than us enthusiasts, whether they like it or not. I agree, in part. If I were a dealer I would be very careful about the image I put forth as it is very easy to misinterpret with only words on a screen to go by. As far as holding them to a higher standard, well, they're only human, and really, we are not in court here, lives are not at stake or anything. These are electronic boxes we're discussing. Not that far removed from a toaster or a waffle iron. It never ceases to amaze me how much of our egos we attach to this stuff (I'm not excluding myself from that statement). Anyway, sorry to hear that you've been feeling that way about Bill and hope you two can resolve it. Hey, I think I heard a few cats yawning there! |
Jax2, perhaps you've never had Bill follow you around and bash your recommendations. I have. Perhaps that explains my lack of recognition of his attempt at humor. A dealer doesn't have to recommend his own components to support his business if he's negative about the alternatives. IMHO, dealers and manufacturers need to be very careful what they say on these forums. Perhaps that's unfortunate for those like Bill that just want to participate, but I think that they are held to a higher standard than us enthusiasts, whether they like it or not. Dave |
Jax2 it was really funny about the paper bag and all, I enjoyed it. But don't get all serious to psychoanalyze the InterwebZ it makes cats yawn. Why no one recommended Integrated McIntoshes? Don't they have open treble and good flat output? I see a bunch of them here at under 2K. How would McIntosh Ingrtd compare to Ayre, sound-wise? |
Dave - My point was that I did not have any sense at all that Bill was pushing his wares. I didn't think in the context of this particular thread, and the content of his posts, that a disclaimer was necessary. Beyond that, and in general, I'd agree with you that a dealer should post a disclaimer when making specific recommendations (Bill made none, unless I missed something). I take it for granted that most folks might know Bill is a dealer, but certainly that may not be the case. PS I think most folks here have some sort of 'agenda', whether conscious or subconscious. It's part of being human - wanting to make all the stuff actually mean something, and creating some kind of attachment to that meaning. I do it myself. I can't help it, but I am very aware of it most of the time. I don't think that changes anything at all. So whether your agenda is selling your widgets, or making yourself feel important and self righteous (DkZX4) or entertaining (yes, I see myself in that mirror), there's always some agenda or other behind what you read here. Should we all have to post disclaimers at every turn? I know, this is a rather extreme viewpoint. Like our sunshiney pal who started this thread, I digress! |
Wow, our audio dealer friend Mr. Feil has really gone over the edge. In the interest of fairness, everyone should go to his site and check out his wares. Maybe that'll stop his trembling lip. I think Bill was being humorous, and I'm not sure what your point is anyway. Looks like he sells some nice stuff...Sorry, I'm missing your point. Exactly what are you trying to imply by this? I think this thread lost any sense of serious consideration long ago when Dkzzzz became so acerbic. I don't think folks are going to reference this thread for some solid information on buying and I doubt Bill was looking at it as an opportunity to peddle his wares. It would surprise me if Audiogon leaves it up very long, and Mea Culpa, god help me! |
I can get Jeff Rowland Concerta 250 on ebay for 4000-25% that would be about only $700.00 overpriced. Go for it dude. Give the Pimp your money and put this thread out of its misery. If you're going to drop over 4 large on a Concerta I'm not sure why you'd be hesitant to go for the Ayre at $2900 retail, and much less used. Oh yeah, it's hedious...and bloated! Better to look good than to sound like you prefer it. You could always listen with a paper bag over your head with two ear-holes cut out. You could first turn the bag inside out and tape a picture of the Rowland amp inside it and then you could look at that while you listen to the Ayre. I suggest implementing The Perch™ for enhanced enjoyment. That, and make sure to have Geoff Kait give you a phone call to get that new amp really living up to its potential. You can listen to some Grateful Dead and do some twirling on that The Perch™ - Hell, I'll give you the "savvy buyer" discount on a The Perch™ so you can tell everyone you didn't pay the bloated price that I usually charge folks. Dude, you'll be cooking with gas, laughing at those old geezers listening to their novelty tinker-toy tube amps, while you've got it all...at a very nice price....why I can just picture it now. |
>>If I understand the "argument," there are so many brands and so many models competing in the marketplace that the result is excessively high prices.<< You got it. What we really need here is another monopoly like AT&T had on telephone service years ago. One integrated amplifier for everbody and every application. That would bring the prices down. Ah, the good old days. |
But I digress. That, sir, is an understatement. This starting to remind of some very bad, and very long threads. Yes, I can think of a few other threads that if combined with what this one is well on its way to becoming, may combust and take out a suburb in Michigan. Fortunately many of those have been removed with extreme prejudice by Audiogon under great pressure from Homeland Securtiy. We ought to see if we could harness the power of a thread like this and heat a few thousand homes. |
Everything in audio world is overpriced. Ignorance of general audiophile is the sole reason we have 3000 different amps 300 different manufacturers who are trying to sell their "tuned-by-ear" or as I call it broken equipment at rediculous prices. That is why the prices are such. The same story is with speakers. Absolute majority of speakers are just awful and overpriced drek. But that is why we have experts who advise bumpkins on which broken amp to match with which poorly-designed speaker to get shitty sound. But I digress. |
I have a great sounding SS rig, but I can't help but wonder what the heck goes on in those little red glowing tubes in my secondary rig (Cayin A-50T). The sound is pretty sweet (into just B & W 685's). My next upgrade in my big rig was going to be the Ayre MX-R monoblocks but due to my little Cayin, I just may go with the Shindo (tubs). I know they're ineffecient, the heat issues, supposedly not the slam of SS but I am so taken back with this little Cayin, I now think I know what the big deal is about with tubes. I'd love to see a state of the art tube rig in my main room. I know I will need new speakers as well but what the heck. |