Taters,
My apologies for the lack of clarity. As I do almost all correspondence with e-mail I forgot he sent me his #.
When I initially corresponded with him it was e-mail only and I was inquiring about diy power cables. This was when the e- mail conversation went into conditioners and he just had a prototype returned from review and our group decided to evaluate. He sent me his phone # when I wanted more detailed info. I assumed it was on the site. I didn't realize it was not printed. Send an e-mail to him. Barring weekends, responses were prompt for me. Request the # if you want to actually converse. Jallen |
Forgot to include the e-mail. Chrisvh@vhaudio.com Jallen |
I do use both, but warrenh is soooo right on this.youll be amazed at what dedicated breakers and 10gauge cable can do for system.I do use hydra talos with 2 20 ampers.Wish i had done it years ago |
Wanted to give everyone an update. I'm having dedicated power lines installed first. Next will be an audition of Bybee and Audio Magic power conditioners.
Thanks everyone for all of your recommendations. |
Heavenly, you made a very wise choice on the dedicated lines. enjoy your tunes for awhile with your new electric; then call Jerry at Audio Magic. It's the beginning of your electric journey. |
amen...please let us know your revelations (heavenly).If your going conditioner in tandem with dedicateds,recomend passive unit? |
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will do. I'm waiting for my electrician to give me a price for dedicated lines. I guess the electrician I used has too much business because he is taking too long :-) |
no call back? never too busy in the service field for a call back. Get a new electrician. This is electrician 101. |
I agree.. it took me a couple to nail down one and even he was kind of well...just make sure they have credentials and you should be Good.Good 10 guage wire though!dont back down if you cant get slick to do it,my electrician looked like he was to fat to fit through the eves?!*he did a great job (with mw watching of course).man youll love it! |
I'm curious. Those of you who have tried multiple power conditioners and regenerators, have you tried the Monarchy Audio ac regenerator? How does it compare? |
The best power line conditioner is one that was not made for high end audio. It was made for commercial/industrial applications by a company called Elgar. It puts all 'high end audio' conditioners to shame.
By that I mean it can provide a perfect sine wave with a 28 Amp load (117V). No 'high end' conditioner can do that!
There are several problems that can be overcome. First is that its not being made any more but you can find them used through companies like Valutronics.
2nd, its mechanically noisy, but if you install it at your breaker box and run the audio room line off it there are no worries. An electrician may have to do this for you.
3rd, its not cheap, and may need refurbishment.
But it works the best and you can really hear the difference; universally better with all systems. No other conditioner can make that claim. |
Have you given any thought to requirements such as wire gauge, metal clad conduit, or Cardas receptacles?
You may have an issue from your supply before the dwelling. Ask your energy supplier about upgrading your amperage and what exactly gets replaced on the supply side.
You're going to be asking an electrician about issues they don't run into often if at all. If they keep saying that doesn't matter find another who shows an actual interest in your goals. Home Theater installers may be able to direct you. This is a relatively low expense project not to get right the first time.
Since every dwelling is different even your neighbors usage habits, such as shop tools and old refrigerators can have an effect on the quality of your supply. |
The guy that installed mine...he scratched his head and was confused...you want to do what?!?He went home and did a little home work and came back better prepared.Your right vicdamone.Hopefully he will install upgraded outlets,can be done after though huh! |
I had 4 dedicated 20 Amp outlets installed. Will be adding Maestro outlets to them as soon as they come in. I didn't need 4 outlets but while the guy was pulling cable I had him pull extra. My initial impressions with new line is about the same as before. Nothing ground breaking IMHO. I'm hoping the Maestro outlet will enhance sound. |
The Pure Power + series regenerators are by far the best "conditioners" I have ever used. I have owned two different PS regenerators in the past, as well as Hydra, Bybee, Walker, Sound Applications, and other conditioners. |
I found even the cyroed after market outlets do make difference,I went with the shunyatas,felt they would be par with pretty much anything out there.Dont know what to say if after that your not hearing substantial imp on sound quality...(wtf?)At the time i was burning in new conditioner...had kwi 200(300)hrs in though.My systen took quantum leap in clarity.Imediacy in bass,mids.deeper soundstage.i felt doing that was a bigger imp over any cable,ect.The power cond was noticable imp,matbe with the both that was the ticket??? |
In the period wenn I sold cables to people with highend systems I saw a lot of PS Audio regenerators. A few years later almost very person had sold it. Wenn I did ask why? Most of them were not convinced anymore. |
OK. Went to my mailbox today and my Maestro outlets had arrived. So I installed 2 of them, plugged things back up, powered on the system, and started listening. I must say WOW what a difference. Now I'm hearing what I call an improvement. I have way better low end from my speakers, much better detail from my amps. It is almost like someone removed a blanket from the music. When I play acoustic music it is as if I can feel the guitar. Vocals have much better weight to them. In my room the outlets made a huge improvement. I guess I could try the Maestro outlets on my original non dedicated lines to see how much of an improvement it makes but what's the point. I have already spent money on dedicated lines so there is no going back.
PS. No I didn't try tons of different outlets. I had used PS Audio outlets before and decided to go with Maestro outlets based on a recommendation. |
Thats good news heavenly.It will probably continue to improve through out the week.You are right dont look back,the fact that your system is on its own dedicated lines (to me) it was convincing enough...there was no doubt.The addition of the beefed up outlets to deliver current?I would as i said before try a passive type conditioner(imho).The point that made sense about ps audio regenerater was it was like a washing machine altering signal,differant strokes...believe your ears and not what people try to get you on board with what they are using,system dependent?What worked in my system,so much is just trying...next is room acoustics?thats were they head scratching come in. |
I just received my Plasmatron from vh audio and strongly recommend a listen before any big purchases. Mine has 4 Furutech Rhodium outlets and will manage 3 amps or approx. 360 watts. A preamp is usually pulling 60-90 watts a DA converter 20-50 watts cd player the same or less.
Sonically, you will just to listen for yourself. All I can say is a friend who just bought one is replacing his Synergestic power cell with the Plasmatron. I like it better thsn the Ps audio powerplant I compared it with. They are not cheap at about 4k. The build quality is superb. 5-6 friends also purchased one. None are returning them. They do have a generous return policy. When mine is broken in I will write a formal review. Jallen |
This is a fascinating and important discussion. One thing nobody has brought up is what happens when a sudden blackout occurs. I'm sure at least some components could be damaged, and that means $$$ in high-end audio. That's when battery backup such as the one offered by PurePower+ is priceless, IMHO, but I would like to hear from others. I use an APC S15 at home just because of this problem which is recurrent in our area, and if I wanted to upgrade it would be very difficult for me not to take this into account, no matter how much better sounding a pure power conditioner with no backup would be. |
The problem is not when the lights go out but when they come back on with a big surg od power and everything gets slammed. Usually a big DC thump which is great on tweeters. Surge protection is good, even at some marginal audio sacrifice. MOV's are effective but can allow voltage in excess of 120 -140V to slip by making components very unhappy. Jallen |
Jallen,
I look forward to hearing your impressions of the plasmatron. PM?
I have been talking with Chris of VH Audio, getting the lowdown --or what little they will tell about this bad boy! Hey, can't blame em for keeping its magic under wraps. But on the surface, it sounds kinda special. |
PS Audio works at 8 bit, this gives it a mechanical sound and less musical. I use a Kemp Powersource+, this one always win from any PS Audio in tests in europe.
It does everything right what you would hope for. Even for the biggest poweramps. More drive and difinition in the lowest freq. The mids are more open, much sharper focus and more air around voices and instruments. This filter does also a lot for the sound. It becomes more musical and sounds more realistic. I do not know any filter which has this quality in imporving. |
Jallen, just FWIW but the big spike usually occurs when the power goes out, not when it comes back on. Its the same principle that makes the spark plugs run in a car. |
Jriggy,
This weekend I will be traveling to a friends house to evaluate the PT3. We will be listening to Ypsilon preamp, CAT 200 wpc,monos and Berkeley DAC with TAD Reference speakers. Also evaluatimg at an Acapella/ Ypsilon system and a Legacy Whisper system. Should be exciting. I will keep you posted. I have only listened for 10 hours and loaned it to a dealer-friend and he heard it and bought one. They seem to be for real. We shall see how the test of time and rock to classical is perceived. All systems have the PT 3. Jallen |
Jriggy,
A few listening sessions are over. I will be listening more for the next several weeks and compiling them into a formal review to submit here. One thing for certain is that having TAD Reference with Ypsilon preamp/SME table/ Graham arm/ CAT monos, Berkeley/ Mac mini this is one of the finest systems I have heard at any price. The room is huge with a vaulted ceiling and the room is at least 600 square feet. The room is the size of the big demo rooms at the CES and RMAF shows. Cables were Synergestic with silver bullets. Full Synergestic room resonator treatment was also implemented. This set-up is an all out assault on high rez playback, a true "Reference" system if there ever was one. Worst part of the system? It wasn't mine, and winning the lotto isn't something I am planning around. I am grateful Nick is generous enough to let a group of philes hear a glimpse of Nirvana.
Regarding the conditioner, more time is needed before conclusions are reached. Jallen |
I just added a Furman voltage regulator/power conditioner to my system. My concern was the brown outs I get in my area but the combination of the two was a no brainer. I have a designated circuit but adding the Furman gave my system an upgrade which is very pleasing to the ears. It wasn't the most expensive but it's specs covered my needs.
Regardless what brand you prefer you will hear a difference not to mention the equipment protection. |
Ouch...Furman voltage regulator had too much current drop. Dang thing couldn't provide a steady 5 amp to the load side and it boasted a 12-15 amp load, live and learn.
It looked to be 'B' stock to boot, several scratches and a big blemish on the faceplate. Maybe it was the seller and not the Furman made in China. Think I'll shy away from both though :) |
If you want a good power conditioner, the very best made anywhere was made by Elgar. It is not an audio product, it is commercial/industrial. But it is high power, and can deliver a perfect sine wave at full power (28 amps). It is mechanically noisy, so it has to be installed at your breaker box and then the audio room AC power is then connected to it.
It uses a large isolation transformer, a low distortion sine wave oscillator that is synchronized with the AC line, and a feedback amplifier that is connected to a feedback winding on the transformer.
This is an expensive approach but it works, and other power conditioners are so much junk by comparison. Unfortunately you have to find them used as Elgar does not seem to make them anymore. Some are fairly old (over 20 years) and may have to be rebuilt, but if you want truly clean AC power this is the best way to do it. |
I use a Bybee Holographic and a friend of mine, with a more simple system, (1 source, 1 Air Tight ATM1 and a pair of speakers) is very happy with hie PS 500 Accuphase. |
JALLEN, we are still anxiously awaiting your promised review of the VH Audio "PLASMATRON".......... |
I'm surprised no more people talk about the Bybee Purifier or the Holographic. I have had for some times the first LessLoss Firewall and the Acoustic Revive RTP Ultimate. Both of them were great for my whole system including tubes mono power amps, but the Bybee is in another class.
I don't know why Bybee seems so controversial but if there is a place where they work it really is on power. |
I'm surprised no more people talk about the Bybee Purifier or the Holographic. I have had for some times the first LessLoss Firewall and the Acoustic Revive RTP Ultimate. Both of them were great for my whole system including tubes mono power amps, but the Bybee is in another class.
I don't know why Bybee seems so controversial but if there is a place where they work it really is on power. |
You should listen to the Tripoint Orion, or Emperor another class from the Bybee. |
Bybee Stealth v3, latest gens with Rhodium and Gold mix of outlets; I've been through a lot of power regenerators and conditioners, active, passive and balanced over the years. It's the best I've heard in real life to-date. I also pair it with an over-built dedicated circuit topology, sub-panel and Environmental Potentials EP2050 and EP2750 units. The combination punches way above its weight class to be certain.... |
Himiguel,
Heard the Orion and Emperor's price. Hope they sound better than anything else on earth.... Why don't you try building other than stratospherically priced products ? It should be interesting to compare equally priced components . This is where we can really compare know how of different builders |
