I would say you need to look into the bhk 300s... very amazing amps...
jc1s do not have the highs of the bhk 300s but They have better bottom end.
It all depends on what you want your speakers to do. I think with your speakers the bhk300s would sound amazing. You don’t need an amp with massive bottom end because you have powered woofers. You just need an amp with smooth highs and great mids and that’s what the bHks do best.
The jc1s are excellent amps even thought they are 14 years old. They are the best amps from parasound. |
Hi whitecamaross, I am new to the forum, but I have been following all of the posts of your journey. Excellent work on your part and very much appreciated. I have been searching for an amp for a couple of months and was hoping you can give me your opinion. I have the Goldenear Triton Ones along with the Marantz 8802a preamp. My old vintage Hafler Transnova 9500 lost the right channel so I am looking to upgrade. I am looking at 3 amps. I prefer this time to use monoblocks. First I am looking at the Ati 6002 which is a dual mono design in a single chassis. It got great reviews the only complaint was the lack of audio jewelry. Next is the Parasound JC1 it has excellent reviews still on Stereophile recommended components. But my fear is it has been around a long time since 2003, so I am wondering if it will be refreshed soon. Next is PS Audio BHK 300 it got good reviews, but not stellar like the JC1. I use my system 50 percent 2 channel listening and 50 percent home theater. I have 3 dedicated 20 amp lines in my system. Please let me know what you think would be the best match for my system. I know you had the 6005 and mentioned it doesn't do well at low volume. I noticed you now have a 6007 do you notice any difference between the two? When I first started my search my plan was to put the front channels on the 6002, and then buy a 6007 for the rest of the channels. Please let me know what you think. I am also open to any other recommendations as well. Thanks for all the help. Milkmaker1. |
Man, i can't believe how fast sounding is the bass. I have never EVER heard bass sound so articulate, coherent, tight, fast, with zero bloating. I am just really impressed here. I am like unable to get off my couch because i just feel like my ears can't get enough of this. |
Guys,
i just unpacked the CLX, threw them in room, connected the ati6007 amp with some cheap speaker cables that i had because my wire world silver 7 don't reach and cranked on my Pass labs xp30.
Wow, my jaw hit the ground within the first 10 seconds of listening. I have never heard a speaker sound so good in my room. These speakers have me with my jaw open and i am not even using the world class amps i have owned in the past.
I wanted to just post this real quick at how impressed i am about these CLX. I will come back with more feedback and give you my true opinion on these speakers. So far, holy sh@t is all i can say.. |
P.S.
I would echo the post on B.A.T. & LLam. BAT is very well heeled amp all around, top to bottom. the first word in BAT, Balanced says ita all with their SS amps. they work well with tube line stages either XLR or SE..
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Guidocorona > high damping factor designs being the bane of audiophiles is an urban legend... Blindjim > Hi G! Glad you’re still breathing. unmistakably. Too many factors rearrange the actual damping factor its incredible. Even the length of speaker wires! Frequency! Etc. Found this online about damping…. George L. Augspurger, James B. Lansing Sound Inc. Electronics World January 1967 Posted on Butler Audio site http://www.butleraudio.com/damping1.phpan easier read on this subject is here: https://trueaudio.com/post_013.htm"DAMPING FACTOR" by John L. Murphy Physicist/Audio Engineer whitecamaross OP > pass 200.5 vs 200.8…. blindjim > you indicate a noticeable difference here, mind briefly expanding on it? Their usual cost diffs too if possible. Also, thanks for such an involved journal on power amps, SS at least. As you have enjoyed some hybrids did you ever archive your impressions on them after rolling their tubes as well? Ever consider similar Euro hybrid amps, or for that matter Euro SS amps at all? Ypsalon Alias monos have really piqued my interest as did the PSA’s. a wide gulf separates them and I’m not talking about the water either. Moreover, $$$$ and designs. I suspect too, voices ought not be even close in terms of well, who knows, given you could buy two pr. Of the PSA’s for the price of one pr of Alias’? The Alias’ now have a recently released update. Never could I justify buying them new… but as pre-owned maybe. Thanks so very much. |
If you are serious about hearing Luxman's best sound, you should try the MQ-300 tube amp (assuming your speakers are efficient). Paired with the 900U preamp, the sound is MUCH better than with the 900U amp. |
Hi Sonicsmith, high damping factor designs being the bane of audiophiles is an urban legend... I have heard as many amps with high damping factors being utterly unmusical, as I have heard amazing music makers... My current amp belonging to the latter type.
Similarly, a low damping factor is but an alert to possible issues with speakers sporting very low or significantly erratic input impedances, but does not denote an absolute brickwall in supporting such speakers with elegance.
This is why only a substantial test in situ can determine if the BHK and/or the Luxman in question are synergistic with Camaross's new electrostatic speakers.
Besides... Electronics and speakers need to be broken in completely before a definitive evaluation can e made.
G.
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Damping factor/slew rate; one of those things that can be measured but does not matter. When a designer is foolish enough to design for high damping factor, they accomplish it with high degrees of negative feedback/looping which in turn kills off any sense of "aliveness". This is a consumer driven market in which many consumers buy with their eyes (reading measurements) rather than buying with their ears. |
BHK 300 amps appear to have a damping factor of 100. THis might be a little low, if indeed the speakers dip to an impedance of 0.7 Ohms. On the other hand, the Luxman amp being tube based, might find itself in some similar marginal territory.
But... Only actual testing in situ can tell for sure.
G. |
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I love the PS Audio BHK stack, but I am under the belief that the BHK amps are not particularly happy with low impedance loads. You might want to check with PS Audio.
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whitecamaross, I'm surprised, like others, at some of the brands you have overlooked in solid state, and one is Lamm (it only uses one small tube). Another would be Balanced Audio Technology. Have you ever considered these brands? |
Could be a great shoot out. Who knows maybe I bring that combo too.
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How about getting the Canadians in the mix with their 870a / 740p combo? |
Call the Russians. They will help out. : ) |
Ok 4 votes on the Luxman set up.. zero for PS Audio |
Luxman hands down. PS Audio doesnt make TOTL anything. They are a "value" for the money company. Their CD players/Dacs/Amps cant compete with the big boys...and are priced accordingly. I can get their equipment for about 50% of the list price |
You are the 3rd vote for the Luxman that I have received.... nobody is voting for the PS Audio huh ? The clx art drop down to .7 ohms so we shall see... |
Luxman will win...my bet. |
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Alright guys.. the xa200.5s depart tomorrow along with cremonese unless a pending sale happens before they leave.
That said, I will be bringing the ps audio
bhk300s with matching preamp and will compare against the luxman 900u amp 900U preamp (unless deal falls through). i will be doing a shootout between both companies. Who do you think will win ? The Japanese combo or the American ? This battle will be very interesting to say the least. The Clx speakers will certainly tell the story of which possesses the most detail, depth, detail, soundstage etc. Will 150 Japanese watts best the 300 American watts ? Will watts matter ?
Here we go again... things are about to get started and I know some of you will stay put to see if tubes can Best excellent solid state engineering.
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@whitecamaross
"Can’t maintain 2 threads. I prefer only one thread where people can follow my journey." Agreed. I was stoked to see it active and will be following along. |
I’ve owned McIntosh mc2301, MC275 mk6, PS Audio bhk300, audio research gs150. I’m quite familiar with their flavor but I also watch movies so I can’t be using a tube amp to watch movies and listen to music. Tubes are awesome but I think it’s for strictly 2 channel
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Have you ever ventured into tube amps? I have a Raven Integrated Reflection MK2 powering my SF Homage Amati Tradition that is outstanding. Love the Il Cremonese. Just a little to big. |
thanks Dave. I had to compromise a bit in order to get everything into place. I am having a good feeling about my new set up though and we will see what happens when it is all said and done.
My speakers, subwoofers and preamplifier have shipped today so i should be receiving those next Tuesday- Wednesday. The BHK monos are all built to order so there is a 2 week waiting period for those. I look forward to setting it all up.
I gotta be honest, i really wanted to keep my xa200s, but my connection needed them for a customer of his and in return he gave me a great deal on my gear so i guess the old saying "one hand washes the other" applied this time. Sometimes a few of my sources actually contact me because they may have a customer who is looking for something i might own and i am about helping those who help me. Done it many times for many of them which is why i am very thankful for all the relationships i have built throughout the past years.
With that said, i will have the bhk mono 300s, audio research gs150 and krell 403e to power my CLX speakers so i am very curious to see what will sound best. I will be using the pass labs xp30 and the ps audio bhk preamp and i will try to do all sorts of changes and see what happens. |
Excited for you for both of your adventures - your 15 year old babygirl and your audio gear. Nothing wrong at all with compromises - a great time to enjoy :-)
Dave
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I am not looking forward to packing my 200.5s, but i will have to do so this weekend. Anyhow, i guess i will go ahead and share with you the new set up that i have carefully selected after doing major research and obviously not allowing myself to lose a lot of the "greatness" of the Cremonese speaker.
Speakers:
Martin Logan CLX ART (black gloss finish which is a $7,000 option)
PS Audio BHK 300 monoblocks
PS Audio BHK Signature Preamplifier
Martin Logan BalancedForce 212 subwoofers (2 of these)
Having owned the Martin Logan Renaissance and truthfully loving them very much, i did not want to go back to them, but rather venture with the CLX art. I have called many trusted ears, asked many questions about the differences between the renaissance and CLX's and the answer keeps being the same: The CLX is just a better animal with bigger images, instrument separation, soundstage, space, width, etc and adding the dual subs to the mix will present an even larger soundstage with all the fullness needed in order to make a huge impact on the presentation.
I also had 2 people tell me they preferred the CLX over the Neolith which is very surprising.
I am not sure what to expect, but if the word is that the CLX is indeed better than the renaissance then it all points out to me having yet another impressive speaker pretty soon.
I decided to revisit the BHK 300 monos because back when i had them, the matching preamp was not out yet. I now want to use the matching preamp in order to create even more synergy. I will have yet another review of the BHK monos. It appears that the amplifier journey will start all over again, but now i will venture into other brands such as Dan Agostino, Jeff Rowland, Belcanto Black System, maybe pass labs 200.8s?
Stay tuned... |
Looking forward to it- whitecamaross.
Happy Listening!
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Can't wait to hear about the new setup!!
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Can’t maintain 2 threads. I prefer only one thread where people can follow my journey. Believe it or not, people still read this thread and message me asking for advice, etc. Starting a new thread will dimish the value of this thread that I’ve worked on for a very long time. |
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@whitecamaross
Since you’re starting over, May I recommend new thread? Unless ofcourse you’re chasing some kind of record, “number of posts in a discussion/thread”.
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Hi guys,
i love pass Labs amplifiers. That said, my set up will change drastically next week when I kiss goodbye my sonus fabers cremonese. These are indeed the best speakers I’ve owned hands down. Impressive is an understatement but unfortunately I have a 15 month old Babygirl that is starting to get curious and crawl and play close to these speakers and rather than having a bad thing happen, I decided to part ways with them. i will be going back to my second passion in terms of sound quality which are electrostatics. These are more durable and pose less risk of being damaged since the panels are so durable. Anyhow, I’m also parting ways with my pass labs xa200.5 Monos which are possibly the best amps I’ve owned in a long time. In short, I’ll be having new speakers, new amp, new preamp in about a week. I’m looking forward to this entire new set up which will be disclosed very soon. :)
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He's made his amp preferences very clear. |
Fantastic thread! It's like watching/reading a weekly drama play out...LOL
Ok so, could you possibly update the thread with your top 3-4 preamps and top 3-4 amps? It would definitely help me decide moving forward.
Thanks!
Ben
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Keep writing- whitecamaross
Happy Listening!
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Hi guys,
some of you have reached out to me asking for advice as far as equipment selection and set up based on your preference in terms of sound quality. Some of you love tons of detail, good vocals and don’t really need tremendous low end punch. Some others need more of a flat frequency range where no particular frequency gets boosted. I’ve also had questions about preamplifiers since I’ve owned quite a few as well throughout my journey.
That said, I can almost pin point to brand names and equipment selection with my eyes closed because of the vast exposure I’ve had to massive amounts of high end gear which in turn allows me to get great deals on many high end brands. I have a great relationship with dealers from just about every single state due to My constant purchases from many of them.
As a matter of fact I have a McIntosh MX160 procesos and the matching mc207 seven Channel amp that I received a few days ago and have not had a chance to set up plus a monster ati signature 6007 amp. I hope to share my thoughts on these sometime in the future with you all.
In short, sometimes I don’t really write anything on certain pieces due to my lack of time. I have helped AND continue to help many of you who are either just getting started in this journey and want to make a proper purchase or also help those of you looking to just add more flavor to the sound that you currently have in your system. Either way, I can pretty much help just about anyone interested in making the right purchase. It’s my pleasure to help but as long as you are willing to listen to my recommendations. That said, I have bought the vast majority of my pieces of equipment completely blindfolded without ever even seeing the gear in person. You all need to realize that some of the gear I’ve owned you probably won’t find a dealer near you to demo it. Sometimes All you can do is read about it and inform yourself and hear my thoughts on it. I won’t ever recommend something I don’t have personal experience with. My recommendations will be based on what I’ve owned and if I feel it meets your requirements.
If you want, You May continue to reach out to me directly if you have any questions or concerns about amps, preamps, etc, but be specific about what you are asking so I can be clear.
I will continue to update this thread with my personal reviews and sharing more new things as I continue this journey.
Who knows, maybe I end up doing a YouTube channel with my experiences and actually being to get paid by YouTube ! :)
Thanks ! |
When it comes to cables, try some Purist Audio Design ,especially Dominus and above
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Martin logan were superior but also 10,000 dollars more so not a fair comparison. |
Whitecamaross--from your comment on 9/15, do you prefer the MartinLogan to the Monitor Audio you had at the same time? |
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whitecamaross-
SF speakers are very musical indeed. They are a sonic match for tubed and solid state gear, a matter of taste. Keep me posted as you massage cabling into your system. The brands that you have tried, brands that you want to try is all imperative. I like Wireworld as well- very fast. I have heard the silver eclipse 7 power cord, it is a killer.
Happy Listening!
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I have the new Sonus Faber Amati Traditions and I absolutely love the sound. Prior to buying, I compared them to the Wilson Alexia / Magico S3 and S5 and liked the SF's better. I love the Cremonese but they were just a little to tall to pass the wife test.
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They are the speakers that continue to blow me away and let’s not even go over their looks which remain unmatched in my opinion. I was ready to give up on sonus faber after trying the olímpicas and Amati futuras until I was told I needed to hear the cremonese and so I bought them and had an insane amount of uneasiness because I didn’t know how much I’d like them and well as soon as I played my first song through them, I was floored. They sound HUGE and soo detailed and clean sounding with an outstanding midrange. I love what they do for me and my listening preferences. I despise speakers that sound great with classical music and jazz or acoustic music but fall apart the moment you play some music with a beat and slam. Two examples of these speakers are magicos and rhaidos. I don’t need a huge speaker in my room that can’t handle my music choices and throw down music when I’m in the mood but also play with delicacy if the music calls for it.
Once I brought the xa200.5s, it was even another layer of music that I can Hear through them.
Speaking of the xa200.5s, I had a conversation with Kent over at pass labs and he said the 200.5s are even superior to the 160.8s. He said if we were to compare the 200.5s vs 200.8s, it comes down to your taste and what you love the most. One isn’t really better than be other. They just pass the music in a different way and it’s up to the listener at that point. Essentially what he said is that the 200.5s and 200.8s are too close in terms of sound quality and one isn’t better than the other. It’s really all about your equipment and taste. |
FWIW, I heard Il Cremonese at RMAF last year in a tiny, far from ideal room and though they sounded really, really good.
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MY OPINION: having owned sonus Amati futura and Olympica 3s, they were the most lethargic, anemic and non dynamic speakers I've heard. I also heard the new sonus Amati tradition and they sound better than the other 2 models I mentioned.
That said, the cremonese DEMOLISH and SQUASH all of the above. It's actually a laughing matter. Not even close in any category.
The only other speaker that left me with an amazing impression was the Martin Logan 15a.
I will say it again, in my opinion the best speaker for the money that sonus faber currently manufactures is the cremonese. I heard the Lilliums and they did not have the same attack and low end punch than the cremonese due to the upward firing woofer which relied on a low ceiling and the Aidas are the old sonus faber sound which is very laid back which is why they are getting ready to replace it with a new model.
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So the WhiteCrossMan opines that every Sonus Faber speaker below the $40K+ Il Cremonese sucks? One of the most respected loudspeaker manufacturers in the world produces ’crap’ if they can’t fetch $40K retail for their product? Really? That’s a suspect marketing strategy if true, not sure how effective that works in the real world. Business sense suggests just drop the entire product line below the Il Cremonese given its inherent lack of competitiveness. After all, throwing good money after bad never works, not as a consumer, certainly not as a manufacturer.
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So far i have discovered that the cremonese sound FAR BUT FAR SUPERIOR when biwiring them using the xa200.5 monos. It is like they send you a level of information that is incredible.
I am still playing with wire world silver eclipse and eclipse 7. The results are very good, but of course i don't really have anything else to compare it to.
In terms of sound, i have never ever heard my set up sound this good. It is like someone gave me a new set of ears to be honest.
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whitecamaross-
good to read that you have settled on your gear , moving forward toward cabling. Considering the level and caliber of gear in your system, cabling, is imperative. Take your time in this process. Keep me posted on the brands that you audition and interactions on your gear.
Happy Listening!
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Does Ayre still insist on using Cardas with their equipment at shows, stringreen? I was in the their room with Fremer (well, not "with" but at the same time, lol) at a RMAF right after the debut of their turntable and felt that those cables killed the sound of their equipment.
I know what that gear can do as I own some of it. Could not previously imagine Ayre gear sounding completely lifeless.
Again, I have not heard Cardas’ latest cables but frankly don’t care to.
Dave |
No Ayre on the list??? too bad
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