CD Got Absolutely Crushed By Vinyl

I am glad people are starting to listen to digital more.  More records for me!

Without going though all the posts,imo it's the source material used and how well it was recorded.

Yes, I spent the equivalent of $22K, a VPI TNT VI plus, modified SME IV, Benz Ruby 3, Townsend Seismic Sink, Audio Interface SUT and phono pre-amp.   My CD players cost $6K (EAR Acute) and $150 (mod. Pioneer DVD D-05).   Plus additional ICs and A/C cabling.  Vinyl often better than equivalent CD but 90% of CDs sound great versus 20% of vinyl (I have many U.S. pressings of Angel and Columbia labels, (all inferior to CD remasterings) for instance.  .

Don't forget  phono stage  is the most sensitive/ delicate part of the entire set up. If your phono amp creates early stage of noise it can be multiplied several times you can have awful lot of noise. Which you may not find in digital set up. One has to spend many time the bucks to have a good vinyl set up. I also find if one has a good tube amp and preamp set up you could achieve pretty detailed sound.Never the less to say vinyl will have better detail but at a very high cost. If you are a person like me, listening to couple hours, nothing like changing digital  music to your taste right on your device.This is relaxation not LAZY.
With vinyl you not only need a good cartridge, you need a good turntable, good phono stage . I presently have a Rega p3, with Othofon quintet black cart($850) with simply phono preamp ( $2200) still its not good enough for me. I will need to spend about 10K to get what I want.

Dear @sleepwalker65 : When in any system the overall set up was made it in specific for the digital alternatice can shows at its best then the analog alternative in that same audio system will performs with a higher quality level as never before.

Yes, we must to try it ! ! !  and learn on that specific regards.

R.

Analog lovers: Please read/see first the system of this gentleman and after that read what he posted in that " if.. " thread:

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/682

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-what-if/post?postid=1706764#1706764

and his cartridge is a superior one that maybe only a few of you have that cartridge quality level overall performance.

R.

Btw, if for you or any other analog lover the CD in the audio system can't at least even the LP quality overall performance then  there is a serious/critical problems with that system ( somewhere in one or some of thelinks in the system chain. ) whole set up or the quality of the CDP on that system.

Personally I don't care what's wrong with you or any other anti-digital analog lovers. What I post here and elsewhere on this and other MUSIC/audio regards is only expose facts not just opinion or what I or don't like because what you or me like is unimportant.

The star is MUSIC nothing less nothing more.

R.

Dear @sleepwalker65 : You started in this thread a " battle " that just before your OP you had totally lost. No matter what.

You read the " other turn around thread "/opposite to this one and seems to me that unfortunatelly you did not understand all the facts posted there that unequivocally says that it’s vinyl whom is " dead " in the very first moment that appeared the 20/96 DACs.

" CD is CD. What you put in is what you get out. If you are trying to compare another format to vinyl, that’s a different discussion. """

it’s incredibkle that you still want to win when you can’t do it. Your statement is an example of that and my answer to it is with other example:

what needs a LOMC device for you can listen a sound coming from your speakers or a MM cartridge?, exactly it needs an analog rig.

Well CD with out a CDP is just a CD where as with the cartridges can’t gives you any sound through your speakers. I hope you agree with all those.

Your way of thinking on the CD/LP subject is a dead way of thinking and you are not alone , all those gentlemans that " die for vinyl " are like you: totally wrong and not because I say that but the facts in the other thread that I linked in this thread. Where are your and the other vinyl lovers ( I’m a vinyl lover but I understand the facts/reality. ) facts other that " I like it ". You have not a single one and is not your culprit because those facts on vinyl just does not exist ! ! !

Btw, do you already bougth the CD/LP I posted the link through amazon?, no: what are you waiting for: there you can find out facts not inexistent " illusions "

Here other facts: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=alita+black+angel+cd&i=music-intl-ship&ref=nb_sb_noss

I’m waiting for the LP.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=the+house+that+dirt+built&i=music-intl-ship&crid=1WYLJ39MKLS92&am...

The House....


https://www.amazon.com/s?k=angels+%26+demons+original+motion+picture+soundtrack+cd&i=music-intl-...

We all need to learn and for that each one of us need to have a positive attitude that permits that each one of us can be willing to learn, willing to grow-up to move on.

On the CD subject you are living in 1965 but remember yhat in reality we all are living in 2019 with 2018 CDP.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Please keep the unfounded rumors coming.  They just serve to depress further the bargain basement prices of used CD's massively available on Amazon and elsewhere.  Each month I pick up classic performances and obscure repertoire for pennies on the dollar.

@tomcy6 sleepwalker, reality check:https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-what-if 

Tomy  the only person needing to do a reality check is you. 

“CD is a dead media format”. 

CD is far from dead....if we are talking about mainstream then CD, Vinyl, Tape all are pretty much dead formats. As @fleschler pointed out there are many releases of great recordings are being put out on CD’s. One reliable source of remastered great sounding CD’s is Elusive Disc, they got very nice collection of rare jazz and classical recordings. 

Anyone who thinks CD is CD, check out Dexter Gordon’s - A Singin’ Affair XRCD.

Several cd player manufacturers have buffers that rewrite the dics until  "bit perfect' then play

Plus, I keep mentioning the fantastic historic performance reissues on labels such as Marston at bargain prices for rare recordings in great sound, better than I can achieve on my 78 rpm set up.

CD is not a dead format.  Many great remasterings are happening and have happened in the past few years.  I keep finding superior sounding recent reissues of Jazz and Classical on Amazon at great prices.  E.g. Monteux's famous RCA Sleeping Beauty recording.  I have 3 vinyl issues, including a 1s/1s but the bass is not the best and the vinyl pressings are not quiet, hurting the delicate parts of the music.  The recent Australian Eloquence release, while missing a touch of ambiance (could be from being a 60 year old tape) has superior bass and is nearly totally quiet background.  A great CD release.  I've found that the Eloquence series sounds better than most Decca CD reissues  E.G. all of the Albert Wolff recordings.

Chakster:

If you have no passion for records why do you need a turntable?
It’s never too late to start, but it’s not about quality as much as you may think (especially with entry level turntable), it’s about record collecting, digging, it’s more like a life style, an expensive hobby.

sleepwalker,  reality check:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/vinyl-what-if

@rauliruegas 

But at the end we are talking of digital against LP/analog alternatives. Remember too that today CDP comes with 32/384 DACs or at least 24/192 and this is a characteristic that makes everything different when you listen to any CD. 

CD is CD. What you put in is what you get out. If you are trying to compare another format to vinyl, that’s a different discussion. 

Dear sleepwalker65: The H.Zimmer link for the CD and Vinyl.

But at the end we are talking of digital against LP/analog alternatives. Remember too that today CDP comes with 32/384 DACs or at least 24/192 and this is a characteristic that makes everything different when you listen to any CD.

R.

@rauliruegas 

Do it a favor and don't be foolished by vinyl, no way my friend. Today year 2019 digital is way superior to and from here ahead the digital distance between it and vinyl will be wider and wider because analog developments stopped to grow up as technology several years ago and digital is still growing up and even we can think is endless in this trend. 

You you didn’t get the point. This is a debate on CD vs Vinyl. Not DSD vs Vinyl. CD is a dead media format. Vinyl is still in production and increasing at a compound rate every year. 

I used a Tandberg 310? to make live performance cassettes when I couldn't drag me Tandberg 9100 to the site.  Although the cassettes sound good, the RR recordings were better and with much lower, unobstrusive tape hiss at 7.5 ips.  Now I have a Pioneer 1500 which I can record at 15 ips but I prefer (as do others) the convenience of the Tascam digital recorders at 96/24.  I prefer the digital recordings to the cassettes overall.  The cassettes did have a wonderful, warm sound presentation.  The digital recordings are more immediate sounding and noiseless.

Dear @sleepwalker65:  This CD not only crushed vinyl but crushed your room/system if these are not up to the task:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00QDX05A8/ref=tmm_acd_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&...

Do it a favor and don't be foolished by vinyl, no way my friend.  Today year 2019 digital is way superior to and from here ahead the digital distance between it and vinyl will be wider and wider because analog developments stopped to grow up as technology several years ago and digital is still growing up and even we can think is endless in this trend. Don't you think?

R.

Simon,
For the MQA orientated...?

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/05/mqa-explained-everything-you-need-to-know-about-high-res-aud...

Nothing to add other than media preference is an individual choice.

I prefer vinyl because I've always enjoyed it. But also too, 99% of the music I like will never have 24/96 rips so for me its cassette (which I hated in the 80's except for making mixes for people), vinyl, cd (which I do not care for) or lossy streaming.

I will say that vinyl is the least convenient, but I will also say that its sexy as hell when all shelved up. Conversely, having all your music in the cloud is a wonderful thing (its how I do movies).

Despite being sick of this conversation, I will still add my input. 

To start with, I am a fan of both analog and CD (and digital in general), so I have no real horse in the race. Both my analog and digital rigs are on the higher end of the spectrum, without being exorbitant prices.

 CD does some things better than LP, LP does some things better than CD.

The one obvious place that LP has over CD, is image and soundstage quality.

The reason for, is because 16/44.1 does not have the resolution to accurately reproduce the human auditory system's ability to hear very small interaural time differences. Humans can hear ITDs as low as 7 microseconds, but 16/44.1 is only able to reproduce ITDs of about 22 microseconds. 

Hi Res digital, especially 24/192 and DSD does not have this problem. 

Interaural time difference is our evolutionary survival tool to accurately place noises in space (behind, in front, to the right, to the left, and distance away). We evolved this ability to be able to discern where possible danger is, so we are more likely to run away, than toward it.

I have a decent sacd player but I have most of my investment in vinyl playback so its unfair. Digital can sound pretty good these days but I am older and grew up with vinyl and I have many records so that is what I listen to most of the time. Analog does sound more involving to me than CD but like I said, I have made the investment.  That said, I do not like the reissues of most lps.  for the most part, they lack the soul of their all analog counterparts.

Yeah, but I heard that most music has been recorded digitally for quite a while now. Older analog tape recordings are often converted to digital for mixing and mastering too and once all that analog information has been lost you can’t get it back.

@krell_fanVinyl will always sound better than red book simply because it is pure analog without conversion from analog to digital and back. 

I used to believe it was impossible for digital music to sound as good- let alone better than vinyl. But I defy ANYONE in an apple to apple comparison to tell me a vinyl record sounds better than a red book CD ripped bit perfect to a Mac using Pure Music software with a PS Audio DirectStream DAC as the source. And a double defy a person to prove that any record can sound as good as this same CD played on a PS Audio DMP player (transport only). 

found a review

 https://www.stereophile.com/content/machina-dynamic’s-new-product

another ear crusher and another insight: last night I played Wilson Philips, 3 women with high voices combined with piss poor mastering, which I can only play when making changes, though it is now sounding better.

What was especially exciting, I was able to hear the emotion in their singing

I owe it to New Dark Matter

A Benz Ruby 3.  

Yes, Geoffkait, I don't believe my audio system is the best; however, it is among the most enjoyable.  My resolution, imaging and ambiance retrieval are not as good as many inferior systems but when taken as a whole, it is better than most audiophiles.  So many have systems in constant flux, constantly changing components.  I view my audio system as a system, carefully put together to create synergy.  

My current project is to build my new listening room in my new home.  It is a great challenge and will go against common conceptions.  I will be using carbon filters in the 12" cabinet size walls for the bass which apply to frequencies from 30 to 125 Hz, the fundamentals.  The exterior and interior finishes are to provide support for the bass.  No bass traps will be required.  Do to cost restraints, I will be using a wide frequency acoustic foam unlike most foams and geared toward the cherry plywood interior wall finish.  I hope it works.  My current room was based on traditional dual drywall, staggered stud, wide plate criteria.  Both current and future rooms will have 6" minimum engineered slab foundations.  

The new room won't have anything but seating and equipment.  My current room has 42,000 LPs/78s/CDs (in metal drawers).  So, huge difference.  I'll post the results after I move in.

@fleschler 

 I haven't changed my components from 10 to 30 years (SME IV and VPI 19-4/Ultracraft are the longest in my system).

What's your phono cartridge?

Last night I put on Jennifer Nettles "Playing with Fire{". It is one of those excellent music horrible mastering/recording cds

I use it to test new additions, like New Dark Matter. The improvement was/is amazing, though it is not capable of turning poor recordings into proper remasters , it is now much more listenable, as are good recordings

sleepwalker

polarity, ESPECIALLY when discs are mastered in various locations (ie Greatest Hits)  OFTENTIMES is all over the place, from song to song

I flip a lot of kit, always try to get a pre or dac with polarity inverting switch (often miscalled phase), alas many/most manufacturers are/seem clueless

The biggest offender seems to be in the bass

 

I hate to judge before all the facts are in but it appears to me you really took my statement to heart ❤️- “I never met an audiophile who didn’t think his system is the greatest.” 😀

Question, are you stockpiling eMats now? 🙄

I've had audiophiles over who have $850,000 and $1,000,000 systems and the former one's system stunk even though the owner only felt that it was a little bright (I would have quit listening to music is was sooo hard, bright and forward).  His jaw dropped when he heard my system.  Oregonpapa and Robert know how awesome my main audio system is (from these forums).  Oregonpapa's system is excellent too!  Our systems cream 95% of all audio store and show systems.  Until I move, I have a 5,000 cu ft room to really let my big speakers sing out.  So, when I say CDs can sound as good as analog, there's knowlegable audiophiles and music lovers who agree.  It's a thrill having people get goosebumps listening to my music.  They stay for hours and don't want to leave.  That's a system playing engaging sounding music.

It's true, audiophiles often don't know what music should sound like reproduced in a listening room but they think their systems are excellent (although look how often they change gear).  I haven't changed my components from 10 to 30 years (SME IV and VPI 19-4/Ultracraft are the longest in my system).  I use tweaks to get the most out of the equipment despite their "age."  

Please note I said untreated CDs on stock systems. We’ll get there eventually....😛 I never met an audiophile who didn’t think his system was the greatest. 

Yes, I meant the vertical soundfield.  My mistake.  As to depth, wow, I've got as much depth as intended by the recording engineer.  CDs can sound awesome.

fleschler736 posts02-05-2019 6:24pmI was just listening to Ramsey Lewis Trio "In Chicago" on CD and the bass on the left channel is constantly moving up and down horizontally, just like the LP, both mono and stereo versions. Also, the 3D soundfield of orchestral recordings sound just like my LPs. Who says that CDs don’t reproduce the horizontal soundfield? That’s just dumb.

>>>>As far as I can tell noone says CDs can’t produce the horizontal soundfield. Maybe you meant vertical not horizontal, hard to tell. Moving up and down horizontally kind of doesn’t make sense. When I say CDs generally sound two dimensional I’m referring to depth mostly, but also just plain blah.

I was just listening to Ramsey Lewis Trio "In Chicago" on CD and the bass on the left channel is constantly moving up and down horizontally, just like the LP, both mono and stereo versions.  Also, the 3D soundfield of orchestral recordings sound just like my LPs.  Who says that CDs don't reproduce the horizontal soundfield?  That's just dumb.

P.S. The 1980s CD players generally sounded just like Geoffkait described bad players, except for a few like the Kyocera 310 and 410 units which sounded lush and analoglike, lacking in the deep bass.  I have several of them which I purchased cheap 15 years ago when they were already obsolete to repair.

“Question : is 3D Soundstaging better on LP or CD?”
(Please note one should first mention the global disclaimer : “No height information is captured in stereophonic recording”.)”

>>>>>I got as far as that comment. I’m out. Of course height is captured in the recording. Why wouldn’t it be? Height is just another one of the 3 dimensions. Otherwise, it would be a 2D soundstage. Hel-loo! Reverberant decay occurs in all three dimensions. You can’t stop it. There are many reasons why CDs do not sound as good as they could on playback systems, as I’ve been preaching recently, two of the leading culprits are lack of isolation and scattered laser light problem, that until very recently has not been addressed or even acknowledged. Plus I’ve always maintained untreated CDs in stock home systems generaliy sound two dimensional, whimsy, compressed, rolled off, bland, bass shy, unnatural, and like paper mache.

“Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take arms against a sea of troubles.”

BTW the aforementioned comments are not “tribal”.
If I see someone eating biscuits with a chocolate-flavoured coating I will tell them it doesn’t taste as good as real chocolate.

(P.S. Anyone who actually prefers chocolate-flavoured coatings to real chocolate is a pervert. ;) :D

TBH I would have assumed anti-phase made no difference had not people testified that switching to normal phase made their CDs sound more equivalent to vinyl(!)
I’ve always striven to ensure that all elements of the systems I used were “phase correct” and that’s pretty much it.

I regret if I had read through George’s notes concerning “inverted polarity” before trawling through a shedload of LPs & CDs and making my own notes I wouldn’t have bothered writing all of this(!), however I still believe it is relevant. :(

Question : is 3D Soundstaging better on LP or CD?”
(Please note one should first mention the global disclaimer : “No height information is captured in stereophonic recording”.)

What is helpful about the 3D aspects of audio reproduction is that, on my main system at least, they are easily, “quantifiable” and “demonstrable”.

Initially, I had decided to focus on what one might call extreme examples which are rarely heard from typical sources.
The “Voice of God” moment on Michael Moorcock's "New World's Fair" is one such example. This particular voice is differentiated from others on the album in that the vinyl version projects this voice in an extraordinary way, very distinct from the mic-ing and processing used elsewhere in that production and indeed from the countless other examples of 3-dimensionality within it.
His voice appears as a wholly realistic, corporeal, tightly focussed, tangible ball of sound manifesting itself in the EXTREME TOP LEFT HAND CORNER of the room.
(Note : The bottom corner is over 5ft from the speaker).

It’s hard to say what the Sound Engineer was striving for in the studio when effects were added and indeed “3D impressions” from 2.0 are not often discussed in Forums because few folk have verifiable or all-encompassing opinions on how they are contrived. It’s unlikely that a “vertical dimension” or some sense of “scale” was the engineer’s primary goal but my guess is he was hoping to hear a noticeable difference sufficient to make it stand out(!) I can only report that when reproduced through planar speakers it is quite spectacular!

Now, I just happened to have an ostensibly "well recorded" version of the album on CD in addition to that *standard* LP so there was no reason to feel initially prejudiced against the CD.  ;)
I was curious to see whether it manifested the aforementioned 3D effect...or at least made the listener aware of the difference?
A reminder first that the point here is not to guess the ultimate goal of the recording engineer but to decide whether the recording engineer’s efforts were well enough represented to be actually NOTICED or not!

So how was this purposely “differentiated” voice rendered on CD?
Disappointingly, the voice appeared just centimetres outside the TLHC of the speaker frame rather than metres! In fact, decidedly UNdifferentiated from normal vocal presentation which would routinely appear at that height and location (choruses, harmonies, multi-voicing etc).

Note : For these tests I was using electrostatic line sources. A quick explanation of how my particular ELS sources work might help : A pure electronic sound with no “effects” will appear to emanate directly from the centre of the panel, regardless of room acoustics! When the sound engineer adds “effects” it will change location  in any/all of 3 dimensions. The evidence of Cause & Effect is quite clear but this is not to imply that room and speaker interaction are not also involved.
These subtleties will be either reproduced in a dramatic and/or quantifiable way or they won’t.
Conventional speakers can also do this, perhaps not with the same precision/magnitude. The important thing to remember is that it all starts with the source/master. The speakers and the room can only work with what you give them.

Even allowing for the influence of different loudspeaker systems and rooms, if I had always been a CD-only listener to classic albums and such was the only viewpoint I was getting, I would be concerned I was missing out on something in the general sense (at the very least being made AWARE and able to appreciate Engineering intervention within the performance).

The next example is more “geometric” than the first but it's a cracker!!
(I can even provide the time stamp for those who own the CD album and wish to try the A-B for themselves, with or without conventional speakers.)
It concerns a Jan Akkerman guitar solo on the Focus album “Moving Waves”. Many A’Goners will have a copy of this item.
This 3D example is hypnotic on vinyl. The solo guitar’s panning and movement describes a perfect rectangle in the vertical axis. Quite eerie “watching” a guitar climb from panel centre to the top in a perfectly straight vertical line (a distance of approx. 2ft) then pan horizontally to the top of the opposite speaker where it would descend, slowly, by 2ft etc.
To summarise, the pattern that the guitar describes is a vertical rectangle 7ft wide x 2ft high. Clearly defined and easily capable of being followed.

How did the CD fare on this test? Again the CD appeared to register some movement of the guitar at “tweeter height” and it DID end up traversing from one speaker to the other but there was something strange going on. I was unable to pick up on the initial “vertical” movement of the guitar. Also, my ears struggled at times to “lock on” to the guitar sound and track its movements during the horizontal panning. It took a few moments of re-winding to realise that the vertical “pan” had started only a few inches below the first turning point.

So, in summary, the guitar, on the CD, was describing a vertical rectangle 7ft wide x 3 or 4 INCHES high...
(Note that everything else in the soundstage also fell along this axis/line therefore one could summarise the presentation as 2-Dimensional.)

I played a few more “well recorded” CDs derived from the 70s era, Kate Bush etc. Interestingly, as above, all instruments and voices coalesced at “tweeter height”, decidedly 2D. Even “sidewall” sounds projected beyond L & R stage were at this height. A line could be drawn across the room from wall to wall! I was beginning to wonder if the system was actually working properly(!)

Time to switch to vinyl to see if this disturbing “consistency” was reflected there...
It was as if the fetters on the soundscape had been inexplicably released. Suddenly there was no “restriction” in the vertical sound field. It was instantly audible, accompanied by a palpable sense of relief.
Conversely, switching back to CD, the “flatlining” of the soundscape was instantly audible. Plenty of depth just no height.

Mastering may cover a multitude of evils but the trend that we’re seeing here gives the impression of being associative with each medium. I’d also hate to think they were mastering (digital) to be specifically replayed through headphones or something as exclusive as that. It may be that in the case of “true analogue”, we are seeing the vinyl capture an event close to the TIME of it’s inception (if you purchased the LP at the time of release) while the CD transcript was “captured” decades later from the original tape/s.
Just speculation. Whatever is going on here is not easily explainable but it’s effects are easily described.
Of course, all of this hinges on whether you personally consider a flattened 2D soundstage a disadvantage or not. If you love 2D - and I don’t - then you only need concern yourself about the subjective SQ.

“3D” and “2D” descriptors are generalisations and as with all things you might occasionally hear exceptions. One significant exception seems to be classical music in general where both formats appear 2D. Not sure why, perhaps the distance perspective as well as the technique.
General listening to both formats also suggests that whole tracks recorded in specific studios have their own idiosyncrasies (from a 3D viewpoint).

It seems, from the tests I’ve performed so far, that the subtle contributions by the Sound Engineer which generally enhance your appreciation of the musical event/performance can be posted missing from CD (even the best ones).
For CD aficionados, I guess it’s a case of what you never knew won’t hurt you. ;)

Despite knowing that digital recording is as capable as any other medium (I personally use digital recording too) this is a reality of how classic albums are rendered by the 2 formats. IMO it would matter little even if someone came up with a lossless True HD Blu-ray version of it, the observational differences would, in all likelihood, be the same not to mention the immediacy issues and the sense of the vocals etc being fully “fleshed out”(in fact I've even demonstrated that problem in other A-Bs but that's a story for another day).

The bottom line is that whilst *every* vinyl album I tested will exhibit 3D sound (even the crappiest ones), you’ll have to work hard to find a CD that doesn’t sound 2D. For the bulk of music that we “old-timers” prefer this isn’t satisfactory.
So, the next time someone who favours vinyl insists that they hear “more interesting content”, or say it’s, “like listening in Super-Cinemascope”, cut them some slack, they’re probably right... ;)

This “polarity” nonsense is bull. Either the two channels are in phase with each other or they’re not. Simple as that. 

No shirt, Sherlock! 

I've been reading on line concerning absolute versus inverted polarity. Let's say my CDs are mostly (92%) inverted polarity. They sound great. Why? Maybe my equipment, speakers and/or CD player make polarity inversions whose end result inverts polarity. The combination of an inverted polarity CD and an inverted end result from the audio system equals absolute polarity, where two mistakes make it right. So quoted in http://www.absolutepolarity.com/   

Fleabay also protects its “preferred” sellers from negative feedback, even when warranted. There’s really no recourse to punish a bad fleabay seller once they’ve reached a certain status with them, so PayPal is your best friend. 

I did not know that the seller could not leave negative feedback after the order was paid for.  I've been threatened twice with negative feedback after telling the seller that the record was in garbage condition (one looked fine but had one channel carved out/distorted by some reckless user and another had a 1000 pops/clicks and also looked NM).  Maybe I'll start buying a few more records on ebay again.  At least with CDs, I've never received a bad one from 1000s I've purchased from ebay and Amazon. 

Have over 500cds in 100 packs and my original purchased in a cd bookshelf as wide and high as I...what do i do...cant choose and like to relax...fisher 24 disc player is amazing but you can only listen to the same music so many times.SO...
Over the last few months i began to stream the audio digital channel from our dstv/sat system to av receivers.One in the lounge and one in the workshop.The digital transmission is superb and brings any system to life.The local fm channels are also on sat and are now a pleasure to listen to..many djs turn the mic up and the distorted modulation is now a thing of the past..as well as our crappy analog towers.