No laws of electronics or physics have been brokenHel-loo! They’re all broken with all the voodoo speak that’s going on here, especially with your regards to them being directional in AC mains.
Cheers George
Synergistic Red Fuse ...
I installed a SR RED Quantum fuse in my ARC REF-3 preamp a few days ago, replacing an older high end fuse. Uhh ... for a hundred bucks, this little baby is well worth the cost. There was an immediate improvement upon installation, but now that its broken in (yes, no kidding), its quite remarkable. A tightening of the focus, a more solid image, and most important of all for my tastes, a deeper appreciation for the organic sound of the instruments. Damn! ... cellos sound great! Much improved attack on pianos. More humanistic on vocals. Bowed bass goes down forever. Next move? .... I'm doing the entire system with these fuses. One at a time though just to gauge the improvement in each piece of equipment. The REF-75se comes next. I'll report the results as the progression takes place. Stay tuned ...
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Any comments from anyone else who has tried these fuses?
Showing 50 responses by georgehifi
uberwaltz105 posts03-08-2017 2:03pmI only have one question...hifi was my original registered name back in 2006 but for some reason got bugged so I had to change to lofi, thanks to Tammy at Audiogon saw the stupid comments I was receiving with that name so they saw fit to resurrect my registered old one for me as that’s what it is on every other audio forum I’m on also. No sinister things going on, as I’m sure some are thinking. Cheers George HIFI |
Paul McGowan of PS Audio has articles on their site that states since the fuse is the bottleneck of the entire .So are all the fine circuit board tracks that lead to and from the fuse and every thing else. why not rip them out too and turn them around the other way, and cryo them while your at it. Cheers George |
Georgelofi ... but both Bob and fleschler use SR Black fuses in their systems.Really!!! good luck to them, would have got the same result with just a new 10c fuses. This is what happens to that fine 10mm-20mm wire inside a fuse, from new left, to a quite a few cycles of turn on turn off over a year or so on the right. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg Also Georgelofi, I have noticed that you haven’t posted any pictures of your system.It’s documented all through Audiogon, go fish you’ll be surprised. Cheers George |
"The fuse element is made of zinc, copper, silver, aluminium, or alloys to provide stable and predictable characteristics. The fuse ideally would carry its rated current indefinitely, and melt quickly on a small excess. The element must not be damaged by minor harmless surges of current, and must not oxidise or change its behaviour after possibly years of service." Re-read that last sentence: A fuse can age with inrush currents ect, I believe the fuse mongers are praying on that. Just change your old fuse for the same 10c new one, instead of paying >$100 for a voodoo fuse, that can be a danger if overrated . Cheers George |
"The fuse element is made of zinc, copper, silver, aluminium, or alloys to provide stable and predictable characteristics. The fuse ideally would carry its rated current indefinitely, and melt quickly on a small excess. The element must not be damaged by minor harmless surges of current, and must not oxidise or change its behaviour after possibly years of service."Spelling correction just for you Geoff Re-read that last sentence: A fuse can age with inrush currents ect, I believe the fuse mongers are prying on that. Just change your old fuse for the same 10c new one, instead of paying >$100 for a voodoo fuse, that can be a danger if overrated . Cheers George |
Frankmlsstl656 posts03-14-2017 3:21amin the spirit of this thread, I thought I should warn people to NOT mark directionality on their fuses. The ink or sticker could confuse the electrons, drawing them off-center. The same is true of handling fuses with your bare fingers -- deposited oils from the skin could cause the same problems!jetter305 posts03-14-2017 3:49amIts also important to have the fuse installed by a virgin with no impure thoughts. +1 To all. "The fuse element must not be damaged by minor harmless surges of current, and must not oxidise or change its behaviour after possibly years of service."On a serious note, what these guys are hearing is an old fuse changed for a new one as this fuse manufacturer stated, and you don’t have to spend $100, just get another new 10 cent one, and a good idea to clean the fuse clamps. Cheers George |
a top quality fuse.A top quality >$100 fuse may sound better than an aged fuse as stated, but so will a new 10 cent fuse, as switch on surge currents carbonise, stretch and sag the filament and change it’s characteristics over time with an old fuse. So just install a new 10 cent fuse and save >$100. "The fuse element must not be damaged by minor harmless surges of current, and must not oxidise or change its behaviour after possibly years of service." Cheers George |
I replaced near new SR RED fuses for the SR Blacks and got a real significant further jump in resolution? Shakes head, many times. With all these improvements that fuses have bought, this system must sound better than anyone’s on the whole of Audiogon. I still stick by this if anyone hears a difference: " A top quality >$100 fuse may sound better than an aged fuse as stated, but so will a new 10 cent fuse, as switch on surge currents carbonise, stretch and sag the filament and change it’s characteristics over time with an old fuse. So just install a new 10 cent fuse and save >$100. "The fuse element must not be damaged by minor harmless surges of current, and must not oxidise or change its behaviour after possibly years of service." Cheers George |
Pioneer receiver, two cheap floor standing speakers jammed up against the wall between a big screen TV in an almost bare room. Yeppers ... no improvement from the fuses at all. *lol*I can beat that, my stuffs all from Radio Shack or Tandy as it was know here. Which may even sound better than yours with the voodoo fuses. Cheers George |
nonoiseYes they will degrade as they operate at or near their threshold, just like incandescent light globs do, did you not see what happens to the same fuse over time of constant "switch on surges" It carbonises to a point where it is no longer pliable, sags, stiffens and blows https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg These boutique fuses seem to address the failings of cheap fuses by a more robustIn many cases they are blowing for no reason at all, how is that more reliable? Cheers George |
ignoring repetitive pablum is advisable.Especially when it comes to fuse voodoo, all the advocators are doing is changing an old fuse out for new, this can be done with the same new 10c fuse, no need to spend $100+ for some voodoo one. Just change out your old fuse for the same new, as they do deteriorate with repetitive switch on/off surges over time, just look what happens in the time lapse pics over a few months to the same fuse, when new on the left, few months old on the right after repetitive switch on's. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg Cheers George |
what do you have to lose?Credibility and money, just change your tired old 10c fuse for the same new one, as they do deteriorate over time with on/off surges, as shown in the pic, even the boutique ones, and clean your fuse clamps. "Fuse aging by switching loads The fuse wire gets hot and expands when current flows. At high temperatures, oxidation may happen, which weakens the wire mechanically, and may be electrically, too. Switching on/off a load means the wire is bent each time." https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg Cheers George |
And once again like clockwork, comes the topic shift to bury any negatives, once things are questioned about the voodoo fuses. As almarg mentioned as well, just change your fuse for a well made new one "and clean the clamps". I just used "10c" as a metaphor as an indication that you don’t need to pay >$100 for a voodoo fuse to get a change if your old fuse has deteriorated (pictured). A well made fuse in Australia is also $1-$2 as almarg stated. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg http://www.digikey.com/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139 Cheers George |
Just making sure and will continue to show, to any new fuse recruits that the voodoo fuse proponents are trying to reel in, that they hear what both side of the fence feel for any fuse differences in sound. https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/1406831 Cheers George |
+1 Wolf, All potential fusers need to remember that fuses deteriorate with age from switch on surges (as pictured), and they just need to be replaced with good quality $2 fuse of the same value, as Almarg linked to. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg http://www.digikey.com/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139 Cheers George |
John Curl advocates this one: re-settable fuses They are starting now becoming industry standard as their prices have come down over the last year or so, they are now much cheaper than a good $2 fuse + the fuse holder, and that is a big fact to manufacturers. But there’s no voodoo inside them if you care to investigate. http://uk.farnell.com/pptc-resettable-fuses?searchRef=SearchLookAhead Cheers George |
On my HT system I have an Marantz SR6004 which has two of these resettable fuses in it. The one on the standby transformer during a power blackout blew, instead of resetting. It was a pig to replace as it’s down the bottom of the three stacked boards and I had to remove all the boards and that bottom board to solder in a new one. If it was just a fuse in a clamp holder I could have replaced it easy with long nose pliers without removing anything. How a PTC resettable fuse works http://www.fuzetec.com/upload/images/PTC%20Function_Work_Basic.PNG Cheers George |
It uses a triple layer design with 2 new proprietary componentsAnd a partridge in a pear tree. Outstanding thanks for the insight. This is all fusers need to know. All potential fusers need to remember that fuses deteriorate with age from switch on surges (as pictured), and they just need to be replaced with good quality $2 fuse of the same value, as Almarg linked to. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg http://www.digikey.com/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139 Cheers George |
We get it already And future "gullible" purchasers, deserve to hear both side of the fence, not just the voodoo side, every time they are bought up to be the saviour of good audio sound. And if some here want to turn this "fuse thread" into a "music review thread" can I suggest the "Music Thread" instead of just bumping this one for the hope of more potential fuse sales. https://forum.audiogon.com/topics/music Cheers George |
Paul McGowen of PS Audio expresses his beliefs that improving fuses can lead to improved sound on his site. It’s very well just because of this, not voodoo. This is all fusers need to know. Cheers George |
Such a strong and relentless stance has been taken there’s no way one could ever concede these fuses have any redeeming qualities at all. Negative expectation bias in full glory.Only with pointing those to spend >$100 + on a fuse when the same result can be had by spending $2, because of the original possibly being an "aged" fuse. This is all fusers need to know. All potential fusers need to remember that fuses deteriorate with age from switch on surges (as pictured), and they just need to be replaced with good quality $2 fuse of the same value, as Almarg linked to. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg http://www.digikey.com/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139 Cheers George |
PLEASE give it a restSorry but have to decline that request! As every time voodoo is repetitively presented about these >$100 fuses by fusers, I and hopefully others with even a small amount of technical knowledge will continue to counter it with with our views, and I believe we have the right to do so. Cheers George |
oregonpapaReally!!! this smells, if you have been "ordered" that we are to be left in the dark, then please tell the full "secret" rundown why these magic fuses work to others who are privileged, almarg ect. Let them see if it’s all smoke and mirrors. I will concede and become a believer if someone with electronic knowledge like almarg says it correct, even without knowing the "full rundown".
Cheers George |
Oh dear, no no no, lets not even go there
ptss. Cheers George |
fleschler67 postsHas anyone on this forum broke open an SR black fuse and analyzed what it is made of and constructed?Would be very interesting for one of the blown ones to be sent to almarg for a analysis of what’s inside, but then again SR may have insisted it be sent back to them for the refund or replacement of a bigger amperage one Cheers George |
One of my all-time favorite recordings of any work is the LP I have of Stravinsky’s Firebird Suite (as opposed to the complete ballet that is on the recording you referred to), Robert Shaw conducting the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra, on Telarc.I’ve got 4 or 5 versions, the best by far to these ears is the one, hdcd. https://referencerecordings.com/recording/stravinsky-the-rite-of-spring/ https://referencerecordings.com/recording/stravinsky-the-rite-of-spring/ Cheers George |
"Simply buy several and remain near your gear with a fire extinguisher for a day or two just to be safe" So is claiming a mains fuse is directional, and also dangerous to tell non techs to keep reversing them, until one time they forget to disconnect the plug from the mains, BANG!!! say goodbye to your short and curlies. Cheers George |
but it made sense to me that a cheap fuse could be a bottleneck to good soundWhich qualified electronic technician has said this, to make sense to you?? Or was it just some c**p that came from a voodoo’ist mouth, who has not one bit of technical knowledge. As for a fuse to become a "bottleneck" it needs to become highly resistive to such a point that it would blow with no faults. If it’s not resistive at all, then you may as well have a piece of copper wire soldered in place of the fuse. Cheers George |
geoffkait, does a bear sh*t in the woods, sorry no I can't ask you that, because you can't see the forest through the trees. Read up on AC theory and then you'll understand just how much voodoo bull**** you and others are speaking about fuses being directional when mains AC is involved. Even if they were DC rail fuses, it would be still voodooistic to say they were directional. Now there's something you can try geoffkait, use a dc fuse of the same amp rating instead of an ac fuse, then you may hear something different, I'd be interested in this outcome. Cheers George |
A few posters here actually tried these products and found that they could perceive no sonic changes, or no changes for the better. I totally respect them and their views and I appreciate their contributions to this thread.And this backs what the technical experienced here have been saying all along. So, to put it bluntly, if you have no personal experience with these products, feel free to lurk, or to sincerely ask questions, but otherwise, please save yourself the agita and the wasted keystrokes, and let the rest of us get on with our little hobby....No wasted keystrokes when trying to protect/educate the gullible and their hard earned cash on the voodoo speak that AC fuses have directional sound differences. And unless your a forum cop, I wouldn’t tell the technical here what they can/can’t post when trying to protect the gullible from voodoo. Cheers George |
>$100 bucks for a fuse!!!!!!!!! "
Tell 'im 'e's dreamin'
" .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dik_wnOE4dk Cheers George |
+1 wolf_garcia http://www.infoworld.com/article/2618833/identity-management/cyber-shill-business-is-booming.html Cheers George |
Finally I just installed the fuse with direction along with the flow of electricity and decided to leave it then.Hate to tell you, but AC electricity doesn’t flow, it alternates back and forward 50 or 60 time a second (50hz 60hz) depending which country your in. So the directionality of an ac mains fuses is all "expectation bias". You'd have better cred if you belived in the tooth fairy. This is all potential fusers need to know: "All potential fusers need to remember that fuses deteriorate with age from switch on surges (as pictured), and they just need to be replaced with good quality $2 fuse of the same value, as Almarg linked to. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg http://www.digikey.com/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139 Cheers George |
Fuses - all fuses - have been measured to have lower resistance in one direction than the other.Please post links to proven scientific data on this, not just hearsay. Maybe old fuses that have had many switch-on cycles put through them, sag and get carbon build up, even then it’s doubtful. (see 5 different length of times same fuse, ageing over time first link) For anyone worried that your old fuses have been subjected to too many switch on/off surges. "All potential fusers need to remember that fuses deteriorate with age from switch on surges (as pictured), and they just need to be replaced with good quality $2 fuse of the same value, as Almarg linked to. https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg http://www.digikey.com/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139 Cheers George |