I have had Thiels since '83 starting with a pair of 03a's & a PS Audio Elite integrated Amp. I progressed through 2.2's, 2.3''s and then to 2.4's to which I added a Krell fpb 300 amp, which was wonderful. As a truly sick audiophile, I was not content with perfection, and couldn't resist adding a pair of CS 5's. The Krell did just fine, but oh no, I had to twist off and get a CAT Amplifier, a beast with 1000 plus amps into a 4 ohm load. But it had a damn noisy fan, So I traded both to an audiophile in San Antonio, for a pair of Altec Onken horns and a tube amp and Transcendent tube pre. That ended the arms race, and I have a really smooth system. I still had the 2.4's, which I sold to a guy in Dallas, who is a happy happy camper. Thing is, I now am developing a "no Thiels" twinge and feel lost without a pair of Thiels in my system.
So, thing is, I am wondering if I should get a pair of CS6's on the Gon, or get some 7's on US Audio...But what am I going to do with those really nice (and big!) Onken Altecs!
I need help.
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Jafant,
I used a Krell fpb 300 on my 2.4's, which is very high current and doubles down to 2 ohms or below. The fpb series was made in the early 90's, I think. Mine had fresh caps done at the factory. As these get some use, I'd look for freshly recapped models. The older KSA's are great buys, if they have fresh caps. A Thiel dealer in Amarillo used an old KSA 50 for some CS5's in his bedroom. Not that I'd recommend that. I think for most Thiels the older Krells or Classes are great and are still available online. The KSA's are heaters though! |
I use Thiel power points for rears and power planes as mains, mcs1 center with ss1 sub. I had 2.4's for mains until I sold them. My system is dialed in through the p0x crossover to the pp's & planes and there is more symmetry but I lost the really fine soundtrack music after removing the 2.4's. I have a EAD PM 2000, at over 400 wpc into 5, as amplifier. Great amp, great company.
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I have really enjoyed reviewing the posts in this great thread. It occurs to me that I have a few observations about my long association with these great speakers. The first is that quality power is the most important ingredient in the enjoyment of Thiels ; I say this after realizing that much of the time I was not supplying enough power. When I finally purchased an EAD pm 2000, a 5 channel beast with 400 wpc, I saw what I had been missing. I used the EAD with my 2.4's until I was able to have a separate 2 channel system. Even then, I was underpowered with a Boulder 350 (a budget Boulder)..but when I finally hooked up the fpb 300 Krell...Bam. Magic. I then twisted off and bought a pair of CS 5's, which I found to require an enormous amount of power. I talked to Rob at Thiel, who told me they had an FPB 600 with the CS5i's in the sound room at the factory in Kentucky. I was never able to adequately power the 5's, and I would strongly suggest to anyone tempted to buy these at 2000 bucks or so should factor in the cost of a quality (very)high powered amp: I think the Krell 300 would have been better than what I used to replace it: a CAT 500 wpc amp. This was power, but not quality power, and it had a noisy fan, which bugged me. I am now without Thiel 2 channel speakers for the first time since I started this hobby in 1984. I have an all Thiel HT system, as previously mentioned, but now am listening to some big Altec horns atop big Onken cabinets with Altec woofers. I can power these with 25wpc Quicksilver monos, and I do enjoy them. But....that detailed articulate Thiel sound is missing... and I guess I miss it. So I am looking to maybe get some Thiels, and maybe start the arms race again....
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I used Transparent cables; however, after a talk with Roger Sanders, I ordered a pair of Sanders speaker cables and I now use them throughout and have never thought of using anything else.
I have never used Bryston but I am sure they are a good match, as Gary at Thiel spoke highly of Bryston, and he now works for them.
Bryston is not as high current as Krell, Classe or Pass, but I have heard them with Thiel and was very impressed. In fact, I almost bought a Bryston integrated to use with my 2.4's. I wish I had, as I wasted some time and money with the baby Boulder before getting the Krell.
Thanks for the thread jafant! |
I was able to listen to the Bryston integrated (model escapes me) at a dealer showroom in Santa Fe. It was paired with Thiel 2.7's and sounded wonderful.
I wish I had listened to my ears!
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On another topic, has anyone heard both CS5i's or 5's, and CS7.2's? If so, your impressions of these two big Thiels?
I'm considering the 7.2's at present. |
I used Audioquest cabling for my earlier 2.2's & 2.3's. I switched to Transparent cables when my Thiel dealer (extinct now!) sold me some in the 1500 range. Later on I had a chance to compare much cheaper Sanders cables and interconnects. They sounded at least as good, and were much cheaper. Now I use Sanders for much of my needs except for when I switch to tubes and don't have balanced connections. Then it's Audioquest as I have sold my Transparent. Call Roger Sanders and order a pair if you don't like them, he'll take them back and refund your dough. I just call him and tell him how long and single ended or balanced and a week later I get a box of cables! Viola!
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I have just bought a pair of CS6's, which brings me back into the fold after a year long fling with tubes and horns. Any suggestions for an Amplifier? I'm looking in the 3-5k range,
Lets hear it guys!
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I enjoyed the input guys. I am inclined to pick up a Krell fpb 300cx for the 6's.An fpb Krell worked great with my 2.4's--; despite not blowing my dress up with the 5i's..I like the Pass amps but have not heard them with the Thiel like I have the Krell.
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Hello Guys,
I have been too busy to post lately, so was glad to see the many new offerings here by way of Thiel advice and knowledge. By the way, the Houston store was Audio Concepts, like the Dallas store, but no connection. It was a wonderful store, with two floors of audio gear and listening rooms. I heard my first Magnapans there, as well as the big vandersteens. The only place I've been lately with B&M stores is Denver, home of RMAF, which I was fortunate to attend. I have had 5i's, which I got rid of because I couldn't find the right power. Dave is a fount of knowledge on these speakers. I may have tried the DR. 9's. I've had 2.2's, 2.3's, 2.4's (my opinion the best speaker of reasonable size) and 5i's. I now believe I underpowered my previous Thiels.I have recently acquired CS 6's, which were damaged on delivery by Freighters and Craters, which I do not recommend. As I live in remote west Texas, I am finding repair of damage to be especially difficult. Anyway, I am going to power these otherwise beautiful 6's with Krell FPB 250 monoblocks, which I am buying from Daryl in Cleveland, a very knowledgable dealer with a great deal of experience with Thiels. I got the CS6's from him, at a great price. He discouraged me from shipping them, but I did it anyway,
After a year with tubes and high efficiency speakers, I am glad to be back in the Thiel fold. More to come, I'm sure! |
I agree with the high current on the Thiels, Dave. I had a Krell fpb 300 on the 2.4's, and they were fantastic! I had tried a Classe older model on the 2.3's, I think. Don't recall if it was D9. Daryl Prowell is my guy's name in Cleveland. Daryl is a hands on dealer, uses the old fashioned telephone. He gave me a terrific price on the CS6's, was not enthusiastic about shipping them so I used Craters and Freighters. Bad Idea. It cost me over 800 bucks to get them here, only with a fork lift hole in the top of the Cardboard container built by C&F to save $ I guess. Resulted in a dent in the top of one of the speakers. Renee at C&F Cleveland located a guy in Midland to fix the dent. Long story short, he had a stroke during the repair process, and things are, shall we say, up in the air. I went by the little warehouse and looked at the work and was not happy. So I will get them back next week, and will find someone local who has since been recommended to me. Meanwhile Daryl will ship me the Krell Monos and I will send him my Quicksilver tube mini mites & some money, then continue to try to repair the damage done.
I think Rob is a great resource, but I would think his repair including shipping from out here at the edge of the world would be pushing 2k.
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I'm looking at tube preamps to match with my Krell fpb250 monos & Thiel CS6's; live_lemming how do you like your VK3ix pre? I have heard very nice things about that particular model. There is one on
'gon for 1700. I'm looking at well into the 2,000's for ARC or CJ's.
I might point out to the Pass guys that I have had great luck with Krell running 2.4's and am pleased with the 250's on the big 6's..
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I'm shopping for another tube pre for my CS6's, last_lemming, so thanks for your input re the BAT3ix; that particular model is available I think on Audiogon. As for the Trump-priced Classic, I would think it would indeed sound as wonderful as it looks! My 6's are doing very nicely with my Krell fpb 250m monoblocks. And a plain old fpb 300 was fantastic on my 2.4's. Highly recommend Krell for the high current needed to drive the later Thiels. Of all the Thiels I've owned, the 6's are my favorites. Can't wait to try either a passive preamp (ordered a Schitt Saga) or that BAT 3x or ix. I'm also going to try the Lightspped Attenuator just for fun. I presently have a Transcendent Grounded Grid with the Krell monos into the CS6's. But who wants to spend just over a thousand bucks on a tube preamp? Must not sound as nice as BAT or AR or CJ....right? I'll know soon enough. So far the biggest bargain in Audio was the Grounded Grid. Maybe the Schitt will be an even greater bargain! |
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Hey guys, I haven't posted in awhile, as I've been revising my separate HT system. Unfortunately, I sold my 2.4's to Bob in Dallas. I had the misapprehension that they were wasted as mains in HT duty.
Wrong.
I have Thiel power planes in wall right & left front, with Thiel MCS1 center and powerpoint rears; the sub is a Thiel SS1.
But Now the center MCS 1 dominates the smaller powerplanes, so I was thinking to get some thiel 2 series mains, like the 2.2 or 2.3..The 2.4's are scarce, and expensive. Two more MCS1's would be killer, but are too high(over 3200 on ebay). I think the 1.5's are not enough, and of course my CS6's are firmly ensconced in my 2 channel system. They would be ridiculous anyway in my HT system. So, I figure the best deal would be 2.2's, which I had for over 10 years before going up to 2.3's and then the 2.4's. Any ideas, guys?
Yeah, I know. Bite the bullet, admit I screwed up, and find some more 2.4's!
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Thanks robin I will give the PCS a shot. The MCS 1 is a killer center but it has to have the right supporting cast. Concur also on the inwall speakers, especially the front ones. My power points are ok, as they are more directional. With the mains, a show with YoYo Ma sounded shrill..Don't see many PCS, will try Ebay, even though I have already given them enough money recently.
I don't see anything wrong with trying 2.2's or 2.3's either... |
Well I just picked up a pair of very nice cherry 2.4's for my HT setup! I had sold my previous pair after wrongfully decding they were too much speaker for the LR mains. I was left with powerplanes to go with an MCR1 center and two PowerPoint rears. The powerplanes were outmatched and overshadowed by the big MCR1, and I was getting too much center. I"m looking forward to enjoying soundtracks again.
My 2 channel setup has CS6's matched with a pair of Krell FPB 250 monoblocks. My stereo room is large, but complicated by a fireplace on the right wall. I like to sit about 12' back, with the 6's about 7 1/2 feet apart. The back walls about 58" and sidewalls more than that. I'm fooling with various sources, including a Thorens long base modded by Vinyl Nirvana, and an old Classe DAC 1 & PS Audio Lambda transport; I'm starting to stream Tidal via Sonos Connect through the DAC 1, as well. Tidal has Hi Fi streaming, and its real convenient.
I got the 2.4's instead of a new DAC, so I guess I'll continue to upscale the HT by tinkering with the SS1. No, I don't have any speakers but Thiel; except for the year I spent recently with the big Onken Altecs, Thiels are all I've ever owned.
As I begin to downsize, the sweet spot Thiel 2.4's may end up as my last and final pair.. |
The 2.4's were on Audiogon under "new today" and I snapped them up for 2k. They are a one owner pair, cherry, in very nice condition. The speaker caps are not even dented. It'll be fun to compare them to the CS6's.
Does anyone know if Rob is still refinishing thiels? At this price, I could even consider getting them refinished.. |
Prof,
How far apart do you have your 3.7's, and how close are you? I have my CS6's 8ft apart and I'm 12 feet back. I've tried other positions, but this seems to suit me. Speakers are about 56" out from rear wall.
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Glad to hear that Prof; I'm happily listening to the soundtrack album of "I'm Not There" a 2007 movie of Dylans' life as seen through different characters eyes.. 2 disks of some great interpretations of Dylan's songs..
I've settled in at 8 ft apart and 10.5 feet from the speakers. The soundstage is spot on behind the CS6's...
My work is done!
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Prof, I'm running out of cable when I move these CS6's to me: I guess I need to move to them. Also, moving these 140 lb beasts is not an easy task! I do like them further from the back wall: now I have them 63" from the back walls & 8ft apart. My room is 27' x 18 with two big skylights and a fireplace! How's that for room dynamics? I really like these 6's. I see no need to spring for 3.7's; I have noticed my bass improving with the move. The more room behind the speakers, the more bass I'm getting.
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I'm enjoying the thread this evening; It looks as though a lot more 3.6's were sold than CS6, as I don't see many in this forum who have the 6's. At present I'm listening to Cannonball Adderly through my CS6's powered by Krell fpb 250 monoblocks. The bass /vocal blend in "Cannon Reloaded" is jazz club real. I've had all the bigger Thiels except the 7.2's and 3.6.: and I am fine with that. My CS6's will pass with my estate. In fact, I may just bury them with me. When the wife is away, how loud and late will I play! |
I recently sold a Thiel SS1 sub to a friend. He tells me the sub is continuously blowing its own fuses. He's replaced the power cord, changed the source cable, changed out the surge protector, even tried it on another wall with a different outlet. Short of sending it out to Rob Gillum(so glad we now have that option!) any ideas? |
Hey Guys, I am lurking around the forum, despite having sold all my gear, including a pair of CS6's and 2.4's, in a frenzy of "downsizing". I now maintain two houses, one in Taos, and a "garden home" in Midland, neither of which has any sounds at all.
disper, I never found anything that would drive my CS5's;
I am now starting over, and I might as well begin with an amp. I'll take a look at the Coda, for sure.
I will say that the best sound I ever got was my 2.4's with the fpb 300 Krell. |
Tomthiel,
My experience is exactly as you say; Thiels need high current power. My 2.4’s woke up when I hooked up an fpb 300 Krell. I had 2.2’s for years, then 2.3’s and finally 2.4’s. I am convinced that I under powered them all, even with the PM 2000 EAD, which was not a high current amp. I used Krell 250 monos with CS6’s which worked well,
I think I just talked myself out of a pair of 3.5’s, as I realized I need to get a high current amp, despite the good price for the 3.5’s.
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I’m looking at a pair of Thiel 1.5‘s vs. a pair of 3.5’s for the same money.. I can pick up the 3.5’s in Houston, which ain’t close, as this is Texas. the smaller guys have to be shipped.
Room is Trapezoid shaped with speakers at 8’ wall facing a 20’ back wall, 15’ wide, about 12 ‘ to the listening position, room is 20’ long. Have not heard either one, but have owned a number of Thiels.
Which one should I get? Haven’t heard either one. I know the 1.5’s are smaller. I’ve had all the 2’s and the 5 & 6. |
I've been struggling along trying to absorb as much as I can from the great discussion thus far, and the campfire is indeed blazing!
I'm remembering my first Thiel, which was an 03A. I bought them along with a PS Audio Elite, both of which I kept for many years and lots of moves.
Having sold all my HT and 2 channel stuff, I'm starting over in a new smaller place. However, I seem to have a good sized listening room, but with a towering cathedral ceiling. I've been counseled in this forum to abandon thoughts of a 1.5 or 1.6, so was about to settle on a pair of 3.5's with the equalizer. But wait-there suddenly appears on the horizon a pair of CS 7's. For a very good price. And he'll even ship them! Please tell me they are too big. The only Thiels I have not owned are the 7 series and the 1 series. The price is less than a 2.4 and close to the last pair of 2.3's I saw listed. ...
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Tomthiel,
That is exciting about the 7’s and the possible upgrade path. If I hadn’t needed to downsize I would have stopped at the cs6’s. I will take a serious look at the 7’s now on sale. Assuming they are legit, my peculiar room might just be fine for them. Remember the cathedral ceilings of the 80’s? That’s my room.
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Following this thread with great interest, if not always understanding,.
I realized that I still have a Thiel Passive Subwoofer crossover modified for 2.4 mains and mcs1 center. I have sold my thiel speakers, so have no use for it, but maybe somebody would. I wonder if Rob modifies these at his new company.
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