Been there, done that! Well, not me personally - especially now that I’m free from the house AC altogether 🕺 - but cryod Hubble outlets, cryod Romex, and cryod circuit breakers, even entire audiophile grade panels, were sold 15 years ago. You could also have had your Romex broken in on the Cable Cooker. Of course, the enterprising audiophile can do all these things himself today. Hel-loo! Speaking of which, anybody cryo his high end fuses? I kinda doubt the manufacturers have the time or inclination.
Why don't amplifier Companies use high end fuses?
My equipment - Raven Integrated Reflection MK2 tube amp 58wpc. / Lumin A-1 DAC Streamer / Synology NAS / Isotex Aquarius Power Conditioner / Furutech Rhodium Plug / Sonus Faber Amati Homage Tradition speakers.
I have read thousands of comments on upgraded fuses improving the performance of sound. I am very open minded but not sold either way. So, the question I have is....if fuses were so important, than why don't Amplifier companies all install them as OEM equipment? To me, if they are as good as people say, that would provide companies who use them a competitive advantage?
Every High End Audio store I go to in Phoenix have told me it does not make a difference and is a waste of money. For the record, I have fuses purchased at an automotive store for under $10 and I think my sound is awesome. The Company that built my amp tested the Synergistic Fuses and he emphatically said there was no difference.
If I were to try a fuse for fun, given my equipment, what would your recommendation be to try?
I have read thousands of comments on upgraded fuses improving the performance of sound. I am very open minded but not sold either way. So, the question I have is....if fuses were so important, than why don't Amplifier companies all install them as OEM equipment? To me, if they are as good as people say, that would provide companies who use them a competitive advantage?
Every High End Audio store I go to in Phoenix have told me it does not make a difference and is a waste of money. For the record, I have fuses purchased at an automotive store for under $10 and I think my sound is awesome. The Company that built my amp tested the Synergistic Fuses and he emphatically said there was no difference.
If I were to try a fuse for fun, given my equipment, what would your recommendation be to try?
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kosst_amojan The reason you can’t measure feet and springs is the same reason you can’t measure the difference a fuse makes. It’s because it makes no difference. Those who claim it does bare the obligation to prove it and so far there’s no proof. It’s just your mind telling you that expensive must sound better so you hear it. >>>>Wow! Hey! I don’t think I’ve seen anyone make such a uh, bold statement in years. Maybe you should consider changing hobbies. I don’t think this particular hobby suits your temperament or scientific inclination. Didn’t you get the memo? There is no obligation for anyone to prove anything. |
kosst_amojan .... you can’t measure the difference a fuse makes. It’s because it makes no difference. Those who claim it does bare the obligation to prove it and so far there’s no proof.Pardon me, but no one here owes you anything at all. No one here is obligated to prove anything to you at all. No one here is obligated to conform to your notions.
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kosst_amojanThis explains how components with same measurements can sound different. Thanks Julian Hirsch! |
kosst_amojan @cleedsSorry, but no on this site owes you scientific proof of anything. That doesn’t grant you permission to abuse them on this forum. Of course, that hasn’t stopped you in the past. That’s why moderators have deleted so many of your posts here. You might want to read this group's terms of service. |
Of course it should be pointed out Julian Hirsch is the poster boy for people who cannot hear and who rant about measurements. No offense to anyone living or dead. Or undead. 🧟♂️ The reason (of course) is because amps that measure the same actually do not (rpt not) sound the same. Maybe to the average Joe, they do. There are too many variables. You want proof? OK. Take any amp, replace it’s fuse with a high end fuse, and it will sound better than an identical amp but one with the original stock fuse. Unless the person is deaf, naturally. Yet both amps measure exactly the same. You could do the same thing with better capacitors. Or better speaker cables. Follow? |
Take any amp, replace it's fuse with a high end fuse, and it won't change at all and will sound exactly like the identical amp with its normal fuse. If the listener knows which amp has the high end fuse, that amp will seem to be better as, after all, it must be…right? To save time and money, just tell people there's a high end fuse in their gear and they'll know it's better even though it's not, and people save money and are happy. |
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I like bait. Bait is tasty. Mmmmmm...🐟. By the way you got the story wrong. The Japanese amp was an ultra low THD amp and was compared to a much higher THD tube amp and the tube amp was judged to be much better sounding. But that test had nothing to do with Julian Hirsch, although it’s a good case for the anti measurement crowd. 😀 I am not here to debate either. |
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kosst_amojan " Then don’t get upset when somebody calls you a liar for passing opinion as fact when you can’t back it up. " You seem to want to control the discussion here and suppress with the application of fear the extent to which others can express themselves when such expressions conflict with your convictions but this is not fair everyone here is entitled to their opinion and their is no reason for you to use such threats. You obviously have limited experience with many of the concepts, materials, and products discussed here which is fine when under those specific circumstances you avoid your pronouncements made against others who’s experience, knowledge and expertise surpasses you’re own. You jump to accusations of liar, fraud, and "snake oil" when confronted with technology, processes, and implementations for which you cannot fathom a scientific explanation by referencing your physics 101 textbook when you should be engaging in scientific exploration instead of personal attack. The many deleted posts in this thread are a reflection of the esteemed moderators excercising best practices, sound judgement, and prudent efforts to allow all to post here without fear of name calling, reprisals or personal attack and we should all be grateful for there insistence that this forum remain open, free, and welcoming to all who are unwilling for there own sound reasons to bend to the arbitrary, capricuous, and unilateral dictates of those who cloak themselves in the cloth of science of which there understanding, knowledge, and fluency is so stunted. |
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12 Angry Men redux Juror #10: Don’t give me that. I’m sick and tired of facts! You can twist ’em anyway you like, you know what I mean? Juror #10: Six to six... I’m telling you, some of you people in here must be out of your minds. Juror #10: [interrupting] You didn’t prove it at all. What’re you talking about? What we we have here, folks, is an excellent example of what I like to call the Backfire Effect. Huh?, you ask. The Backfire Effect is a psychological phenomenon produced in the mind when one’s beliefs or long held ideas are challenged or contradicted. What frequently happens is that the more the person is challenged and the more evidence is presented the more tightly he holds on to his beliefs. The Backfire Effect is not exactly the same thing as stubbornness or refusal to admit defeat but is a little more subtle. Rational wiki “”What should be evident from the studies on the backfire effect is you can never win an argument online. When you start to pull out facts and figures, hyperlinks and quotes, you are actually making the opponent feel as though they are even more sure of their position than before you started the debate. As they match your fervor, the same thing happens in your skull. The backfire effect pushes both of you deeper into your original beliefs.” That’s why you will never see a died in the wool naysayer say, “Well, folks, I finally tried such and such and it actually made quite a nice change to the sound. I admit I was wrong.” 😛 They’d rather fight than switch. It’s a scene right out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. |
Paul McGowan President of PS Audio has a nice video discussing audio grade fuses and agrees they improve the sound. http://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/audiophile-fuses/ David Pritchard |
Sorry to dredge up an old post, but @geoffkait cracks me up sometimes. This is just about the dumbest argument I've ever heard. You are paying a manufacturer for multi-thousand dollar amplifiers, and you think they are too stupid to include a part that would be better sounding? Just because they are too dumb to realize it? Quite obviously it's a cost decision, and as someone else said, if it sounds great with a cheap fuse, why not let the buyer choose what they want? I, for one, refuse to give money to an engineering firm that I think isn't too smart. That said, I'm a doubter on the fuse thing, but I have just ordered a pair of Padis fuses to check it out. The only way I'll know is to try.
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The diatribe on the "backfire effect" is also funny. You realize you are totally describing yourself, don't you? I'm a naysayer on the power cord thing, so based on your conjecture that you post as if it were fact, I wouldn't try one, and if I did, I would not admit it helped. Well, I did buy a Signal Cable power cable. After the first for my amp, I got a second for my preamp. So, I admit it did help, and I'm keeping both. I'm not trying to fight with you, Geoff, but sometimes your arguments make me laugh, and I just had to point this one out. Sorry, and hope you can see the humor in it. |
"Because they know better and are technicians " Well what I do know is that engineers and technicians often talk rubbish, and have ears that demonstrate that their ears seem to be pointless. And if anyone writes that studios have kit a or b so must be good, then that is even more rubbish. If they knew more than not a lot, there would not be so many bad recordings out there. But back to the original issue, I recently bought a ps audio power regenerator which came with a stock power cable, and the instructions stated that although a stock power cable was included, they recommended "better" ones should be used as they would improve the quality. So an item that cost rrp around £2,900 uses a cord that cost £2 and comes with a recommendation!? As said above, it seems to be a marketing decision as to what to include or not. |
Paul McGowan is very transparent about the power cord issue. He, like the vast majority of audio entrepreneurs, brings gear to market at a specific price point. He includes a good, heavy gauge power cord with his regenerators but notes that upgrading from that cable can improve the performance of his gear. Additionally, Paul endorses his customers to use resonance/vibration control devices with his regenerators and other gear to further enhance performance |
When I auditioned a pair of Odyssey Audio monoblocks, in my home, I had occasion to remove the covers(with Klaus’s permission). Apparently, Mr Bunge(electronic designer and manufacturer) believes fuses make a difference, given the amps had all the fuse holders(mains and rails) stuffed with HIFI Tuning’s products. Don’t know if he sells them equipped that way though. |
That's what you're impressed with? Did you even read the specs on that stuff? I'm looking at the Stratos Mono. They claim 120 amp current delivery. Through 6.3 amp fuses? With a 400VA transformer? Not for very long if at all! To sustain the kind of current output would mean rail voltages sagging to 3.2V. He's calling it out as 180 watts into 8 ohm. That suggests he's running 32V secondaries off the transformer for rectified 40V rails. That figures out to 4.74 amp. To keep the 6.3 amp fuses from popping at 2 ohm means it'll only put 79 watts on the outputs. Here's the bottom line. That amp is built to a budget, most obviously. It couldn't have cost much more that $500-600 to build. It seems to me to be pretty ridiculous to spend 10-20% of the build budget on fuses when that same money would buy a much larger transformer which would make a vastly more meaningful difference. It's very likely that the fuses make a difference because that's the exact kind of anemic power supply that would be prone to minor perturbations. I know I've said this many times before. For comparison, my little home brew amp is 31wpc and has a 600VA toroidal with 24V secondaries for 32V DC and it will drive 300 watts into a 2 ohm load without a hiccup. |
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